Tires and PSI observation from Wally in Africa.

[gypsydad]

I was reading the Africa Airstream trip with Wally, in the Summer Edition of Airstream Life. Interesting reading all of the "modifications and changes" Wally discovered and made as a result of this trip. One of the first things I noticed was his findings on tires, and the benefit of running on "lower" PSI and having less issues with the Airstream. Many of us here, by trial and error, understand by personal experiences, running at a lower PSI, helps prevent broken hinges, popped rivets, etc. Enjoy...

[aftermath]

O...Kay...but do you really think a discovery he made in 1959 is applicable to what today's Airstreamer deals with? Granted, a softer tire translates to smoother ride, less shock to the trailer systems, fewer popped rivets and so on. At the speeds we drive today, lower pressures can and do lead to overheated tires, tread separation, blow outs and all that other nasty stuff. The key will always be finding that sweet spot for your setup.

All that said, what Wally did back in those days was really spectacular and quite noteworthy. The word, pioneer, doesn't even come close to what he accomplished.

[Action]

That advise from Wally's experience in Africa would be great.
If you are traveling in Africa on roadways of the 50's on 60's.

Traveling on the US Interstate system is nothing like traveling in Africa then or now.
I have been to Tanzania and other South African Nations on multiple occasions. The number of road hazards laying on the road ways, poor roads in general and lack of traffic control infrastructure makes it difficult to navigate for solo vehicles to travel faster than 50 or 60 MPH. Add a trailer of any significance and speeds have to be reduced a bunch.
(Exception is many parts of the nation South Africa. Which is not the norm for the rest of Africa)

Lowering tire pressure may be the best choice on unpaved or on poorly paved roads where the top speeds never approach anything close to a US Interstate max speed. Otherwise you might want to smile at Wally's experience and move on to the next chapter.

Action

[Bill M.]

One thing to note is that Wally's group was running bias-ply tires. We are now running radials. I personally run P rated XL tires because they have enough capacity at 50 psi for my trailer and a good reserve and they do run smooth. but just lowering the pressure on ST tire may or may not be the way to go.

[gypsydad]

I run my GY Endurance at 58-60PSI "cold" these days with great results, and no more issues...last 4 years. They heat up to 80+PSI typically, but no excessive wear nor issues "anymore" with rivets, hinges, latches, etc. I am not wanting an argument with the "experts" here, but Wally was on to the value of lower PSI, no matter what road conditions back in the day, is my point. Run yours how you like, but I am convinced from my experience with 3rd set now of Endurance on this 28' AS; no rivet issues, no broken latches, doors, etc; and no tread wear/separation issues with these. I have put 9K miles on this summer, and the year is not over for streaming! 69K miles total on the AS, and third set of GYE tires.

(Oh, by the way...I do travel on paved roads and highways most of the time; 65-70MPH is typical; off road/boondocking "occasionally", and gravel roads at some campgrounds, though not my preference; point is, inside of the AS is much less of an issue with running lower PSI)

[Action]

Running at 60 and the pressure rises to 80, that is over a 30 percent increase in pressure.

If it were me, I would be increasing the cold fill pressure. Just based on that single factor.

And you do what you want on your equipment.

Action

[Hans627]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

I run my GY Endurance at 58-60PSI "cold" these days with great results, and no more issues...last 4 years. They heat up to 80+PSI typically, but no excessive wear nor issues "anymore" with rivets, hinges, latches, etc. I am not wanting an argument with the "experts" here, but Wally was on to the value of lower PSI, no matter what road conditions back in the day, is my point. Run yours how you like, but I am convinced from my experience with 3rd set now of Endurance on this 28' AS; no rivet issues, no broken latches, doors, etc; and no tread wear/separation issues with these. I have put 9K miles on this summer, and the year is not over for streaming! 69K miles total on the AS, and third set of GYE tires.

(Oh, by the way...I do travel on paved roads and highways most of the time; 65-70MPH is typical; off road/boondocking "occasionally", and gravel roads at some campgrounds, though not my preference; point is, inside of the AS is much less of an issue with running lower PSI)

First of all I also enjoyed the article about Wally. And I too have the tire pressure reduced but use 65 psi as the baseline. It has also been my experience that reduced pressure from the max 80 psi is better for the AS.

[sfranklin]

According to Tireman, you inflate for the weight you need. Inflating the Endurance tires per the Goodyear inflation/load chart, filling to 60psi would net you an overall carrying capacity of 9520lbs, less at 58psi, or about 2380 per tire, again slightly less at 58psi.

I have been doing something similar, and in the years I've been doing this, first filling to a proper PSI cold, I have never, ever seen a 20psi increase in tire pressure. Not saying it can't happen, but the most I've seen is maybe 10psi +/-, typically around 7psi, but never a 20-22lb difference.

