Tires...Tires...Tires

[Action]

Jim

So the tires that the belts shifted, were not covered under warranty?

How old were these tires?

What was the load rating of the tires that failed?

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[Bob Thompson]

Check out these Epinions reviews of Marathons:
http://www.epinions.com/Goodyear_Mar...splay_~reviews

Armed with this knowledge, does a professional who recommends them become criminally liable in the event of an accident?

[Rog0525]

Originally Posted by Bob Thompson

Check out these Epinions reviews of Marathons:
http://www.epinions.com/Goodyear_Mar...splay_~reviews

Armed with this knowledge, does a professional who recommends them become criminally liable in the event of an accident?

Gimme a break. Note in particular that some of these complainers are talking about passenger (P) tires. Goodyear Marathon tires are special trailer (ST) tires. Am I supposed to learm something from someone who doesn't know the difference between the two? Sorry, Bob but you are really stretching here. Of course people can have problems with any type of tire, as was mentioned very early in this thread. People who don't have problems with stuff they've bought generally don't post to biased sites like epinions.
If you're going to post information which supports your opinion, please be factually correct. I don't like gossip, especially when the gossipers have their facts incorrect.

[Bob Thompson]

That's incredibly funny! A spelling and puntuation critic throwing out the information due to technique and dismisses the whole story! Do as you like! It's not my job to try to make traveling safer.

[ROBERTSUNRUS]

Hi, I personally, when time to replace tires on any of my vehicles preferr either Goodyears or Michelins. I just read the Marathon reviews and with three out of twelve positive reviews; That confirms my choice to stick with Goodyear Marathons on my 2005 Airstream Safari 25-B. Reason being, mostly, only those who had bad experiences will complain or leave a bad review. And the silent majority [those who are happy with their Marathon tires or any other products] are reluctant to say anything.

I have been employed at new car dealerships since 1968; As a mechanic, service advisor, and shop foreman. [ Ford, Lincoln, Mercury, Chevrolet, GMC, and Oldsmobile ]And have read many, many customer survey cards and can tell you a great majority of returned cards were from unhappy customers. Very few from happy customers. But I will not discount the fact that many of the unhappy customers had legitimate concerns. Only the percentages are very small considering the amount of product owned and used by the consumer.

Bob

[Rog0525]

Originally Posted by Bob Thompson

That's incredibly funny! A spelling and puntuation critic throwing out the information due to technique and dismisses the whole story! Do as you like! It's not my job to try to make traveling safer.

spelling and puntuation critic? Where did that come from? Bob, I have no beef with you, I was one of the first to welcome you when you joined these forums. What I do have a problem with is posting advice which could be dangerous. I'm glad that you've has success thus far with your experiment but please don't expect me to keep my trap shut when I see very questionable advice being represented as fact. I am surprised that you would not expect some skepticism if you post information that is contrary to the opinion of Airstream engineers.

[Action]

Originally Posted by Bob Thompson

Check out these Epinions reviews of Marathons:
http://www.epinions.com/Goodyear_Mar...splay_~reviews

Armed with this knowledge, does a professional who recommends them become criminally liable in the event of an accident?

It's interesting that the first one (dated 3/30/05) was driving on tires not designed to handle the load. Not really the tire manufacturers issue. The trailer builder or dealer installed that rated tire and the customer had the problem.

Same fro me on my boat. Not Goodyears. I forget the actual numbers. However after my 1st blowout. I discovered the tires were rated for the exact amount of the load + or - 100 #'s. No saftey margin. And when I put fuel & gear into the boat the tire just didn't handle it. Not the tire manufacturers issue. They didn't design it for that service.

So are your trailer tires up to the load + 10%? Are they ST and you keep the speed to 65 or less? Do you keep the pressure to the max, cause that's how to keep the load rating. Wouldn't hurt to rotate them from time to time either. And keep the sun off of them when you are not moving.

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[uwe]

I heard of many Marathon failures too. Many are difficult to evaluate due to missing data, and the RV manufacturer's tendencies to supply underrated product to the public.
I am on my second set now, without failures whatsoever. I ran load range D tires, on sub 6000lb tandem axle trailers.

[Inland RV Center, In]

Rereading this entire thread, still shows that some will always want to be different.

Try this one on then.

Automotive and light truck tires, DO NOT have nearly enough side wall strength, to put on a tandem trailer.

Just make a tight turn with the trailer, and then stop. The twist in the tires are enormous. You cannt duplicate that twist with a motor vehicle.

The Goodyear Marathon was designed to take that twist, along with a different composition of rubber, that rejects more UV from the sun. Accordingly, they will last a lot longer, from sun exposure, than a standard tire.

Auto and light trucks tires cannot take that twist, without resulting side wall failure, not necessarily at the moment, but certainly, down the road. They also do not have the UV rejection characteristics that the Marathons do.

That stress is also put on the wheels. Regular wheels will not take that kind of punishment. Therefore 2600 pound rating wheels are a "MUST".

