! TIRED OF TIRE SEARCH- recalls/complaints

[m.hony]

What about Michelin LTX MS2 15" from Walmart for $124.03 each?


Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums

[Ag&Au]

Originally Posted by m.hony

What about Michelin LTX MS2 15" from Walmart for $124.03 each?


Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums

I am not going to do it, since I already have the 16 inch ones. However the first thing I would do is go to Michelin's web site and check the load ratings. If I remember correctly, that might be a problem for a 30 foot trailer. Derate the published ratings by the appropriate percentage for using P or LT tires on a trailer. Sorry, I don't remember the figure offhand.

Ken

[m.hony]

What about getting 16" wheels and 16" LTX MS2? Or is it LT that we really need?


Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums

[m.hony]

15" Michelin are better than Goodyear Marathons, right?


Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums

[Gene]

M.,

It is about load carrying capacity. Michelin 16" LTX will carry more weight than a 15" P tire. You have a big, heavy trailer. Go with 16", Load Range E. Did your truck come with P tires and did you replace them with LT tires because they are better tires? Maybe your Limited Tundra came with Michelin LT's—if so, it is for a good reason.

I believe you have to derate P tires about 15% for trailer use. Just about any LT tire is better than an ST tire.

Gene

[Rocinante]

That may depend on how heavy the trailer is. Tireman has a blog where he talks about LTX tires. Maybe that will help: RV Tire Safety: Much confusion on some RV forums

[m.hony]

No. Truck came with 20" wheels.
Can't get Load Range E in my particular size. Maybe I can go 10mm larger or smaller and get Load Range E tires?
What is the off-set on the wheels on the trailer? I wonder if I have any wheel options other than the Sendel wheels.
Maybe eventually I'll have Load Range E on the truck and trailer, a ProPride, solar, inverter, and an RV garage.


Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums

[CapriRacer]

Guys,

We need to be careful here. Are we talking about a tow vehicle or are we talking about the trailer, or are we talking about an motorized RV - and even further subdividing: Are we talking about a pickup truck or van based RV or a big truck/bus based RV? From my perspective as a tire engineer, I view these vehicles differently and approach tire issues differently, because there are different issues with each kind.

In the case of trailers, one of the problems is the load carrying capacity of the tires. Trailer manufacturers weren't always good about supplying tires with enough. For those cases higher load ranges or larger tires is what I would recommend - ala the 16" recommendation.

The fact that many trailers came with Chinese brand tires is complicating the issue and making it difficult to sort out what is causing the issue.

But for tow vehicles, it depends on the year of the truck. Between 2001 and 2008, most pickup truck manufacturers upgraded their load carrying capacity such that the tires were specified higher than the GAWR's. In those cases, brand and where the tires were manufactured don't seem to matter (although Chinese brands aren't heavily represented in the marketplace.)

Also by 2008, most converters had upgraded their choice of vehicles such that the vehicles were operating within their load limitations. Prior to 2008, it is confusing. Some converters did a good job, some not so much.

This particular thread is under AS restoration - so all the discussion ought to be about older AS's where the tire sizing MIGHT be an issue. Personally, I don't know enough about those older AS's to be able to draw generalities. My only thoughts are that bigger will always be better.

[rodsterinfl]

The day I purchased my now 9 year old Airstream I had to go across town to get tires. I purchased TowMax and quickly learned that my Airstream rims were designed for PSI only up to D rated tires. Then later learned the issues with trailer tires on the forum on both old and new trailers. I looked up my load rating and then found that truck tires are also designed for load. I ended up buying Michelin 16" MS/2 for my trailer with new wheels and 17" for the truck. If you have a trailer that can handle the 16" wheel, I would recommend the upgrade since it then gives you more tire options and slightly adds some ground clearance.

