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Kalashnikov · 02-09-2021, 08:55 AM

My 2019 Flying Cloud has never been able to "lock up" the brakes when trying to dial in the correct gain settings from a controller. Every manual and setup guide says "Set your desired gain and test with the manual slider, pick the gain that almost locks up the brakes."

I can always go to gain=10.0 and still never lock up the brakes.

Then it's always "Well, adjust your trailer brakes."

Look in the FC manual, they auto adjusting in the 2019 model.

What to do? Should I even care? Thanks in advance.

FWIW I can still get sufficient braking power, I don't really care if I can lock them up or not. On my Tekonsha P3 I used a gain of 7.5. On my Tundra integrated controller I use 5.0

DCPAS · 02-09-2021, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalashnikov

My 2019 Flying Cloud has never been able to "lock up" the brakes when trying to dial in the correct gain settings from a controller. Every manual and setup guide says "Set your desired gain and test with the manual slider, pick the gain that almost locks up the brakes."

I can always go to gain=10.0 and still never lock up the brakes.

Then it's always "Well, adjust your trailer brakes."

Look in the FC manual, they auto adjusting in the 2019 model.

What to do? Should I even care? Thanks in advance.

FWIW I can still get sufficient braking power, I don't really care if I can lock them up or not. On my Tekonsha P3 I used a gain of 7.5. On my Tundra integrated controller I use 5.0

You're mixing two different adjustments. The "auto adjustment" you reference (which I think is really called self adjusting) is a mechanism in the brake assembly that moves the brake linings closer to the drum when the linings wear. It has nothing to do with your brake controller.

The references to "adjust your brakes" is to your brake controller.

Kalashnikov · 02-09-2021, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCPAS

You're mixing two different adjustments. The "auto adjustment" you reference (which I think is really called self adjusting) is a mechanism in the brake assembly that moves the brake linings closer to the drum when the linings wear. It has nothing to do with your brake controller.

The references to "adjust your brakes" is to your brake controller.

I'm not mixing them. It's like this:
[1] Adjust your braked controller gain (I'm at the MAX setting of 10, still nowhere near lock)
Since that failed...
[2] Adjust your brakes

Airstream has blessed me with "Nev-R-Adjust" brakes which implies that they never, ever need adjustment. It's those that I'm trying to adjust.

I think the name actually means "Always check these brakes, they never actually self-adjust."

Found some links:
https://www.etrailer.com/question-62778.html

https://olivertraveltrailers.com/for...us-discussion/

Annoying that I must tear apart a trailer that's only a year old.

DCPAS · 02-09-2021, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalashnikov

I'm not mixing them. It's like this:
[1] Adjust your braked controller gain (I'm at the MAX setting of 10, still nowhere near lock)
Since that failed...
[2] Adjust your brakes

Airstream has blessed me with "Nev-R-Adjust" brakes which implies that they never, ever need adjustment. It's those that I'm trying to adjust.

I think the name actually means "Always check these brakes, they never actually self-adjust."

Found some links:
https://www.etrailer.com/question-62778.html

https://olivertraveltrailers.com/for...us-discussion/

Annoying that I must tear apart a trailer that's only a year old.

Well, there is still an adjusting wheel on self adjusting brakes if you really want to do that.

LNBright · 02-09-2021, 10:23 AM

I don't know about AS's brakes, but on the old drum brakes on other vehicles I've had that were auto adjusting, they way they did that was they would tighten up as you braked while backing up. My suggestion would be to get on a open flat parking lot where you can safely back up for aways, applying the brake some as you go. It might not work on an AS, but that would be a simple-enough first attempt to see?

Kalashnikov · 02-09-2021, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LNBright

I don't know about AS's brakes, but on the old drum brakes on other vehicles I've had that were auto adjusting, they way they did that was they would tighten up as you braked while backing up. My suggestion would be to get on a open flat parking lot where you can safely back up for aways, applying the brake some as you go. It might not work on an AS, but that would be a simple-enough first attempt to see?

Yes, but I've already done that dozens of times while camping. Don't see how that would fix the brakes.

Found a good video on how to take these apart. Note that the first component that comes off after the wheel is a plate that says "Never Lube."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKJo3rgN1cM

Simple enough but I'll need to buy some new tools.