Again, what you see, is not always what you get.

There is far more to a tire than just it's ply, speed ratings, and mileage expectancy.

Using tires that have uncertain design characteristics, is not very wise. Only the user and sometimes an innocent person, suffers from those consequences.

Be safe, or I will report you to my Grandmother.

Andy

[scottanlily]

the last post by inland andy is exactly correct . The forces put on the sidewalls is extemely brutal .When turning the tires more or less want skid if they could , they cant and deflection on the sidewalls takes the load . After reading so many rv site posts including here on the forums , I can conclude the most common problem is tire overheating . Either from high speeds 70 or 80 mph on the highway (yes people do do this as we have all seen) and the tires are overloaded for the rating of the tire no matter whos brand of tire it is . Look at these massive sob fifth wheels, huge ,heavy, tires can only take what they are designed to handle. Seems like you just have to try to balance everything out as best as you can, weights, tire choices loading etc. We are all shooting for the best and safest way to tow our airstreams

[norsim]

Most of the manufactures of large high end fifth wheels, horse trailers and utility trailers equip their trailers with LT tires, some of these trailers such as Teton, Featherlite, Holiday Rambler etc. have a quality reputation al least as good as Airstream and the trailers may have GVWR twice as high as heaviest Airstream. Goodyear recommends Their LT tires for light trucks, SUVs and TRAILERS. The reason ST tires are marked on sidewall "for trailer use only" is that they do not meet Federal Standards for passenger carrying vehicle tires.

[norsim]

For What It Is Worth

U-Haul probaly runs more light duty trailer tires than anyone else in the world and they equip their trailers with Goodyear HRM 2020 ST tires. The HRM 2020 may be made for U-Haul only as I have not seen it listed on any tire site. U-Haul may have wanted better tire than Marathon, they may have wanted cheaper tire than Marathon or they may have just wanted to be different but for some reason they do not run Marathons. The difference in U-Haul selecting a tire and trailer manufacturer selecting a tire is that if tire blows out 200 miles from nowhere U-Haul is respsonsible for getting it fixed so I would think that they take trailer tire selection seriously.

[uwe]

I wonder if the high rate of complaints about Good Year Marathons is due to the fact that they're at the same time the best selling trailer tire in the world?
So, even though tere's alot of complaints, i know a bunch of people that had blowouts with Kellys, Carlisles, and Yokohama( i think it was Yokohama).
Anyways, they do not sell near as many tires as Good Year.
On top, many of the defective tires were misused by RV mfg....a lot of political bs here as well.

[Action]

Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In

Rereading this entire thread, still shows that some will always want to be different.

Try this one on then.

Automotive and light truck tires, DO NOT have nearly enough side wall strength, to put on a tandem trailer.

Just make a tight turn with the trailer, and then stop. The twist in the tires are enormous. You cannt duplicate that twist with a motor vehicle.

The Goodyear Marathon was designed to take that twist, along with a different composition of rubber, that rejects more UV from the sun. Accordingly, they will last a lot longer, from sun exposure, than a standard tire.
Be safe, or I will report you to my Grandmother.

Andy

Here is data taken from a Goodyear site relating to tires for RV's

http://www.goodyear.com/rv/tirecare/...iontables.html - click on buttom that says load inflation tables.

They recommend LT tires for some applications. Seems a bit confusing.



BTW U-uhaul is so specific, it is doubtful that a consumer could get any parts for a U-Haul vehicle. U-Haul specifies what they want and then it gets built in mass quanity. When I worked At Ford Motor Co, I got involved with a service engineer on a U-Haul vehicle. The vehicle had engine-transmission combination that the general public could not get. A lot of items were wierd for the U-Haul van that it was difficult for me to understand. The tires are most likely the same way. They order in bulk. Specify the specifications and the manufactures make it to that spec. It is slapped on the vehicle and part of the U-Haul package spec.

[scottanlily]

Hello ,
I read that tire info about the marathons ,epinions, well Ive looked on woodalls and rv.net and searched in depth researching tires for my 60 trdwnd. I did lots of reading etc. OK it looks like the marathons have a high rate of failure ,you just cannot dismiss so much evidence showing this to be true ,so many unhappy people . however , It seems that most of the sob manafacturers are using these tires so thousands are on the road . which means there will be more instances you will read about failures of these tires . That being said, what is the rate of failure say that inland andy has knowledge of with airstream trailers . they must not be having this much trouble with the marathons or I believe he would indeed say so . Airstream just might be matching the tires to the actual weight of thier trailers . As I said in an earlier post These sob trailers may be too heavy for the marathons too be able to handle .It would be a big help if we knew if the failure rates were are just as high with airstream trailers .By the way it does seem that the 16" tires and wheels are not an issue for the most part . Have not read much at all concerning them .

scott of scottanlily

[Beginner]

Focus ladies and gentlemen. Let us not forget what we are on this thread to discuss. If there are so many complaints flying around shouldn't be obvious that there is a problem somewhere. Where there is smoke, there is usually fire.
I think I'll take a trip to my local UHaul Center and take a close look at their tires. Remember, they rent tandem axle trailers also. My friend the Demolition person that hauls a 12,000 lb Bobcat around on a tandem torsion axle trailer stopped having tire problems when the manufacturer of that trailer sent him a set of 16 inch wheels with LT tires of the same load range as the ST tires that were not holding up. The same drivers, trailer, load and tv were being impressed on the ST tires as was being inpressed on the LT tires, however, since the installation of the LT tires, no problems.