One thing to point out is that if you do the generic method like this, and have no real world knowledge of the weights being applied to each tire, you are in essence making an educated guess that the arbitrary number you select will cover the weight of all the tires, even though some tires may have more weight or less based on trailer configuration and how the trailer is loaded. More weight, a single tire could be overloaded if you pick incorrectly. Not enough weight and the tire is overinflated based on carrying capacity need and you've created a rough ride on that one tire- but how do you know without weighing it? Tireman clearly stated you inflate for the load you have cold and we all know that Airstream's stated weights can be somewhat dynamic as a starting point. It sounds like Gypsydad has successfully found the sweet spot for him, but I would caution folks that each trailer is different and unless you weigh each wheel, at best it's a guesstimate, and educated one at that, but still a guesstimate nonetheless.

Last thing I'd like to comment on is that Wally was truly ahead of the curve, but comparing what he did on caravans 60-70 years ago with what was available at the time compared to today, though still has value, it truly is not an apples to apples comparison. For starters, the trailers weighed nearly 1/2 what they do today and as has been pointed out, different tire types. The roads and paths taken on the Capetown to Cairo rally in the 50s and 60s were night and day compared to what most Airstreams on the road today see. Although I do appreciate the insight, you need to mix that formula with how it may still apply to current rigs over the past 20 years and going back 40 or 50 years, there were more rivets, front frame/shell plates and nearly every car used at a TV was the equiv of a 1/2 truck.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by sfranklin

According to Tireman, you inflate for the weight you need. Inflating the Endurance tires per the Goodyear inflation/load chart, filling to 60psi would net you an overall carrying capacity of 9520lbs, less at 58psi, or about 2380 per tire, again slightly less at 58psi.

I have been doing something similar, and in the years I've been doing this, first filling to a proper PSI cold, I have never, ever seen a 20psi increase in tire pressure. Not saying it can't happen, but the most I've seen is maybe 10psi +/-, typically around 7psi, but never a 20-22lb difference.

One thing to point out is that if you do the generic method like this, and have no real world knowledge of the weights being applied to each tire, you are in essence making an educated guess that the arbitrary number you select will cover the weight of all the tires, even though some tires may have more weight or less based on trailer configuration and how the trailer is loaded. More weight, a single tire could be overloaded if you pick incorrectly. Not enough weight and the tire is overinflated based on carrying capacity need and you've created a rough ride on that one tire- but how do you know without weighing it? Tireman clearly stated you inflate for the load you have cold and we all know that Airstream's stated weights can be somewhat dynamic as a starting point. It sounds like Gypsydad has successfully found the sweet spot for him, but I would caution folks that each trailer is different and unless you weigh each wheel, at best it's a guesstimate, and educated one at that, but still a guesstimate nonetheless.

Last thing I'd like to comment on is that Wally was truly ahead of the curve, but comparing what he did on caravans 60-70 years ago with what was available at the time compared to today, though still has value, it truly is not an apples to apples comparison. For starters, the trailers weighed nearly 1/2 what they do today and as has been pointed out, different tire types. The roads and paths taken on the Capetown to Cairo rally in the 50s and 60s were night and day compared to what most Airstreams on the road today see. Although I do appreciate the insight, you need to mix that formula with how it may still apply to current rigs over the past 20 years and going back 40 or 50 years, there were more rivets, front frame/shell plates and nearly every car used at a TV was the equiv of a 1/2 truck.

No argument with observations in your post nor previous replies here. If I used the GY chart, I would be at 55PSI. I used to run at 55 but moved up to 60 PSI after second set of GYE wore out a bit early. Happy with 60PSI, which some morning becomes 58PSI...as for getting up to 80PSI while driving, is not unusual in my experience with temps in the 90's.

My point on posting this (again) was I have had a "plethora" of "incidents" early on due to tires running too much PSI. Wally points out a simple fact that running below MAX PSI, can/does help the trailer ride with more cushion saving issues with todays AS's, as well as in his experience early on regardless of the road. I agree, a rougher road, lowering PSI even more is not a bad idea, as well as taking it slower, but I "try" not to go for long periods on unpaved roads. My experience in running lower PSI, again: No more broken latches, no drawers coming out, no fridge opening doors, no shower door or closet door on the floor, no mirror latch issues, and no more multiple rivet popped issues. Again, my experience..and I ain't claiming to be as smart as Wally!

[4mer Paddler]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

I run my GY Endurance at 58-60PSI "cold" these days with great results, and no more issues...last 4 years.