LNBright · 02-09-2021, 10:33 AM

Ok: looking, it seems they auto-adjust both forward and backward, no backing up specifically needed. But, you can manually adjust them: https://www.etrailer.com/question-62778.html

Kalashnikov · 02-09-2021, 10:37 AM

Here's a video showing where all four of the "Nevr-Adjust" brakes (meaning never need to adjust...) fail to adjust:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jgV5XpipCg

Utter crap

**GCinSC2** · 02-09-2021, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LNBright

I don't know about AS's brakes, but on the old drum brakes on other vehicles I've had that were auto adjusting, they way they did that was they would tighten up as you braked while backing up. My suggestion would be to get on a open flat parking lot where you can safely back up for aways, applying the brake some as you go. It might not work on an AS, but that would be a simple-enough first attempt to see?

Incorrect information.

Please see Dexter page 6 regarding Self Adjusting Feature in the forward direction.

https://www.dexteraxle.com/docs/defa...s.pdf?sfvrsn=2

**GCinSC2** · 02-09-2021, 10:56 AM

In this thread I detailed adjustment and inspection of Dexter Self Adjusting Brakes. This was done in my driveway on a 2017.

https://www.airforums.com/forums/f43...-r-194437.html

For basic tune up of adjustment on SA's it is not necessary to pull the wheel, only raise it to allow spinning it by hand to verify adjustment.

For any physical repairs, cleaning or lubrication of components, shoes to backing plate contact etc, yes pulling the drum assy is required.

Gary

**GCinSC2** · 02-09-2021, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalashnikov

Yes, but I've already done that dozens of times while camping. Don't see how that would fix the brakes.

Found a good video on how to take these apart. Note that the first component that comes off after the wheel is a plate that says "Never Lube."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKJo3rgN1cM

Simple enough but I'll need to buy some new tools.

Kalashnikov,

From the video. It is only necessary to remove the small snap ring. That allows the nut to be removed but it is not necessary to remove the large snap ring unless you are replacing the Never Lube bearing assembly.

Gary

LNBright · 02-09-2021, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GCinSC2

Incorrect information.

Please see Dexter page 6 regarding Self Adjusting Feature in the forward direction.

https://www.dexteraxle.com/docs/defa...s.pdf?sfvrsn=2

Yes, I did look it up and noted that they adjust both forward and backward, not just backward as I initially guessed, and posted my correction. My apologies for not getting it corrected in the original post.

Kalashnikov · 02-09-2021, 11:58 AM

Found a video that shows the location of the two holes required for the manual adjustment, see the very end:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBAVtQh5N_k

Quote:

Originally Posted by GCinSC2

In this thread I detailed adjustment and inspection of Dexter Self Adjusting Brakes. This was done in my driveway on a 2017.

https://www.airforums.com/forums/f43...-r-194437.html

For basic tune up of adjustment on SA's it is not necessary to pull the wheel, only raise it to allow spinning it by hand to verify adjustment.

For any physical repairs, cleaning or lubrication of components, shoes to backing plate contact etc, yes pulling the drum assy is required.

Gary

Thanks! Your post seems to go way beyond adjustments. Between your text description and the videos I found this seems like a relatively simple procedure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GCinSC2

Kalashnikov,

From the video. It is only necessary to remove the small snap ring. That allows the nut to be removed but it is not necessary to remove the large snap ring unless you are replacing the Never Lube bearing assembly.

Gary

That's good to know! I won't tear it apart yet, will first try spinning the wheels and find out how each wheel is behaving. I get a "pulsing" from my trailer when slowing down. It has about 6000 miles on it, never expected the brakes to be needing attention at this point.

**GCinSC2** · 02-09-2021, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LNBright

Yes, I did look it up and noted that they adjust both forward and backward, not just backward as I initially guessed, and posted my correction. My apologies for not getting it corrected in the original post.

Leslie,

Thank you.

From reading threads on braking, IMHO it's an overlooked, over blamed, I'm on setting 10 why don't my brakes work kinda topic.

I've been a hands on automotive fixer no I can do it myself guy for a long time. I take pride in that fact. And just finished replacing 3 U-Joints and the center support bearing on my Dodge Ram all steel two piece driveshaft. SFSG knock on wood it's doing just fine.