Action
Sorry to take so long to get back to you. I had a funeral and my grandaughters birthday to attend. I had to go over to where the bad tires were stored and get the DOT numbers off of them. They are as follows;
First failure, DOT WEHH89916012502
Second failure; DOTWEHH89916012802
which according to the NHTSA web site http://www.safercar.gov/tires/pages/...elPassVeh2.htm were made in the 25th week of 2002 and the 28th of 2002.
They were both load range D. The left rear tire had 1100 pounds on it and the right rear tire had 1300 lbs on it.
These weights were taken with West Weigh Portable Scales, 20,000 capacity, recently calibrated and with all wheels on 2x8s except for the two wheels on the scales to maintain the level of tv and trailer.
The local dealer told me over the phone that because I was not the original owner of the tire there was nothing he could do for me.
These tires were barely 3 years old if that when they failed.
Please remember these things:
1. The top speed rating of the Goodyear Marathon is 65 MPH. Reference http://www.goodyear.com/rv/pdf/rv_inflation.pdf
What this means is that any excursion over 65 MPH damages the tire, either by centrifugal force of heat. The Federal Government only requires ST tires to be tested to 65 MPH so that is what they are built to, period.
2. The speed rating is an overall test of the tires ability to generate heat, dissipate heat and stay together despite the heat that it cannot disipate.
3. Products change. The change is seldom to my liking, but they change. Todays big drivers of change in the tire industry as in most manufacturering industries is the EPA regulations, the bean counters trying to maximize profits for the share holders and the American Bar Association.

[Beginner]

Rog0525
Simply do as I did. Go into the shop manual and find out what size tire was originally installed on your unit. Email the manufacturer of that tire and find out what the outside diameter (OD) of that tire was and the width of that tire at its widest point on the same width rim that you now have on your unit.
Michelin or B. F. Goodrich site and see if they offer a tire with your od and width needs. In my case the original tire was the Michelin XCA. That tires OD and the max width of the Marathon ST225/75R15 are the same as the B. F. Goodrich OD and Max Width.
Simply put, same physically size tire, 16 inch rim.
Jim

[scottanlily]

Hello beginner ,
We are focused . The beginning of the thread headline is tires tires tires .Is that not so?At the end of my post I mentioned 16 inch tires ,one of your last post you talked about the bobcat trailer getting 16 inch tires . We know that the 16 inch tires will increase capacity as you have shown . the point is that not everyone is accepting that idea . There are concerns that everone wants to weigh in on . Hopefully everyone can get some info from this discussion and make a good informed decision.

Scott of scottanlily

[wingfoot321]

I don't pay much attention to posts such as epinions because

(1) there is no statistical validity to the posts (2) only irate customers post,(3) there is no connection between Goodyear & Carlisle which two of the posts link for some reason? (4) 5th wheels I see on the road are rarely towing level so the back tires are carrying more load (5) many 5th wheel manuf. do not respect a reserve factor on tires, they want the smallest,cheapest, etc. (Goodyear is partially at fault for selling them the tires-they should pass on the business)

You guys are being a little hard on Bob! There is nothing wrong with his thought process of moving to 16" wheels and into LT tires designed for f250, f350 turbo diesels. The load & speed rating is higher and if you want reserve capacity, that is the way to go.

I guess I'm too cheap to buy the wheels.

I am not a tire engineer but, I am quite sure the sidewall on an LT is just as strong as on an ST. They both use what the industry refers to as a long or high turnup which means there is more fabric material wrapped around the bead to stitch or hold together under stress. I personally think the turnup/sidewall is designed stronger on an LT than on an ST but, that is just my opinion.

It is still a good thread. I personally think Airstream should be offering an upgrade/option package on their new trailers for 16" wheels.

[scottanlily]

The posts that people place such as epinions usually reflect negative feedback . They did not appear to misrepresent . The problems with the 15 inch st marathons isnt any secret .The marathons are not linked to the carliles ,they are another brand of tire that seem to be problematic with trailers . The fiver manufacturers do not as you have said repect a reserve factor on the tires . Often overloading the tires . They figure ,go another 3000 pounds 2 axles with 15s will be ok .I will say that going to 16s seems to solve the problem .Only thing I would watch of course is tire pressure ., with the 16s you shouldnt have to run 80 psi . Match the load with the air pressure .16 inch tires can carry the load thats for sure.The tires can really give a rough ride at the higher pressures though.

Scott of scottanlily