1957 Brakes

[DDickey]

Is it really impossible to find the shoes for a 1957 22' Custom? I don't want to replace the axle, the only thing it needs are brake shoes, but I'm striking out...

[Action]

You may need to replace the backing plates with shoes and related hardware.

Shopping for shoes based on application will net you a zero from almost any source. Removing the shoes and taking to a trailer store might work. In worst case it may be possible to re-line the existing shoe. Although I am not sure who would do that.

You have leaf springs. Axle replacement is not needed for this spring type as leaf springs can be replaced independently from the axle. Not so with torsion spring axles.

Post a picture.

>>>>>>>>>Action

[Action]

Originally Posted by Action

........ Removing the shoes and taking to a trailer store might work. In worst case it may be possible to re-line the existing shoe. Although I am not sure who would do that.

>>>>>>>Action

You may have to go to Austin to get this done. Like here .... http://www.magnumtrailers.com/

Or maybe go to a NAPA store with the shoe.

>>>>>>>>>>>Action

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by DDickey

Is it really impossible to find the shoes for a 1957 22' Custom? I don't want to replace the axle, the only thing it needs are brake shoes, but I'm striking out...

You can remove the shoes and have them relined.

If you wish to upgrade to new style brakes, you will find that the outer edge of the drums will hit the new backing plates.

If you decide to go with new style brakes, then you must have that outer edge of the drums machined off.

Original parts for your running gear have for most parts vanished.

Andy

[prairieschooner]

Andy is right take the shoes in and have them re-lined if you don't want to replace the axle.
I chose a new axle with electric brakes from Dexter easy enough with the mounting and the benefit was that my '58 was raised a couple of inches, welcome for what is planned for it.

[DDickey]

Do you have a link to a backing plate that will work? This is the five bolt Kelsey-Hayes axle with 2x12 Hadco brakes and six lug drum. I'm still trying to decide whether to just reline the shoes, try a new backing plate or replace everything.

[68Streamline]

I ended up getting new axles with brakes. It would have cost me nearly as much to replace drums and the backing plates.

[DDickey]

Originally Posted by 68Streamline

I ended up getting new axles with brakes. It would have cost me nearly as much to replace drums and the backing plates.

I'm getting prices starting around $400 for a complete axle. I guess I'm struggling with the idea of changing this one out because the shoes are worn. I'm leaning toward relining the shoes at this point.

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by DDickey

I'm getting prices starting around $400 for a complete axle. I guess I'm struggling with the idea of changing this one out because the shoes are worn. I'm leaning toward relining the shoes at this point.

Is that price for a complete regular axle or a complete torsion axle, hub & drums, 12 inch brakes, bearings, grease seals and lug nuts ?

Andy

[DDickey]

Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In

Is that price for a complete regular axle or a complete torsion axle, hub & drums, 12 inch brakes, bearings, grease seals and lug nuts ?

Andy

That's the lowest over-the-phone quote for a 3500 lb fully loaded 4" drop axle 70.5" HF with 12" brakes. 70.5" seems to be an odd measurement, and they go up from there.

[DDickey]

I can re-line the brake shoes for $22ea, $88 total. I should probably replace the magnets for about $100 (not absolutely necessary). Original setup, fully functional and would probably last awhile, but it feels like I'm delaying the inevitable. Roughly $200 total.

I can replace the backing plates and modify the drum, but I don't really know what I'm getting into with this one. Could be a mess. Maybe $200 when all is said and done?

I can replace everything for about $400

Hmmmmmmmmmm.......

[markdoane]

Another thing to consider is whether the old drums need to be turned. If the armature face is scored it will cost extra to get that done, above and beyond just turning the brake surface.
I would get the new axle, backing plates, hubs, bearings and seals. Then you'll have all new stuff with easy parts availability.

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by DDickey

I can re-line the brake shoes for $22ea, $88 total. I should probably replace the magnets for about $100 (not absolutely necessary). Original setup, fully functional and would probably last awhile, but it feels like I'm delaying the inevitable. Roughly $200 total.

I can replace the backing plates and modify the drum, but I don't really know what I'm getting into with this one. Could be a mess. Maybe $200 when all is said and done?

I can replace everything for about $400

Hmmmmmmmmmm.......

Drop axles are considerably cheaper than torsion axles.

Brake magnets today go for about $ 50.00 each.

For just a little more, you could upgrade your brakes, even with self adjusting brakes for just a little more, y replacing the complete backing plate.

