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Old 09-13-2021, 06:50 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tireman9 View Post
Simply selling lots of tires does not make someone an actual tire "Expert". Maybe you need to ask those self proclaimed "Experts" how many tires have they been responsible to take from concept through the development and testing to production?
Have they bee declared in a court to be an "expert"?


You folks here in this forum in that you have two actual tire design engineers that follow this forum. These engineers are from two different tire companies bringing decades or actual tire design, testing and inspection of failed tires to learn the reason for failure. I suggest you listen to the advice given.
Understood,

I was not clear when I read my statement, I do not mean to say underinflate but to run at a lower PSI somwhere between 65 and 75, this allows for air to expand when heated. Also a softer ride

Just from some "other experienced" people

But it feels a little hostile in the thread, I'm not a tire expert

So peace out
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Old 09-13-2021, 07:20 PM   #82
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I own a 25RB Flying Cloud I tried 80Lbs as the dealer instructed for the first couple of months. After replacing several rivets after each trip I decide something was wrong. After I weighed my fully loaded trailer on CAT scales I referee to the Goodyear Endurance Tires table that has been posted in this thread. It said I should use 45 lbs. based on my total weight. That is when I decided that 60 lbs should be safe.

Since then I’ve been all across the USA from Florida to California through the desserts and to Montana across to Mackinaw Michigan and back to West Texas in the summer heat. I’ve now totaled over 30K miles on my tires and the have worn evenly and still look great. I plan on replacing them by the end of this year because I feel I have gotten the best out of them. I travel consistently at 65 MPH on the highways.

Based on MY experience I will stick to this routine. That Goodyear tires weight reference chart reads in Lbs; Airstreams are weighed in Lbs too. Therefore it made sense to me to refer to it and so far it hasn’t proven me wrong.
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Old 09-13-2021, 07:38 PM   #83
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Seems to me we’re settling in on what the purpose of the load charts are. As others have asked, if they are not intended to provide recommended pressure for a specific load environment, why publish them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KCurtis View Post
I own a 25RB Flying Cloud I tried 80Lbs as the dealer instructed for the first couple of months. After replacing several rivets after each trip I decide something was wrong. After I weighed my fully loaded trailer on CAT scales I referee to the Goodyear Endurance Tires table that has been posted in this thread. It said I should use 45 lbs. based on my total weight. That is when I decided that 60 lbs should be safe.

Since then I’ve been all across the USA from Florida to California through the desserts and to Montana across to Mackinaw Michigan and back to West Texas in the summer heat. I’ve now totaled over 30K miles on my tires and the have worn evenly and still look great. I plan on replacing them by the end of this year because I feel I have gotten the best out of them. I travel consistently at 65 MPH on the highways.

Based on MY experience I will stick to this routine. That Goodyear tires weight reference chart reads in Lbs; Airstreams are weighed in Lbs too. Therefore it made sense to me to refer to it and so far it hasn’t proven me wrong.
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Old 09-13-2021, 10:03 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by richard5933 View Post
I've asked this before and have never seen a good answer, so I'll ask again...

If the 'best' way to use Goodyear Endurance tires is to simply fill them to the max cold inflation pressure of 80psi, then why do they even bother publishing a load & inflation table. It would be much simpler for them to just instruct every user to fill them to the 80psi point and let it be. Surely the engineers at Goodyear know something about this...
A ST tire and/or other tire will end up on farm equipment, or a very old vehicle or some other situation that the manufacturer was not required or did not have a tire pressure decal. For that situation the tire manufacturer publishes a tire pressure chart which I understand is created by the Tire Industry.

It shows for a given tire, with a given load the minimum pressure needed to support that load.

And know the tire manufacturer has no clue what tire will be mated to what vehicle. Therefore the vehicle manufacture's tire decal when supplied supersedes the tire pressure charts.

Pretty sure that is correct. Pretty sure if it isn't, there will be a post to clean up my mess.

