Oh No, Marathon issue!

[Bruce B]

My first Marathon failure!
When driving home with our new Airstream last month I noticed a vibration at certain road speeds. The vibration seemed to come and go, so I wondered if it might be related to the road surface. When we got home after 250 miles of driving I gave the tires a visual inspection, checked lug nuts for tightness, checked tire pressure and shrugged. The next weekend we drove to Cape Cod to camp and on the trip I felt the vibration again, this time on a stretch of brand new pavement, it went away after just a few minutes. Now, let me add that I own an auto repair business and we do a small but steady amount of very high tech tire work. I am talking about some high end; fussy, tire mounting that requires some state of the art equipment to handle. We do it. Anyway I had my suspicions about the tires on the trailer although the vibration was brief and very subtle it was definitely there. Sooo… today I jacked up the trailer and put her on jack stands (she looked so sad! ), then I took the tires into work to see what I would find.
First up was the right side tire, I set it up on the Road Force balancer and gave it a spin. It needed 90 grams of weight to bring it into balance but the tire was nice and round (wheel/tire eccentricity or roundness is what Road Force balancing checks). I added weight and re-checked to be sure. Next came the left side tire. As I set it up on the balancer I could see that there was an issue. I performed the measurement anyway and sure enough we had Road Force numbers that I had never seen before! This baby was square! I called a local Goodyear dealer that we do business with and he had tires in stock. Next I called Goodyear to see how to proceed. It is good when you speak their language; I had a replacement authorization in about 30 seconds. I took the bad tire to the Goodyear dealer, had it swapped and brought it back to my shop “just to see”. Perfect balance and very low Road Force numbers, the new tire is nice and round.
Is there a lesson here? My only thoughts are that if it seems strange or unusual perhaps a check before total failure is a good thing. I am very happy that I caught this before I suffered a blow out. That it was headed that way is certain, the tire had no road damage and it was clear that it was coming apart….
Scary huh?
In the FWIW department, we see all kinds of brand new tires that are not round when we first install them. Michelin, Pirelli, Goodyear, Yokohama, the list goes on and on. All manufacturers will warranty a new, out of round tire. I guess I’m not ready to throw the Marathons out yet but I’ll be watching them very closely.
Bruce

[Steamy1]

Thank you for taking the time to describe your experience. Always something to learn for others.

I am very happy with my 16" wheels and Michelin tires, but anything can fail.

[Airslide]

Hey Bruce,

Since you have a road force balancer it would be interesting to see the results after 5000 miles or so. We too use a high end Hunter road force balancer and it picks up everything. I would think it would have no problem identifying a GYM. Keep a close eye on them and remember a blow out on a single axle is a different animal than tandems..

Vinnie

[Bruce B]

Originally Posted by Airslide

Hey Bruce,

......remember a blow out on a single axle is a different animal that tandems..

Vinnie

Vinnie,
Just the thought of a blowout is going to force me into watching this carefully. I am not paranoid by nature but I will certainly be removing these tires for a follow-up spin/check in the future. I'm just glad I was curious enough to go looking!
Bruce

[mojo]

Well it's definitely a plus that you are able to confirm your suspicions and talk the talk with the manufacturer. All my experiences with tire issues (out of round) or failures have been a losing battle over warranties with the "local" tire salesman. All you can do is take your business somewhere else.

[Bruce B]

Originally Posted by mojo

Well it's definitely a plus that you are able to confirm your suspicions and talk the talk with the manufacturer. All my experiences with tire issues (out of round) or failures have been a losing battle over warranties with the "local" tire salesman. All you can do is take your business somewhere else.

I do "speak the language" so I know what to ask for, but my point in this post was to show others that no manufacturer ignores quantitative data (at least in my experience). That is exactly what the Road Force balancer gives you. It is something of a p.i.t.a to pull the tires and check but it is less a pain than a blow out......
Bruce

[Airslide]

Good post Bruce,

I know your point wasn't to drag us down the Goodyear Marathon statistic story again... but only to show us a bit about new diagnostic technology.

Thanks for that...

Keep us posted.

Vinnie

[SilverRanger]

So far, I've had good luck with both sets of Marathons. But, as pointed out in a previous post, the performance of the tires on a single axle trailer is critical. The more information about ways to detect and prevent problems, the better. It's especially enlightening to get information from those who are in the business.

Thanks.

[moosetags]

Good and thoughtful post, Bruce. Current information is never flogging a dead horse. I feel that tire issues are very important, and cannot be over reported.

Brian

[tetstream]

FYI to All -

I just voluntarily replaced my OEM Marathons due to age. The date of manufacture on the sidewall was "2006", so 20th week of 2006. The tires had very, very low miles, all highway. When the trailer was not used, it was on jacks to take the weight off the tires and the tires were covered.

Off the trailer, the tires looked basically new. I had the tire shop inspect them and one was showing signs of delamination on the inside sidewall.

So, either the concern with age is true (low use or high use), or the GYM tires are poor, or both.

Beware.

[prop66]

Tetstream,

May I ask what kind of tires you decided on for your Bambi?

