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Old 03-26-2023, 02:50 PM   #81
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After reviewing the video on a bigger screen (instead of the itty bitty iPhone), the axle-mount theory seems more plausible. That is a lot of elevation...lifting the rear wheel off the ground. Could that lift occur with the mounting bolts solidly in place? Something would have to bend. Maybe one blot (aft?) is loose, allowing the axle to twist while the other bolt remains in place.

One thought that I hesitate to mention: record the snap from underneath the trailer, aiming the camera at the mount. A small inexpensive ($25) camera could do the trick if you don't want to put the iPhone in harm's way. Or a borescope. Or attach the camera to the trailer, aimed at the mount.
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Old 04-09-2023, 07:12 PM   #82
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OP here finally reporting back some actual findings. Sorry it took so long, I work full time and since the only way we could get the issue to occur was to have driven at least 1-2 hours, so that left me with weekends. Short answer is it seems to be the settings on the brake controller, though I am unsure that they are now correct.

I talked extensively with the Mothership and the local dealer regarding this issue. I shared the video with both of them and they both had a "That's really odd we have never seen anything like that." response. After a lot of back and forth with both of them, and the Mothership support people asking some of their older engineers, the only response any of them came back with was "It's your brake controller." Not anything at all helpful other than those couple of words, I told them that this is my first trailer and that we are experienced with big Class A RVs, but this trailering is all new. Still no help. They did ask for details such as the make (including trim line?), model, year of the truck and what I had the integrated brake controller settings set to.

Needless to say we were a bit frustrated. In the middle of a trip just after we had stopped for fuel, the wheel was acting worse and started causing the brake to catch in forward just as we were pulling out of the fuel station. We stopped, pulled the 7 pin and the issues went away. We connected and the problems reappeared. It seems that something was going on between the brake controller and at least the front roadside brake (the one locking up in reverse). In the couple of weeks I had spent researching to this point, I had acquired an infrared thermometer, and while fueling I had read the temperature of all the brake drums (the front of the drum through the rim holes, I figured if something was dragging, the whole drum would heat up) and all the drums were within a couple of degrees of each other, and were all around the 110 degree range which seemed reasonable considering an ambient temp of about 70 degrees and that we had just exited the freeway a few minutes prior.

We pulled over at a kinda convenient Walmart, had lunch and tried to get a different perspective on this. We pulled out the Ram manual and re-read (I had read the manual cover to cover when we purchased the truck) any sections we could find on the brake controller and towing. They were wholly unhelpful, they used phrases like 'correct brake gain is important' and 'press the buttons to adjust the gain', 'Select light electric or heavy electric based on your trailer' and (we both like this one) 'See the accompanying DVD for more information on settings' (DW made comments about if we were really stuck on the side of the road and the manual suggesting we watch the DVD for info).

The RAM manual basically being useless, some additional googling was not overly enlightening, but re-reading the Airstream manual under towing there is a phrase that talks about threshold voltage for the brake controller. "Proper Electric Brake Use - Proper synchronization of tow vehicle to trailer braking can only be accomplished by road testing. Brake lockup, grab, or harshness is quite often due to lack of synchronization between the tow vehicle and the trailer being towed, a too-high threshold voltage (over 2 volts), or under-adjusted brakes."

Considering that 'Threshold' statement, we decided to change the brake controller setting from heavy electric to light electric, test out some braking and continue home. When we got home we did the same thing as we always did previously, parking the truck/trailer in the road, opening the house up, walking the dog, etc. and then after about 30 minutes we backed in using the same maneuvers as we had done previously. This time there was no wheel lockup/wheel hop. I would like to say we we jumping for joy, but honestly we were quite dubious considering the responses we got from the 'experts' whom indicated "It's your brake controller." but did not seem to be able to provide any additional details.