Then you would have the latest and the best electric brakes.

The old system brakes are ok, but the new stuff leaves them in the dust.

Andy

[Action]

The only reason for replacing the axle would be because you could not find newer backing plates to fit the existing axle and newer drums to accept bearings that fit the spindle.

Otherwise you have a perfectly good axle. (If the leaf springs are still good is another question) You could take the drums and backing plate to a trailer shop in Austin and see if you get a match. Or call in there with measurements.

Or find a vendor to re-line the shoes for now. Sounds like the existing drums will work for now and eventually they will need to be replaced in time.

Your 22' trailer isn't likely to weigh much so it won't take much braking power to stop it. Meaning brake wear in the future may not be great as would be with a heavier trailer.

>>>>>>>>>>Action

[DDickey]

Originally Posted by Action

The only reason for replacing the axle would be because you could not find newer backing plates to fit the existing axle and newer drums to accept bearings that fit the spindle.

Otherwise you have a perfectly good axle. (If the leaf springs are still good is another question) You could take the drums and backing plate to a trailer shop in Austin and see if you get a match. Or call in there with measurements.

Or find a vendor to re-line the shoes for now. Sounds like the existing drums will work for now and eventually they will need to be replaced in time.

Your 22' trailer isn't likely to weigh much so it won't take much braking power to stop it. Meaning brake wear in the future may not be great as would be with a heavier trailer.

>>>>>>>>>>Action

What is the failure rate on these old drop axles? Am I stupid to keep the original axle to save a few hundred bucks? This is a full Monty after all. Here are my final options:

1. Clean it up and put everything back together as is. The brakes are worn, but they work, and they probably have another 10,000 miles left in them. One grease seal is leaking, so I'd replace it. Cost $15.

2. Have the shoes relined and use everything else. Shoes $88, grease seal $15, total cost $103. I could add new magnets for a total cost of $203.

3. Install new loaded backing plates, machine the existing hubs to fit (if necessary). Maybe $250 when all is said and done.

4. Replace the axle and brakes $400 - $500 (I install)

[markdoane]

There is some risk to option #3. You will not know until you have the new backing plates whether they will work with the original hubs.
I don't think they will, and I don't think you wil be able to machine them to fit. That's based on the geometry of the old hubs. If you do this, be sure that you can return the backing plates at no charge. Or keep the backing plates and move on to option #4.

[Action]

Originally Posted by DDickey

What is the failure rate on these old drop axles?
Am I stupid to keep the original axle to save a few hundred bucks?

The failure rate of that axle is nearly zero. What may fail and cause damage is a wheel bearing and damage the spindle on the end of the axle.

And know that any 60 year old parts in any condition will be desired by someone out there that is looking for the original parts.

As to your intelligence, I will leave that up for you to decide.

For an opinion, mine would be #1. However know that I am a very cheap guy. (Ask my wife) nd I am very much into original pieces. I am currently cleaning out a shed with auto stuff I have picked up over the years. (Almost 60) Selling most of it because there is someone out there with my illness.

Then seek to do #2 next year because you should be looking at your brakes annually IF the trailer is frequently used.

>>>>>>>>Action

[markdoane]

I suspect, but don't have the numbers to back it up, that the dimension from the hub face to the centerline of the brakes shoes is different. That would make using the old hubs with new backing plates problematic.
As I said it won't be a problem if you can return the new backing plate or end up replacing the axle.
I'm not trying to talk you into one option or the other - just want you to be ready in case the old hubs don't work on the new backing plates.

[DDickey]

Originally Posted by markdoane

I suspect, but don't have the numbers to back it up, that the dimension from the hub face to the centerline of the brakes shoes is different. That would make using the old hubs with new backing plates problematic.
As I said it won't be a problem if you can return the new backing plate or end up replacing the axle.
I'm not trying to talk you into one option or the other - just want you to be ready in case the old hubs don't work on the new backing plates.

Andy with Inland RV said that new backing plates would work with old hubs if you have the old hubs machined. Evidently the old backing plates are slightly offset towards the center of the trailer but the new ones are not, so the old hubs would rub on the new backing plates. There's a lip on the back of the old hub, and I'm guessing that if that lip is machined off the setup would work - but that's just a guess at this point.

[markdoane]

If you want to follow his advice then do so.

I think the lip on the old hubs are not a decorative element. I would suspect the lip has something to do controlling hoop stress in the hub.

But I may be wrong.