[tetstream]

After researching, I decided to buy DynaTrails, in the OEM 15" size, ST225/75-R15D. Reasons were bascially two:

1) Michelin completed a joint venture with DoubleCoin, the manufacturer of the Dynatrails (yes, Chinese). They are building a huge plant under this venture. I figure if DoubleCoin is good enough for Michelin, then I'll give them a shot. Also, Double Coin makes commercial truck tires.

2) DynaTrails are handled at Les Schwab Tire stores. Les Schwab has been very good to me, they have great warranties, and their tire stores are everywhere.

BTW - my Marathons were made in Canada. . . . . . ..

[Tireman9]

Bruce B
Sounds like you were lucky. Other than out of round (uniformity) do you believe there was a detachment of tread or belts? If so did you file a complaint with NHTSA?

I am surprised that bunformity issue would come and go.

[Bruce B]

Originally Posted by Tireman9

Bruce B
Sounds like you were lucky. Other than out of round (uniformity) do you believe there was a detachment of tread or belts? If so did you file a complaint with NHTSA?

I am surprised that bunformity issue would come and go.

I have no Idea if this was the beginning of tread/belt separation or if the tire was just a really poor example. Goodyear tire sidewalls always look awful to me but this one was particularly bad with lots of lumps and bumps.

No I did not report it to NHTSA.

I have experienced tires that have symptoms that come and go before. In fact the Pirelli Scorpions on my truck have exhibited this trait. This is the last time I purchase Pirelli's for my own use....
3 of the last set of 4 had to be replaced within 5 thousand miles!

I suspect that whatever was wrong with my Marathon tire was the beginning if something that would not end well and Goodyear did not hesitate to offer a replacement....

I will give them a chance. If anything happens, Ill switch to something else.

Bruce
Bruce

[SL4BLLT]

Bruce B,
I did NOT have this problem with my Airstream tires, but four Michelin "E" loads on my 2005 Duramax, TV.

After having purchased them at a close out sale as the store was being refurbished, they vibrated badly at 48 MPH. I returned back to the dealership and they stated they needed to be tested. I brought the truck into the Michelin dealership/rep, sure enough, they were out of round. Their comment seeing the place I purchased them was see if you can get them to exchange them when they reopen. I go back with less than 8K on all four tires and of course different management.
So the bottom line is, I'll go back to Firestone Transformers that I have run for years on my TV's.
I still have the tires on the truck, I picked up the Airstream today and do not plan on doing any cross country trips in the near future, but will replace the tires.
Other than that vibration at 48MPH, they feel otherwise ok.

I guess I'll get a hold of the NHSTA and provide the report of the non-repair and let them know that the Michelin rep here, was not interested in this coming out of their pockets.

Of course they were more than willing to sell me another set of tires.

Thanks for the insight, and it appears it happens to many different manufactured tires. After reading you information, Tires may become a priority this week.

Safe travels and Happy Airstreaming!

Happy Easter to all!

SL4BLLT

[boondockdad]

Bruce,

Reading about GYM's, I break out in a cold sweat

Seriously, I've had 442 tread separation blow outs with these Faberge eggs. That's with TPMS, balancing, CAT scaling every time I load the rig, and never exceeding 65mph.

OK, I'm exaggerating (on the number of tire failures) only because blow-outs while underway put a major huge damper on vacations... especially when a tread separates and flails the side of the trailer like a 6' reinforced rubber whip in the hands of a master who's arm is like a 15" rim spinning around at what seems like 2111 revolutions per mile (if this slave/master metaphor were traveling).. the thrashing, and smoke and odor and... well, you get the idea.

Anyway, after four failures, and one potential failure, I've replaced with 16" rims and Michelin LTX tires.

Two questions for you:

1. Is roadforce balancing necessary on my brand new LTX's? Discount Tire wants $20/ea. Licking my wounds on springing for 5 new rims and tires as it is...

2. Would dynamic wheel balancers provide any benefit (centramatics)?

Thanks

[starcraft]

Let's everyone know with ST tires to be careful. I know what your saying about pirelli scorpions had a set on a tacoma and never liked them. Michilens and BFG KOs my favorite truck tires. I just put Commadore ST tires on from Big O have not read any bad info on them so figure may as well be tester. You want to see bad tire Goodyear ST truck tires horrible many jeeps came stock with them flats and sidewall issues.

[dcheshire]

Is this what you mean by a bad sidewall? should this be replaced immediately? We do mostly 100 mile each way trips to camp, so no blasting across the desert for 5 hours at a time.

[overlander63]

Originally Posted by dcheshire

Is this what you mean by a bad sidewall? should this be replaced immediately? We do mostly 100 mile each way trips to camp, so no blasting across the desert for 5 hours at a time.

That's entirely normal, and where the belts join. A bulge, rather than an indent, is a problem.

[Tireman9]

dcheshire
The indentation is at the location of a body ply splice. What happens is that normally you have one or two layers (depending on size) of body cord to retain the pressure. During tire assembly there is a splice (or number of splices) and if the splice overlap is a bit larger than normal the result is lower forces on the extra layer. This means it stretches less so there is less sidewall stretch relative to the rest of the sidewall.

Let me know if you need more info.