This caused me to attempt to do a deep dive into Ram's integrated brake controller operation. I work in a reasonably technical field, research is part of my job description. Needless to say, there is VERY LITTLE publicly available, authoritative knowledge available on the functioning or use of the Ram integrated brake controller. There is a lot of empirical knowledge that can be gleaned from the Ram forums, but I was unable to find anything official from Ram/Stellantis, especially regarding my 2015 model. Gathering a variety of information from the Ram forums, including from some users that attempted to reverse engineer the brake controller, I got mixed results regarding the Heavy/Light electric setting. A lot of people seemed to indicated that light electric was for trailers less than 10,000 pounds and that it was indicated as such in the manual (these people did not have 2015 trucks.). Others indicated that light electric was for trailers that had brakes on one axle while heavy electric was for trailers with brakes on all axles. So we re-re-read the manual, and watched all material on the DVD that had anything to do with towing or other settings, nothing anywhere indicated why or when you would select Heavy/Light electric for the brake controller.

In doing this research I did find some Ford documentation that talked about similar settings, in addition we found a Ford U-Tube video that talked about dynamic testing and setting the brake controller by using just the trailer brakes to stop the truck/trailer from about 20 miles per hour. We also found a number of horse U-Tube people talking about and demonstrating the same type of test.

From the above research and testing I am gathering, though not completely convinced, that there is a fundamental difference in the signal being sent out of the brake controller when in Heavy/Light electric setting, and is not just a more aggressive gain curve for the Heavy setting. I am absolutely astonished that more information is not available regarding this. This IS the electrical interface between the truck and the outside world (trailer), the interface should be documented in a manner in which the user can access.

In addition, I have decided from all this, is that brake controller knowledge seems to be discussed by dealerships and manufacturers at about the same level as high school boys talking about contact with the opposite sex, think the movie Grease. There seems to be a lot of 'you know' and 'you have to feel it' or 'it is very important that you do it right, but we cannot tell you how'. When we picked up the trailer, I had gone over the brake controller settings with the dealership representative, they thought everything was fine. When talking with the Mothership, and they asked all about what my settings were, one would think that maybe they might have some suggestions. This is a 30ft trailer, you need a HD truck to pull it, reasonably there are only three manufacturers of HD trucks to do the job, one would think that they might have some suggested starting settings for each truck model. I understand each truck is slightly different, and each trailer is slightly different, that does not keep them from giving some suggested starting points for a newbie.

So for the time being, we are now running Light Electric setting and have turned the gain down to 3. Other than this lightly annoying tendency for the trailer to try to rip it's wheel off occasionally while backing up after driving a long time, the braking performance that I had at the previous settings was much more what I would expect. Previously the truck/trailer combo would just brake as one and come to a nice stop. Now it feels as if the truck is doing much more of the braking effort and I need to apply much more braking effort. I will keep testing things out and see if I can up the gain setting to get a better braking feeling, but honestly we are a bit gun shy to try too many changes.

We took a test trip, about 1 1/2 hr each way, just to test out these new brake settings and things functioned 'normally' in that there was not any wheel hop when putting the trailer away, but that the truck/trailer combination required more braking force than I would like. It is not as much that the trailer is pushing the truck, just that it is not helping as much as it could.

I appreciate all the suggestions and the suggestion to just pull the 7 pin while it was occurring is what finally got us to where we are. I am not sure how long that would have have taken me to try without the suggestion.
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Old 04-09-2023, 07:52 PM   #83
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You have a very interesting story about your problem. I thought you may be interested to know on my 2019 F250 pulling a 23' FC after some experimenting I ended up setting my controller on the light setting with the gain set on three. If you need some more trailer brake try increasing your gain a half notch at a time.
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Old 04-09-2023, 08:07 PM   #84
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Gypsycoder - Thanks for the follow-up. Informative. Real data. Well written.
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Old 04-09-2023, 08:40 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsycoder View Post
OP here finally reporting back some actual findings. ...