A cost-conscious consumer always looks for the best performance/price. For my age I have had several cars too many and purchased tires for just about every one. I have never had trouble with Michelin but I had trouble with other brands, being too noisy, sidewall bubbles, tread separation, etc. I believe that what SteveSueMac said is what is critical- consistent dependability. I am not sure what Chinese tire has such a rating that is better than Michelin. Dad just bought a Hyundai Genesis sedan. Nice Car but they had a recall on its Korean tires. They were getting flat spots and noisy. Hyundai replaced all new Genesis with Michelin this year- what a difference. Quiet, smooth, etc. Tires ratings are subjective but reliability is not. Over and over you hear stories of people buying some off-brand or Asian tire and are happy with them then they buy them again and have a nightmare. My own experience is the same. Now when buying tires I listen to the salesman tell me about the options and prices but know which one to get without being concerned. Even in big names- Good Year, etc. I will choose Michelin every time. I had bad experience with Good Year (expensive and worn out in 12,000 miles with bubbles) on Lexus along with other brands.

[Dexterpix]

Not a defense of any one brand over another, but I did observe something interesting travelling from Mass to Colorado last month. While travelling thru Indiana,Iowa and Nebraska I was amazed at the number of trailer transporters we saw. We all seem to understand most TT come with ST type tires rated at 65mph. I would argue some of the negative experiances people have had with ST tires could be a result of the TT's journey from the factory. We had many transporters pass us at well over 75-80mph. These are the posted speed limits in some of these areas and we travelled at 62mph. I would argue the several 100mile or more trip that the TT unit was run from the factory to the dealer may have had massive damage done to the tires if the transporter was one of these guys running 75+mph for the trip. WERE the tires bad or was the tire destroyed before someone even purchsed the TT? Would new ST tires unused prior to you mounting them and using them as directed last longer and be perfectly safe? Just food for thought.

Joe D

[jcanavera]

Interesting food for thought. I see a lot of these folks on the Interstate traveling through the St. Louis area, and many are clearly exceeding the local posted 60 mph limits. I can only wonder about their speed once they get out of the slower city limits. After all the faster they deliver, the more trips they can make....

Jack

[Tireman9]

I see many posts with incomplete information which can result in confusion.

Example "What about getting 16" wheels and 16" LTX MS2? Or is it LT that we really need?" The Michelin LTX MS/2 comes in both P type and LT type for 16" wheels. Which is it you are considering?

Load capacity
"Derate the published ratings by the appropriate percentage for using P or LT tires on a trailer. Sorry, I don't remember the figure offhand."
The De-rating is Load/1.10 Basically 90%

Providing incomplete info
"I ended up buying Michelin 16" MS/2 for my trailer"
What size & type? there are both P type and LT type in the "LTX MS/2" line

CapriRacer is correct that we need to be careful when we use abbreviated and partial name or siz information. 15" is not helpful when talking size "MS/2" is just part of a marketing title.

I did a post in my Blog on March 2 just on the confusion Michelin caused with the name & line "LTX MS/2"

[Gene]

Yes, this thread has gotten very confusing, though that's pretty normal around here. Capri, I think I recall your March post on Michelin's use of the same model name for very different tires.

M.: offset for recent Airstream models (since 2000 I believe and probably before), is 0˚. Sorry to hear your Tundra has 20" tires as they cost even more and I am unsure there is any benefit to larger and larger tire diameters.

I sure am glad I am happy with our tires and wonder why I read these tire threads.

Gene

[rodsterinfl]

I do not find it confusing at all. First, passenger tires are not suited well for our trailers and the assumption is that most would know that based on load rating. Truck tires are used by Airstream on the Eddie Bauer model 16" and my stating to consider 16" if they fit the application is that it opens up the options tremendously as opposed to the few 15" tires available. LTX tires are designed specifically for load with less sidewall play (for loads). They ride rougher too. I find that de-rating them is a mute point compared to passenger tires. Consider that Michelin has the Rib tire which is very similar to the MS/2 with the same load ratings, etc and its one major variation is that it can be retreaded. No one has to go to 16"but if LTX, it will get you out from under the ST 65mph limit.