I’m new to the 15” GYE’s (about 4,000 km so far) having had Michelin LT’s for 10 years. Always ran them at 50 lbs cold and never had any problems at all.
I’m running the GYE’s at 55 lbs cold. At ambient temps of 70 to 75°F the pressure rises to 65 lbs with the temperature rising to 80 to 85°F. Usually maintain highway speeds of 65 to 70 mph. They seem to run okay but I do notice a little more effect on the interior. Drawers opening and dishes shifting around more than before, but nothing too drastic. I really did like the Michelins!

[Life is a Highway]

A modern radial tire sidewall does not like being run soft. Wally had a different tire back then bias ply hard as a rock. That said over pressure is just as bad as under.


made in 1959 is applicable to what today's Airstreamer deals with? Granted, a softer tire translates to smoother ride, less shock to the trailer systems, fewer popped rivets and so on. At the speeds we drive today, lower pressures can and do lead to overheated tires, tread separation, blow outs and all that other nasty stuff. The key will always be finding that sweet spot for your setup.

All that said, what Wally did back in those days was really spectacular and quite noteworthy. The word, pioneer, doesn't even come close to what he accomplished.[/QUOTE]

[richard5933]

I'd guess that if we were running our trailers on the same mix of unimproved roads as Wally with the same slow speeds it would be fine to lower our tire pressure like he did. Lots of people who take their trucks off road do the same thing, and then re-inflate before hitting the pavement again.

[lemley]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

I was reading the Africa Airstream trip with Wally, in the Summer Edition of Airstream Life. Interesting reading all of the "modifications and changes" Wally discovered and made as a result of this trip. One of the first things I noticed was his findings on tires, and the benefit of running on "lower" PSI and having less issues with the Airstream. Many of us here, by trial and error, understand by personal experiences, running at a lower PSI, helps prevent broken hinges, popped rivets, etc. Enjoy...

I wanted to read the article. I really enjoy the old caravan stories and following the trailer evolution. I could not find it either in the August or May 2024 Blue Beret. Am I failing to see the obvious?

Can you give the issue and page that this article was in? Thanks

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by lemley

I wanted to read the article. I really enjoy the old caravan stories and following the trailer evolution. I could not find it either in the August or May 2024 Blue Beret. Am I failing to see the obvious?

Can you give the issue and page that this article was in? Thanks

It is in Summer Edition of Airstream Life magazine.

[jadatis]

60 psi cold filled, going to 80 psi can happen if enaugh water in tire and high ambiënt temperature, like the 90 degr F Gipsydad mentiones. But on the edges, and most likely still no overheated tire-material, which is main goal of determining needed tirepressure.

I attached a list of cold filled pressures in wich above the max extra by water, is 5.25 psi for 75 degrC/ 167 degr F in tire.
I estimated temp of gascompound in tire is allowed to get , driving in ambiënt temperature of 40 degC/ 104 degr F .
Then still tirematerial not above 250 degr F / 120 degrC, at any spot.


Can be I have to adyust the exact temperatures in time , but shal not be much.

Calculated the 60 psi of Gipsydad, assumed filled at 65 degr F , going to 80 psi ( incidentially I presume).
Gave , if enaugh water in tire 169 degr F in tire, if completely dry gascompound 205 degr F,.
So wet on the edges, and dry way over.

But mayby some inacuracy in tpms reading, and lower temperature when filled to 60 psi.

And I once calculated the same pressure, with his given data, with build in maximum reserve for speed and weight.

Gypsydad, did all the tires went to 80 psi at that situation, or only the highest?

[gregwall]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

No argument with observations in your post nor previous replies here. If I used the GY chart, I would be at 55PSI. I used to run at 55 but moved up to 60 PSI after second set of GYE wore out a bit early. Happy with 60PSI, which some morning becomes 58PSI...as for getting up to 80PSI while driving, is not unusual in my experience with temps in the 90's.

My point on posting this (again) was I have had a "plethora" of "incidents" early on due to tires running too much PSI. Wally points out a simple fact that running below MAX PSI, can/does help the trailer ride with more cushion saving issues with todays AS's, as well as in his experience early on regardless of the road. I agree, a rougher road, lowering PSI even more is not a bad idea, as well as taking it slower, but I "try" not to go for long periods on unpaved roads. My experience in running lower PSI, again: No more broken latches, no drawers coming out, no fridge opening doors, no shower door or closet door on the floor, no mirror latch issues, and no more multiple rivet popped issues. Again, my experience..and I ain't claiming to be as smart as Wally!

I took your advice a few years ago and am on my second set of GYE at 65 psi. I am very happy with them. I may lower the pressure to 60 after reading this. Now if they would just fix those HUGE bumps on either side of interstate bridges!