And while we're near this topic, I'll put a plug in for an inspection I just did on the infamous 7 way plug/receptacle relationship. All of the power and control of your drum brakes goes thru this often neglected connection. Disc brakes just send a signal, coach batteries provide the power. This goes nicely with the brake amperage/voltage meter I made to do the testing for Alan's 2017.

https://www.airforums.com/forums/f23...ns-218499.html

Good brakes, good thing.

Gary

jeffmc306 · 02-09-2021, 01:11 PM

I haven’t had the need to check the brakes on our 2019 Globetrotter yet but after reading this post and watching the videos I will do so this spring.

Self-adjusters are a mechanical device and occasionally fail to work as advertised. In my previous career I was an auto mechanic before disc brakes were widely used and still have my drum brake tools.

Drum brakes require the distance (gap) between the shoes and the drum to be just enough that the shoes don’t drag. If the gap is too large on a hydraulic system, the brake pedal would have more travel before the brakes engage.

This is what’s happening with the trailer’s electric brakes - the gap is too large causing the electric actuator to engage more before the shoes contact the drum. If the gap is too much, the shoes never contact the drum enough to engage. Not a good thing!

Adjusting the gap using the access holes in the rear plate is simple enough as long as the adjusters aren’t frozen. That’s when you’ll need to remove the drum and clean or replace the adjusters.

For the old guys, here’s my AAMCO Brake Caliper, Snap-on spring tool and shoe retainer tool. You’d use the caliper to measure the drum’s inside diameter then adjust the shoes to match before reinstalling the drum. Never thought I’d use them again!

Hiho Silver · 02-09-2021, 01:27 PM

I went to an RV repair center in Coos Bay, Oregon while on the road because of what turned out to be a broken brake wire on one of my wheels. (A warning light was going on and off).

This was a very old and established family owned business,. They were excellent and very knowledgeable. I think he charged me $20 and they had a 1 hour minimum, so more than reasonable, and they had to squeeze me in!

We then discussed setting the gain for my new F150. I too cannot get my brakes to lockup with the factory installed brake controller. The business owner told me that was true of ALL factory installed brake controllers. He told me the only way to eliminate that problem was to install a quality after market brake controller because they are much better than the ones available as factory installs.
He said he couldn’t even get his to work properly and he was towing a smaller trailer.

I’m sure others will correct me (or my RV expert ) if their experiences are different. I’m happy with the way mine works even though I can’t get the wheels to lockup.

**GCinSC2** · 02-09-2021, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffmc306

For the old guys, here’s my AAMCO Brake Caliper, Snap-on spring tool and shoe retainer tool. You’d use the caliper to measure the drum’s inside diameter then adjust the shoes to match before reinstalling the drum. Never thought I’d use them again!

Good stuff! Those are major band aid savers. I have all but the measuring/setting gage. Where's your adjusting tool? Shy, hiding in the tool box.

jeffmc306 · 02-09-2021, 05:20 PM

GCinSC2, I never invested in a brake adjusting spoon! I found a flat blade screwdriver did the job.

Funny side note, our financial advisor has a ‘67 Chevelle Retro-rod and I’ve been donating my old engine related and body tools to him. He’s really getting into it and we’re having fun playing “What’s this tool used for?”.

So far he got my old MAC analog VOM-Dwell meter, Snap-on timing light and an external regulator test tool. He was able to use that one to troubleshoot his alternator!

BayouBiker · 02-09-2021, 05:58 PM

From the posts it's not clear if you determined if the automatic adjusters are bound up or if they are working properly. It's also not clear if the shoe gap is or were properly set. I will say that dexter brakes are paired with the axle so they don't quite lock up when full brake force is applied when the axles are near rated load capacity. It is possible everything is fine and the brakes simply don't lock. My brakes don't lock when fully applying brake force.

**GCinSC2** · 02-09-2021, 06:07 PM

Jeff

My 1970’s Cal Equip ? dwell tach meter and timing light are gone, no clue what happened to them. Real tools.

Brian

Sounds like you might be a candidate for my full function 7 way brake amperage voltage meter tester. Goes between TV and AS reads actual amps & volts and maintains all light circuits. Can even be used while driving if someone is a good driver data dude.

The best thing about these threads is raising brake system awareness. Either hands on or get it checked out.

Gary