...We took a test trip, about 1 1/2 hr each way, just to test out these new brake settings and things functioned 'normally' in that there was not any wheel hop when putting the trailer away, but that the truck/trailer combination required more braking force than I would like. It is not as much that the trailer is pushing the truck, just that it is not helping as much as it could....
I'm wondering if expectations are playing a part in all this. Are you expecting your trailer brakes to supply all the braking for the extra weight of the trailer in the combination?

In my combination I also have to apply slightly more braking in the TV when hitched up than when driving the TV alone. The brakes in the trailer are helping, but the truck's brakes are doing more work than without the trailer. If I set the trailer's brakes to do all the braking for the trailer I get some weird effects, mostly wheel lockups on the trailer on any road surface which isn't perfectly dry & clean. Since there is no way for the driver to have any 'feel' of the road when applying the brakes on the trailer like we can with the truck, there is no way for us to set things so they are perfect, and so we opt for slightly less than doing all the braking for the trailer.
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Old 04-09-2023, 09:22 PM   #86
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I can't see how this is brake controller related if it is only happening on one wheel. There have been known failures of brakes locking up due to loose hardware. Applying the brakes can cause this to happen but if it were controller related I would expect it to happen on more than one wheel. The simplest answer is to jack it up, pull the wheel and drum and make sure there are no loose parts and that it is the proper brake for the location.


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Old 04-09-2023, 11:04 PM   #87
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More.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Al and Missy View Post
I can't see how this is brake controller related if it is only happening on one wheel. There have been known failures of brakes locking up due to loose hardware. Applying the brakes can cause this to happen but if it were controller related I would expect it to happen on more than one wheel. The simplest answer is to jack it up, pull the wheel and drum and make sure there are no loose parts and that it is the proper brake for the location.


Al

Looking at the video I see, at the very end, the rear tire rotating forward slightly and kicking gravel. This might indicate that it was under some tension, or it could just be from stopping, but the front tire doesn't kick any gravel.

Also, I'm guessing the noise is the front brake hopping when the torque exceeds the friction force of the brake shoe on the drum.

Take a look at where the brake cable exits the drums. From the pictures on e-Trailer of Nevr-Adjust brakes, the brake cable exits the backing plate behind the axle. Unless Airstream modified the routing when they installed them, all four brakes should have the brake cable exiting the backing plate behind the center of the drum plate..
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Old 04-10-2023, 03:16 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al and Missy View Post
I can't see how this is brake controller related if it is only happening on one wheel. There have been known failures of brakes locking up due to loose hardware. Applying the brakes can cause this to happen but if it were controller related I would expect it to happen on more than one wheel. The simplest answer is to jack it up, pull the wheel and drum and make sure there are no loose parts and that it is the proper brake for the location.

Al
Could be a convergence of small things causing one wheel to be affected rather than all of them...

- One drum is slightly out of round, making a lock up situation more possible,
- Slightly over adjusted brakes on the affected wheel,
- Brake controller set too aggressively.

I have one ever-so-slightly out of round drum and it will lock on gravel or wet pavement sooner than the other three, and it's much worse if I've got the controller set too aggressively.
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Old 04-10-2023, 06:08 AM   #89
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I can’t offer any insight on the wheel hopping phenomenon, but I think a gain setting of 3 is too light. With my 27FB and ‘17 F-250 using the factory brake controller I typically set the gain to 6 or 6.5. A 30 footer should need more???
When I first pull out of the driveway and get up to 20-30 mph I reach down and activate the trailer brakes fully. If I feel a significant braking effort from the trailer I’m happy. Then I get to a stop sign and reevaluate the braking, maybe bump it up or down a little.
I think I’ve used a gain setting of 3 while hauling an empty car hauler and that was about right.
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Old 04-10-2023, 06:10 AM   #90
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Listen to the advise from Al and Missy

Has any body yet taken that drum off and inspected the drum for roundness and finish and checked the linings and springs and manually re adjusted it? For whatever reason the brake shoe on that wheel is "grabbing". At this point if it were me I would just take it to a brake shop and pay to have it inspected and possibly replaced, maybe even if they say there is nothing wrong. A drum turn and new linings is not a terrible expense.

