Free 7 Day Trial RV GPS App RV Trip Planner Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Free 7 Day Trial ×
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 02-09-2021, 08:55 AM   #1
4 Rivet Member
 
2019 28' Flying Cloud
Dripping Springs , Texas
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 294
2019 FC: "Auto adjust" brakes never need adjustment?

My 2019 Flying Cloud has never been able to "lock up" the brakes when trying to dial in the correct gain settings from a controller. Every manual and setup guide says "Set your desired gain and test with the manual slider, pick the gain that almost locks up the brakes."

I can always go to gain=10.0 and still never lock up the brakes.

Then it's always "Well, adjust your trailer brakes."

Look in the FC manual, they auto adjusting in the 2019 model.

What to do? Should I even care? Thanks in advance.

FWIW I can still get sufficient braking power, I don't really care if I can lock them up or not. On my Tekonsha P3 I used a gain of 7.5. On my Tundra integrated controller I use 5.0
Kalashnikov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2021, 10:03 AM   #2
4 Rivet Member
 
2019 25' Flying Cloud
Houston , Texas
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalashnikov View Post
My 2019 Flying Cloud has never been able to "lock up" the brakes when trying to dial in the correct gain settings from a controller. Every manual and setup guide says "Set your desired gain and test with the manual slider, pick the gain that almost locks up the brakes."

I can always go to gain=10.0 and still never lock up the brakes.

Then it's always "Well, adjust your trailer brakes."

Look in the FC manual, they auto adjusting in the 2019 model.

What to do? Should I even care? Thanks in advance.

FWIW I can still get sufficient braking power, I don't really care if I can lock them up or not. On my Tekonsha P3 I used a gain of 7.5. On my Tundra integrated controller I use 5.0
You're mixing two different adjustments. The "auto adjustment" you reference (which I think is really called self adjusting) is a mechanism in the brake assembly that moves the brake linings closer to the drum when the linings wear. It has nothing to do with your brake controller.

The references to "adjust your brakes" is to your brake controller.
DCPAS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2021, 10:14 AM   #3
4 Rivet Member
 
2019 28' Flying Cloud
Dripping Springs , Texas
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 294
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCPAS View Post
You're mixing two different adjustments. The "auto adjustment" you reference (which I think is really called self adjusting) is a mechanism in the brake assembly that moves the brake linings closer to the drum when the linings wear. It has nothing to do with your brake controller.

The references to "adjust your brakes" is to your brake controller.
I'm not mixing them. It's like this:
[1] Adjust your braked controller gain (I'm at the MAX setting of 10, still nowhere near lock)
Since that failed...
[2] Adjust your brakes

Airstream has blessed me with "Nev-R-Adjust" brakes which implies that they never, ever need adjustment. It's those that I'm trying to adjust.

I think the name actually means "Always check these brakes, they never actually self-adjust."

Found some links:
https://www.etrailer.com/question-62778.html

https://olivertraveltrailers.com/for...us-discussion/

Annoying that I must tear apart a trailer that's only a year old.
Kalashnikov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2021, 10:16 AM   #4
4 Rivet Member
 
2019 25' Flying Cloud
Houston , Texas
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalashnikov View Post
I'm not mixing them. It's like this:
[1] Adjust your braked controller gain (I'm at the MAX setting of 10, still nowhere near lock)
Since that failed...
[2] Adjust your brakes

Airstream has blessed me with "Nev-R-Adjust" brakes which implies that they never, ever need adjustment. It's those that I'm trying to adjust.

I think the name actually means "Always check these brakes, they never actually self-adjust."

Found some links:
https://www.etrailer.com/question-62778.html

https://olivertraveltrailers.com/for...us-discussion/

Annoying that I must tear apart a trailer that's only a year old.
Well, there is still an adjusting wheel on self adjusting brakes if you really want to do that.
DCPAS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2021, 10:23 AM   #5
4 Rivet Member
 
LNBright's Avatar
 
2015 20' Flying Cloud
Kingsport , Tennessee
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 362
I don't know about AS's brakes, but on the old drum brakes on other vehicles I've had that were auto adjusting, they way they did that was they would tighten up as you braked while backing up. My suggestion would be to get on a open flat parking lot where you can safely back up for aways, applying the brake some as you go. It might not work on an AS, but that would be a simple-enough first attempt to see?
__________________
-Leslie
LNBright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2021, 10:33 AM   #6
4 Rivet Member
 
2019 28' Flying Cloud
Dripping Springs , Texas
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 294
Quote:
Originally Posted by LNBright View Post
I don't know about AS's brakes, but on the old drum brakes on other vehicles I've had that were auto adjusting, they way they did that was they would tighten up as you braked while backing up. My suggestion would be to get on a open flat parking lot where you can safely back up for aways, applying the brake some as you go. It might not work on an AS, but that would be a simple-enough first attempt to see?
Yes, but I've already done that dozens of times while camping. Don't see how that would fix the brakes.