[xrvr]

I didn't know LTX meant truck tires. I thought LT meant truck tires?

[rodsterinfl]

Yes, LT is the general all brands classification. LTX is Michelin but so is X Radial LT. They have a different tread. The differences are not advertised. Regardless though avionstream, you are correct LT is light truck.

[Dexterpix]

LTX is a line of tires sold by Michelin not all of the LTX line tires are LT (truck tires)
My Nissan Xterra has LTX-MS2 on it and they are P (passenger tires).
My 2500 Dodge 4x4 TV has LTX - AS on it and they are LT tires (load range e truck tires) .
People are confusing a companys tire line with a tire type designation.

Joe D

[Ag&Au]

Originally Posted by Dexterpix

LTX is a line of tires sold by Michelin not all of the LTX line tires are LT (truck tires)
My Nissan Xterra has LTX-MS2 on it and they are P (passenger tires).
My 2500 Dodge 4x4 TV has LTX - AS on it and they are LT tires (load range e truck tires) .
People are confusing a companys tire line with a tire type designation.

Joe D

What differences are there between P and LT tires except for their load ratings?

Ken

[Gene]

Michelin has used "X" as a type of tire at least since the 1960's. I think back then it was used to show it had steel cord in the tire, something no one else had done then. Maybe it related to radial tires, though, as they came out around then too.

Sometime in the past 10 years they added "X" to "LT" for their light truck tires and then M/S, M/S2 or A/T(maybe 2 also) for mud and snow or all terrain. They are pretty similar though the A/T has a bit more aggressive tread. But a few years ago, they started selling P tires with the name "LTX"—that is misleading because they are not a truck tire, but a passenger tire.

The difference? From the internet (where everything is true)—

LT vs P Tires

The tires of truck and passenger vehicles are different. The tires differ in their size and air pressure. Well, in order to differentiate between truck and passenger vehicle tires, the letters LT and P are placed in front of the tire size.

If you want to carry heavier loads, or want to travel on harsh roads, then the best tires are the LT tires, as they are tougher on the roads than the P tires. If you just want to ride on the highways, and if there is nothing much to tow or carry, then the P type is the best choice.

P tires refer to Passenger tires and LT refers to Light Truck tires. One of the main differences that can be noticed between the two types of tires is that the LT tires are not as flexible as the P tires.

When comparing their durability, the LT tires are more durable than the P type tires. Moreover, LT tires are stronger when compared to the P types. LT tires ride rougher than the P tires, which ride smoother on the roads.

Another difference that can be seen between the two types, is that the Light truck tires come with maximum inflation. Unlike the Passenger tires, the Light Truck ones are used for carrying more loads. LT tires have a load range of 10 ply, whereas P tires only have a 4 ply load range.

Light Truck tires are made of more aggressive treads than the Passenger type tires. LT tires will give a more stable feeling on the roads.


You don't have to buy only E load range LT tires, so that part is wrong and I think P tires are available with more plies. The rest seems accurate. There are also Eurometric tires, just for fun. A good LT tire can ride better than a cheap P tire.

Gene

[Dexterpix]

P series tires are usually one load range. They do offer some extra load range models. If you use air pressure rating as a simple way to show load range most P series tires have a max PSI of 35, the extra load one to like 40-41PSI.

LT series tires have several load ranges (B - F ) lowest PSI 35 to high of 95 PSI.

LT tires will have stiffer sidewalls to handle the increase load

This is the same for ST tires they have several load ranges and are a stiffer tire to handle to loads.

P series tires have more and much higher speed ratings than LT and ST tires the lighter construction allows heat to be managed better.

Lt tires will offer more tread types (very simple rib tire to a full off road mud)

P series tires are anything from simple basic tire to full racing tire.

I stick to tires made for the job you want them to do, and follow the tire companies guide lines for use. They made the tire, they should now how to best use it

Joe D