[JandC]

Hi, please consider if you a running 65 or 70 or more, you have a bumper pull trailer that has different characteristics from a semi running a fifth wheel. Airstream s are for relaxing and sightseeing, I suggest a maximum speed of 62 mph. Takes a while to slow down like that but it really keeps you out of trouble. Keep to the right, the center lane in a city, and a lot of room in front of you. Ever seen a jackknifed trailer over in a ditch? Just sayin. Call me slowpoke if you want but I'm still here.

[richard5933]

Originally Posted by JandC

Hi, please consider if you a running 65 or 70 or more, you have a bumper pull trailer that has different characteristics from a semi running a fifth wheel. Airstream s are for relaxing and sightseeing, I suggest a maximum speed of 62 mph. Takes a while to slow down like that but it really keeps you out of trouble. Keep to the right, the center lane in a city, and a lot of room in front of you. Ever seen a jackknifed trailer over in a ditch? Just sayin. Call me slowpoke if you want but I'm still here.

Reminds me of a saying which was used lots during my CDL training...truck drivers can drive too slowly down the hills as many times as they want, but you only get to run down too fast once.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by JandC

Hi, please consider if you a running 65 or 70 or more, you have a bumper pull trailer that has different characteristics from a semi running a fifth wheel. Airstream s are for relaxing and sightseeing, I suggest a maximum speed of 62 mph. Takes a while to slow down like that but it really keeps you out of trouble. Keep to the right, the center lane in a city, and a lot of room in front of you. Ever seen a jackknifed trailer over in a ditch? Just sayin. Call me slowpoke if you want but I'm still here.

I think we all hear you! Would be very nice if the "truckers" or folks in a "hurry" would drive at or below the speed limit, which in many states is 75-80 MPH these days!. I venture to say, it is very "risky" to "unsafe" to not stay up with the traffic flow in locations like highway 35 in Texas, or highway 10 across Louisiana from/too Florida and TX. I mean, very difficult and scarry if you "have to" use these arteries to get from point A to B....sometimes you can not avoid. Recently coming home from our 5 months of traveling this summer, we came in thru Texarkana, AR and used 79 to avoid 35...where speeds of 80-85+mph by the truckers is typical! I wish we all could safely travel at 60-65...even in CA, where the max limit is "supposed" to be 65MPH, on the highways, you will find the "flow" going at 75+ on some well traveled highways. Do you have to travel that fast while towing?? Well, no....but as I mentioned, unless your off on a less traveled road, sometimes it becomes unsafe if you try to slow down...it's crazy out there!

[richard5933]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

I think we all hear you! Would be very nice if the "truckers" or folks in a "hurry" would drive at or below the speed limit, which in many states is 75-80 MPH these days!. I venture to say, it is very "risky" to "unsafe" to not stay up with the traffic flow in locations like highway 35 in Texas, or highway 10 across Louisiana from/too Florida and TX. I mean, very difficult and scarry if you "have to" use these arteries to get from point A to B....sometimes you can not avoid. Recently coming home from our 5 months of traveling this summer, we came in thru Texarkana, AR and used 79 to avoid 35...where speeds of 80-85+mph by the truckers is typical! I wish we all could safely travel at 60-65...even in CA, where the max limit is "supposed" to be 65MPH, on the highways, you will find the "flow" going at 75+ on some well traveled highways. Do you have to travel that fast while towing?? Well, no....but as I mentioned, unless your off on a less traveled road, sometimes it becomes unsafe if you try to slow down...it's crazy out there!

I disagree with this.

First, many trucks are governed by their companies to run at about 60-62, so not all truckers are going as fast as you think. When I drove a semi I plodded along at 62 (the max I could go) in the right lane and never had an issue where it put me in danger.

Today I continue to plod along at about 62-65 while towing the Airstream. We did the same for years driving our vintage motorhome. We stay in the right lane and just carry on. The biggest obstacle is really in our own heads, tensing up and being paranoid about other drivers going too fast. When I was in training for my last job driving semi the trainer made a point of telling us to focus on our own driving and our own safety. If other drivers needed to wait while we maneuvered around an area slowly they would, and the worst thing we could do was give in to the occasional honks or nasty looks. Many a truck driver (and RV driver, for sure) has gotten into tough situations by succumbing to the peer pressure on the road, whether it be trying to take a turn when there wasn't proper clearance because cars were honking behind, or whether it be trying to keep up with traffic only to find that the rig was unstable.

I'd venture to guess that there are 10x more accidents resulting from going too fast than from going too slow. I haven't been able to find hard statistics, but just judging by the news articles it seems that "going too fast for conditions" is often part of the story of what caused as accident, but I can't remember reading this about a driver going too slowly.

There are certainly minimum speeds on many stretches of highway, usually 45 mph. The speeds we're talking about are generally much higher than any minimum speed limit out there.

I'd say just relax and enjoy the ride. Let other crazy drivers out there worry about their safety and do your best to stay out of their way.