Found a good video on how to take these apart. Note that the first component that comes off after the wheel is a plate that says "Never Lube."



Simple enough but I'll need to buy some new tools.
Kalashnikov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2021, 10:33 AM   #7
4 Rivet Member
 
LNBright's Avatar
 
2015 20' Flying Cloud
Kingsport , Tennessee
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 362
Ok: looking, it seems they auto-adjust both forward and backward, no backing up specifically needed. But, you can manually adjust them: https://www.etrailer.com/question-62778.html
__________________
-Leslie
LNBright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2021, 10:37 AM   #8
4 Rivet Member
 
2019 28' Flying Cloud
Dripping Springs , Texas
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 294
Here's a video showing where all four of the "Nevr-Adjust" brakes (meaning never need to adjust...) fail to adjust:




Utter crap
Kalashnikov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2021, 10:49 AM   #9
Slide Out Society #001
 
GCinSC2's Avatar

 
2007 30' Classic S/O
Somewhere , South Carolina
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,459
Quote:
Originally Posted by LNBright View Post
I don't know about AS's brakes, but on the old drum brakes on other vehicles I've had that were auto adjusting, they way they did that was they would tighten up as you braked while backing up. My suggestion would be to get on a open flat parking lot where you can safely back up for aways, applying the brake some as you go. It might not work on an AS, but that would be a simple-enough first attempt to see?
Incorrect information.

Please see Dexter page 6 regarding Self Adjusting Feature in the forward direction.


https://www.dexteraxle.com/docs/defa...s.pdf?sfvrsn=2
__________________
S/OS #001
2005 Dodge Ram 2500 5.9L 6 Speed
16" Michelins, Hi Spec Wheels, Max Brake, Dexter 4 Piston Disc Brakes, Carslile Actuator, Equal-I-Zer, Dill TPMS. Campfire cook.
GCinSC2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2021, 10:56 AM   #10
Slide Out Society #001
 
GCinSC2's Avatar

 
2007 30' Classic S/O
Somewhere , South Carolina
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,459
In this thread I detailed adjustment and inspection of Dexter Self Adjusting Brakes. This was done in my driveway on a 2017.

https://www.airforums.com/forums/f43...-r-194437.html

For basic tune up of adjustment on SA's it is not necessary to pull the wheel, only raise it to allow spinning it by hand to verify adjustment.

For any physical repairs, cleaning or lubrication of components, shoes to backing plate contact etc, yes pulling the drum assy is required.

Gary
__________________
S/OS #001
2005 Dodge Ram 2500 5.9L 6 Speed
16" Michelins, Hi Spec Wheels, Max Brake, Dexter 4 Piston Disc Brakes, Carslile Actuator, Equal-I-Zer, Dill TPMS. Campfire cook.
GCinSC2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2021, 11:02 AM   #11
Slide Out Society #001
 
GCinSC2's Avatar

 
2007 30' Classic S/O
Somewhere , South Carolina
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalashnikov View Post
Yes, but I've already done that dozens of times while camping. Don't see how that would fix the brakes.

Found a good video on how to take these apart. Note that the first component that comes off after the wheel is a plate that says "Never Lube."



Simple enough but I'll need to buy some new tools.
Kalashnikov,

From the video. It is only necessary to remove the small snap ring. That allows the nut to be removed but it is not necessary to remove the large snap ring unless you are replacing the Never Lube bearing assembly.

Gary
__________________
S/OS #001
2005 Dodge Ram 2500 5.9L 6 Speed
16" Michelins, Hi Spec Wheels, Max Brake, Dexter 4 Piston Disc Brakes, Carslile Actuator, Equal-I-Zer, Dill TPMS. Campfire cook.
GCinSC2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2021, 11:57 AM   #12
4 Rivet Member
 
LNBright's Avatar
 
2015 20' Flying Cloud
Kingsport , Tennessee
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 362
Quote:
Originally Posted by GCinSC2 View Post
Incorrect information.