Yes, there are expectations of all kinds to deal with. Both with warranty service and with brakes. Some expect the trailer to stop the trailer and the TV to stop the TV. I do not, I dial my trailer brakes in fairly lightly. I do not want them to over heat on a down grade or to lock under damp conditions,
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Old 04-10-2023, 06:23 AM   #91
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You’ve got to pull that drum off and see what’s happening to cause a lock up on just that one wheel.

Also, I would expect there should be no power going to the trailer brakes when the brake pedal is not being applied, it would be easy to test with a meter or even just a test light if the truck is sending a signal when the brakes are not being applied.
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Old 04-10-2023, 07:05 AM   #92
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Great follow-up for what you have found.
Light electric - 3 - This needs to be much higher if you feel the truck doing most of the braking.
I once borrowed my brothers Ram truck with the integrated controller for a trip when mine was in the shop. I remember fiddling with the brake controller to get it right for my 30' AS. On light electric I had to dial in the number much higher than heavy electric which was a lower number. To me the gain was higher on heavy electric - I liked this setting better.
As stated above - the trailer hubs need to pulled for inspection a long time ago.
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Old 04-10-2023, 08:07 AM   #93
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Your front wheel was locking and your rear was not. To my understanding, a brake controller just sends voltage to the brakes; I doubt that it differentiates in what voltage it sends to any particular wheel. I don't see how it could; there is only one wire in the seven pin connector. In any event, put me in the camp which thinks your brake is defective. I don't see how a brake controller could cause this problem.
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Old 04-10-2023, 08:12 AM   #94
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It seems to me that a new backing plate/brake assembly is in order for the offending wheel. When I replaced my four backing plate/brake assemblies some years ago, one wheel got very hot during each trip. I could not find any issue with that assembly. There was no apparent difference between any of the assemblies. I talked to the manufacturer and tried everything they suggested, nothing worked. They then sent me a new backing plate/brake assembly (single wheel). I replaced the offending assembly and have had no issues since. Still do not know what was wrong, but obviously something was different on the one assembly.
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Old 04-10-2023, 11:19 AM   #95
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I agree with the others who recommend pulling the drum and taking a look.
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Old 04-11-2023, 07:03 AM   #96
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Another good test to try, jack up each wheel and spin wheel. Brakes should be dragging some and if the amount of dragging is very uneven the drum is probably out of round.
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Old 04-11-2023, 02:30 PM   #97
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Another vote for single defective brake and not controller-caused.
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Old 04-12-2023, 09:45 AM   #98
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If you're not going to disassemble that brake assembly, you might disconnect the brake wire to that wheel and test it. If the problem doesn't appear, then you know it's with the brakes on that wheel and you will need to take it apart to see what's wrong.

Have you taken heat measurements of the wheels after driving for hours or checked tire pressures? If the front brake is adjusted a bit too tight, it may be building up a lot of heat and causing your problem.
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Old 04-12-2023, 11:03 AM   #99
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I think the main issue here is the OP wants Airstream to diagnose and repair the brake under warranty. And that the dealer will not take his word that there is an issue because it worked fine when the dealer had iit in to look at.
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Old 05-10-2023, 12:59 PM   #100
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Out of Options? Try this on a dirt or gravel road

Disconnect the two small wires that operate the wheel with the problem. They are easy to find, as they are hanging out so anything can snag and break them.

Bring a wire twist tie and some electrical tape to reconnect. Indicate which wire goes to the drum electric brake to keep that straight.

I do not know if brake wire polarity is different for the wires. If so, maybe check that as well.

These brakes are primitive excuses for any travel trailer. Cheapest option out there. Some day... disc brakes?
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