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Old 09-14-2021, 04:41 AM   #85
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Well, not sure if this is written by lawyers or engineers, but from what I can tell all tire manufactures recommend you use the cold inflation pressure recommended by the vehicle manufacturer. Goodyear is very specific:

"IMPORTANT: It's a common practice for RV owners to lower tire pressure in their search for a smoother ride. This is not only dangerous, it's relatively ineffective, as the difference in ride quality is not significant. When minimum inflation pressure requirements are not met, tire durability and optimum operating conditions are compromised. Tire inflation pressure should always meet at least the minimum guidelines for vehicle weight." (https://www.goodyearrvtires.com/tire...n-loading.aspx )

I've looked at similar information from Toyo, Firestone, tires.com etc. The load/inflation charts are intended for situations where you are selecting an alternative size or type tire to the ones supplied by the RV manufacturer. Then you should use the recommended pressure based on the maximum load seen on any tire on a particular axel. Then use that pressure for all tires on that axel. Of course if you back that information out from the Goodyear charts, it would come out to 2800 pounds per tire (at 80 PSI) or a total vehicle load of over 11k pounds.

I think what's going on here is the tire manufacturers want to ensure the liability for under-inflation accidents lies strictly with the vehicle manufacturers and if owners use the information they supply for these products based on owner calculations, they do so at their own risk. I'd be surprised if one of our resident tire engineers would contradict that norm and give a thumb's up to calculating your own pressures.

Years ago I had a blowout on a different travel trailer that damaged the sheetmetal. The insurance company adjuster came out and asked if I still had the tire that blew out. All I had were the shredded fragments. They did not check the pressure of the remaining tires. Maybe if the accident had injured or killed someone they would have checked that to see if the tires were to mfg specs.
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Old 09-14-2021, 05:26 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jondrew55 View Post
The charts say "TIRE LOAD LIMITS (LBS) AT VARIOUS COLD INFLATION PRESSURES (PSI) USED IN NORMAL HIGHWAY SERVICE*". .....
A load limit is a maximum. It means that at that pressure that load value is the limit you can load to.

If you approach it from the other direction, it means if you want to carry the load listed, you need to use AT LEAST that amount of pressure.
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Old 09-14-2021, 10:18 AM   #87
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Tire Engineers weigh in

I would be interested to know what type of airstream the tire engineers have, GVWR and/or what weight they load the trailer and what pressures they use. I’d follow that.
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Old 09-14-2021, 10:36 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandN View Post
I would be interested to know what type of airstream the tire engineers have, GVWR and/or what weight they load the trailer and what pressures they use. I’d follow that.
Not really relevant as a tire is a tire and all inflation is measured in PSI on this side of the pond.

Follow their posts and it should become clear what they "advise."

I'm at 74, but my parameters....Better high than not enough.

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Old 09-14-2021, 11:31 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by WHUDS22 View Post
Understood,

I was not clear when I read my statement, I do not mean to say underinflate but to run at a lower PSI somwhere between 65 and 75, this allows for air to expand when heated. Also a softer ride

Just from some "other experienced" people

But it feels a little hostile in the thread, I'm not a tire expert

So peace out



When developing and testing tires we never let air out of a warm tire and only specify and set pressure when the tire is at ambient temperature. Depending ton the testing done the ambient temperature may be 20°F when doing snow traction testing or it may be 100°F in a tire test chamber.
It could even be argued that tire engineers depend on the increased pressure to allow the tire to run longer.


I apologize if I come across too strong. I will admit to getting frustrated at providing the same answers to the same questions over and over and over, as I have been doing for the last 10 years on various RV forums and in the 500 posts in my Tire Safety Blog.
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Old 09-14-2021, 11:33 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Action View Post
A ST tire and/or other tire will end up on farm equipment, or a very old vehicle or some other situation that the manufacturer was not required or did not have a tire pressure decal. For that situation the tire manufacturer publishes a tire pressure chart which I understand is created by the Tire Industry.

It shows for a given tire, with a given load the minimum pressure needed to support that load.

And know the tire manufacturer has no clue what tire will be mated to what vehicle. Therefore the vehicle manufacture's tire decal when supplied supersedes the tire pressure charts.

Pretty sure that is correct. Pretty sure if it isn't, there will be a post to clean up my mess.