Please see Dexter page 6 regarding Self Adjusting Feature in the forward direction.


https://www.dexteraxle.com/docs/defa...s.pdf?sfvrsn=2
Yes, I did look it up and noted that they adjust both forward and backward, not just backward as I initially guessed, and posted my correction. My apologies for not getting it corrected in the original post.
__________________
-Leslie
LNBright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2021, 11:58 AM   #13
4 Rivet Member
 
2019 28' Flying Cloud
Dripping Springs , Texas
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 294
Found a video that shows the location of the two holes required for the manual adjustment, see the very end:




Quote:
Originally Posted by GCinSC2 View Post
In this thread I detailed adjustment and inspection of Dexter Self Adjusting Brakes. This was done in my driveway on a 2017.

https://www.airforums.com/forums/f43...-r-194437.html

For basic tune up of adjustment on SA's it is not necessary to pull the wheel, only raise it to allow spinning it by hand to verify adjustment.

For any physical repairs, cleaning or lubrication of components, shoes to backing plate contact etc, yes pulling the drum assy is required.

Gary
Thanks! Your post seems to go way beyond adjustments. Between your text description and the videos I found this seems like a relatively simple procedure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GCinSC2 View Post
Kalashnikov,

From the video. It is only necessary to remove the small snap ring. That allows the nut to be removed but it is not necessary to remove the large snap ring unless you are replacing the Never Lube bearing assembly.

Gary
That's good to know! I won't tear it apart yet, will first try spinning the wheels and find out how each wheel is behaving. I get a "pulsing" from my trailer when slowing down. It has about 6000 miles on it, never expected the brakes to be needing attention at this point.
Kalashnikov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2021, 12:11 PM   #14
Slide Out Society #001
 
GCinSC2's Avatar

 
2007 30' Classic S/O
Somewhere , South Carolina
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,459
Quote:
Originally Posted by LNBright View Post
Yes, I did look it up and noted that they adjust both forward and backward, not just backward as I initially guessed, and posted my correction. My apologies for not getting it corrected in the original post.
Leslie,

Thank you.

From reading threads on braking, IMHO it's an overlooked, over blamed, I'm on setting 10 why don't my brakes work kinda topic.

I've been a hands on automotive fixer no I can do it myself guy for a long time. I take pride in that fact. And just finished replacing 3 U-Joints and the center support bearing on my Dodge Ram all steel two piece driveshaft. SFSG knock on wood it's doing just fine.

And while we're near this topic, I'll put a plug in for an inspection I just did on the infamous 7 way plug/receptacle relationship. All of the power and control of your drum brakes goes thru this often neglected connection. Disc brakes just send a signal, coach batteries provide the power. This goes nicely with the brake amperage/voltage meter I made to do the testing for Alan's 2017.

https://www.airforums.com/forums/f23...ns-218499.html

Good brakes, good thing.

Gary
__________________
S/OS #001
2005 Dodge Ram 2500 5.9L 6 Speed
16" Michelins, Hi Spec Wheels, Max Brake, Dexter 4 Piston Disc Brakes, Carslile Actuator, Equal-I-Zer, Dill TPMS. Campfire cook.
GCinSC2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2021, 01:11 PM   #15
Rivet Master
 
jeffmc306's Avatar
 
2019 27' Globetrotter
McHenry , Illinois
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 1,196
Blog Entries: 4
Great post - brought back memories

I havenít had the need to check the brakes on our 2019 Globetrotter yet but after reading this post and watching the videos I will do so this spring.

Self-adjusters are a mechanical device and occasionally fail to work as advertised. In my previous career I was an auto mechanic before disc brakes were widely used and still have my drum brake tools.

Drum brakes require the distance (gap) between the shoes and the drum to be just enough that the shoes donít drag. If the gap is too large on a hydraulic system, the brake pedal would have more travel before the brakes engage.

This is whatís happening with the trailerís electric brakes - the gap is too large causing the electric actuator to engage more before the shoes contact the drum. If the gap is too much, the shoes never contact the drum enough to engage. Not a good thing!

Adjusting the gap using the access holes in the rear plate is simple enough as long as the adjusters arenít frozen. Thatís when youíll need to remove the drum and clean or replace the adjusters.

For the old guys, hereís my AAMCO Brake Caliper, Snap-on spring tool and shoe retainer tool. Youíd use the caliper to measure the drumís inside diameter then adjust the shoes to match before reinstalling the drum. Never thought Iíd use them again!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	C298FA96-E35D-4A12-BF16-61007EECF590.jpg
Views:	11
Size:	454.7 KB
ID:	388368  
__________________
2019 27í Globetrotter FBT Walnut/Dublin Slate
2018 FC23FB
2019 Ram 2500 6.4 Hemi Laramie Blue Ox 1000#
WBCCI# 10258
RETIRED!
jeffmc306 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2021, 01:27 PM   #16
4 Rivet Member
 
Hiho Silver's Avatar
 
2016 27' Flying Cloud
Overland Park , Kansas
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 340
I went to an RV repair center in Coos Bay, Oregon while on the road because of what turned out to be a broken brake wire on one of my wheels. (A warning light was going on and off).

This was a very old and established family owned business,. They were excellent and very knowledgeable. I think he charged me $20 and they had a 1 hour minimum, so more than reasonable, and they had to squeeze me in!

We then discussed setting the gain for my new F150. I too cannot get my brakes to lockup with the factory installed brake controller. The business owner told me that was true of ALL factory installed brake controllers. He told me the only way to eliminate that problem was to install a quality after market brake controller because they are much better than the ones available as factory installs.
He said he couldnít even get his to work properly and he was towing a smaller trailer.

Iím sure others will correct me (or my RV expert ) if their experiences are different. Iím happy with the way mine works even though I canít get the wheels to lockup.
Hiho Silver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2021, 01:39 PM   #17
Slide Out Society #001
 
GCinSC2's Avatar

 
2007 30' Classic S/O
Somewhere , South Carolina
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,459
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffmc306 View Post
For the old guys, hereís my AAMCO Brake Caliper, Snap-on spring tool and shoe retainer tool. Youíd use the caliper to measure the drumís inside diameter then adjust the shoes to match before reinstalling the drum. Never thought Iíd use them again!
Good stuff! Those are major band aid savers. I have all but the measuring/setting gage. Where's your adjusting tool? Shy, hiding in the tool box.
__________________
S/OS #001
2005 Dodge Ram 2500 5.9L 6 Speed
16" Michelins, Hi Spec Wheels, Max Brake, Dexter 4 Piston Disc Brakes, Carslile Actuator, Equal-I-Zer, Dill TPMS. Campfire cook.
GCinSC2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2021, 05:20 PM   #18
Rivet Master
 
jeffmc306's Avatar
 
2019 27' Globetrotter
McHenry , Illinois
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 1,196
Blog Entries: 4
GCinSC2, I never invested in a brake adjusting spoon! I found a flat blade screwdriver did the job.

Funny side note, our financial advisor has a Ď67 Chevelle Retro-rod and Iíve been donating my old engine related and body tools to him. Heís really getting into it and weíre having fun playing ďWhatís this tool used for?Ē.

So far he got my old MAC analog VOM-Dwell meter, Snap-on timing light and an external regulator test tool. He was able to use that one to troubleshoot his alternator!
__________________
2019 27í Globetrotter FBT Walnut/Dublin Slate
2018 FC23FB
2019 Ram 2500 6.4 Hemi Laramie Blue Ox 1000#
WBCCI# 10258
RETIRED!
jeffmc306 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2021, 05:58 PM   #19
Rivet Master
 
2018 25' International
Slidell , Louisiana
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 3,477
From the posts it's not clear if you determined if the automatic adjusters are bound up or if they are working properly. It's also not clear if the shoe gap is or were properly set. I will say that dexter brakes are paired with the axle so they don't quite lock up when full brake force is applied when the axles are near rated load capacity. It is possible everything is fine and the brakes simply don't lock. My brakes don't lock when fully applying brake force.
BayouBiker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2021, 06:07 PM   #20
Slide Out Society #001
 
GCinSC2's Avatar

 
2007 30' Classic S/O
Somewhere , South Carolina
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,459
Jeff

My 1970ís Cal Equip ? dwell tach meter and timing light are gone, no clue what happened to them. Real tools.


Brian

Sounds like you might be a candidate for my full function 7 way brake amperage voltage meter tester. Goes between TV and AS reads actual amps & volts and maintains all light circuits. Can even be used while driving if someone is a good driver data dude.

The best thing about these threads is raising brake system awareness. Either hands on or get it checked out.

Gary
__________________
S/OS #001
2005 Dodge Ram 2500 5.9L 6 Speed
16" Michelins, Hi Spec Wheels, Max Brake, Dexter 4 Piston Disc Brakes, Carslile Actuator, Equal-I-Zer, Dill TPMS. Campfire cook.
GCinSC2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Recommended Servicing of Dexter Never Adjust Brakes/NeverLube Bearings on 2018 FC25 FC25shepski6 General Repair Forum 2 01-26-2021 01:42 PM
Never-Adjust versus Disc Brakes? cru-in Our Community 20 08-15-2019 11:30 AM
1st Year AS FC had Never-Lube Bearings and Never-Adjust Brakes? cru-in Airstream Lifestyle 2 07-29-2019 08:04 AM
16RB never adjust brakes BTempone 2005 and newer - Bambi all models 5 06-18-2019 02:09 PM
"Never adjust" brake is dragging - how do I loosen it? amm3824 Brakes & Brake Controllers 4 08-20-2011 03:12 PM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:38 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.