Action



You got it right.
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Old 09-14-2021, 12:34 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by Tireman9 View Post
I apologize if I come across too strong. I will admit to getting frustrated at providing the same answers to the same questions over and over and over, as I have been doing for the last 10 years on various RV forums and in the 500 posts in my Tire Safety Blog.
I get it. Every few months (weeks?) new chuckleheads like me start asking the same questions that have been answered ad nauseam.
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Old 09-14-2021, 02:29 PM   #92
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My problem was NOT overinflation

Just replaced the tires I mentioned earlier. After inspecting them, it is clear the tread damage was not caused by over inflation. The tread damage was not uniformly on the center tread, it was in diagonal bands across the treads. It was caused by the brakes locking. This occurred quite a lot when we first purchased our Caravel; we set the gain too high. If I can get it to work, I will attach a photo. Anyway, I am no longer convinced running the tires at 80psi causes undue wear or shortens the life of the tires. Setting the brake gain wrong definitely will.
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Old 09-14-2021, 03:13 PM   #93
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Thanks for posting and the thread is getting off topic.

I don't want to shut down a discussion.
There is no issue with starting a new thread with your situation.

And it seems the OP hasn't posted for a long time and the thread has drifted off.

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Old 09-14-2021, 03:53 PM   #94
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Just replaced the tires I mentioned earlier. After inspecting them, it is clear the tread damage was not caused by over inflation. The tread damage was not uniformly on the center tread, it was in diagonal bands across the treads. It was caused by the brakes locking. This occurred quite a lot when we first purchased our Caravel; we set the gain too high. If I can get it to work, I will attach a photo. Anyway, I am no longer convinced running the tires at 80psi causes undue wear or shortens the life of the tires. Setting the brake gain wrong definitely will.



What you have in the tire in the picture is called "Diagonal Wear" according to tire industry condition manuals. The guide states "Localized flat spots worn diagonally across the tread at approximately 25° to 35° angles often repeating around the tread circumference."
Probable cause "Improper bearing adjustment, toe-out, mismounting and other application issues"


Proper tire inspection should identify this condition early on so corrective action can be taken. You could try and reverse the direction of rotation before the condition gets severe.
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Old 09-14-2021, 03:53 PM   #95
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Now you'll excuse me while I concentrate on a fight in a cooking forum about whether to salt the water before or after it boils when making pasta.

Hilarious…

…Because the timing of the salt doesn’t matter either.
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Old 09-14-2021, 03:58 PM   #96
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Looking at the two flat spots,(are there more) it appears a balance concern, bad shock, if it has them, will also contribute.

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Old 09-14-2021, 06:13 PM   #97
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Hilarious…

…Because the timing of the salt doesn’t matter either.
Not true… a pile of salt at the bottom of your pot while it heats can cause corrosion.
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Old 09-14-2021, 06:28 PM   #98
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Not true… a pile of salt at the bottom of your pot while it heats can cause corrosion.
Never noticed that on stainless steel. But pasta is not a part of our regular meal rotation...maybe once a quarter. When we do cook pasta, we sprinkle kosher salt around a large shallow (two-inch deep) pan instead of dumping it in a pile. It dissolves instantly. Come to think of it, the water is probably at least somewhat warm.

It is interesting though, the weird conversations you can get into with true aficionados. I was once a witness to a conversation about freshly ground Kona coffee being pour-over brewed at 210 degrees F instead of 180 or 190. So I tried it. Couldn't tell a difference.
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Old 09-14-2021, 06:33 PM   #99
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Never noticed that on stainless steel. But pasta is not a part of our regular meal rotation...maybe once a quarter. When we do cook pasta, we sprinkle kosher salt around a large shallow (two-inch deep) pan instead of dumping it in a pile. It dissolves instantly. Come to think of it, the water is probably at least somewhat warm.

It is interesting though, the weird conversations you can get into with true aficionados. I was once a witness to a conversation about freshly ground Kona coffee being pour-over brewed at 210 degrees F instead of 180 or 190. So I tried it. Couldn't tell a difference.
It’s like wine. Most double blind testing show extremely high bias to label favoritism. I wish that were true for single malt scotch.
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Old 09-15-2021, 06:07 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by tireman9 View Post
what you have in the tire in the picture is called "diagonal wear" according to tire industry condition manuals. The guide states "localized flat spots worn diagonally across the tread at approximately 25° to 35° angles often repeating around the tread circumference."
probable cause "improper bearing adjustment, toe-out, mismounting and other application issues"


proper tire inspection should identify this condition early on so corrective action can be taken. You could try and reverse the direction of rotation before the condition gets severe.
x2!!
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