Oh No, Marathon issue!

[Bruce B]

It is funny, I really wanted to believe the Marathons supplied with my trailer would be fine. I understand that Goodyear had problems with the first Chinese made tires. I really expected that after that experience all kinks would be worked out.

To be fair, I never did experience any catastrophic tire failures while on the road. I simply found that each of my Marathons developed an out of round condition that called for tire replacement. One when brand new the other after 12,000 miles.

Unless one owns a Roadforce balancer (I do) I can not imagine how a person would have ever discerned that the tires had issues. Sure, anyone riding in a car with these tires mounted would have noticed a bad vibration, even after balancing. The fact is these tires look perfect to my eye. Inside and out mounted and dismounted they appear fine.

I have seen my share of new out of round (high roadforce) tires, even Michelins. I have never had any tire company refuse to replace a new tire that exhibits these symptoms. Never, no questions asked.

I may have simply been unlucky or I may have hit a pothole (rim is very straight though) who knows? I only know that I am no longer comfortable running the Marathons. I am switching to Michelin LT's and fully expect them to perform their task perfectly.

There is no need to berate anyone for their choice of tire when clearly many people have had issues with their ST tires. There is no law that prevents an LT from trailer service as long as care is given to verify the tires are within their load capacity.

I hope no one ever experiences any tire failure!

Bruce

[SteveSueMac]

Phoenix - do the polls have insight into the number of STs on trailers vs LTs? If 89/8900 STs blow, that's 1%. If 1/10 LTs blow, that's 10%. Do you have a way of getting at that view?

Bruce - agreed - no matter the choice, mocking isn't appropriate and here's hoping everyone has safe travels all the time.

[Phoenix]

Unfortunately, that question arose after the poll was completed; and there was no way to go back and add it, after the fact. At the time, the main purpose of the poll was to get a handle on the type and quantity of defects, and the failed tire brands. Short of sending a PM to each of the poll participants, I don't think it's possible to extract the total number of tires by brand, at this time.

My gut feeling is that most of the poll respondents probably had GYMs or ST tires when the poll was first released, as the 16-inch wheel and LT tire mod had only been implemented by a few "pioneers", led by Bob Thompson in 2005. See original "tire" link, below:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f438...res-16506.html

It might be interesting to start a revised poll to see what's happening now, since many more have converted to 16-inch wheels and tires, and there are a lot of new Airstream owners that weren't AirForums members at the time the original poll was released. Then, more information on tires that just wore out (with no failures) could be captured, along with better details on tire brands. However, constructing the poll question is very time consuming; and polls can't be edited after being posted. Perhaps, a moderator could assist this time, to make the process a little easier?

[xrvr]

It would be interesting to know the load ratings and number of plies of the failed st tires. My tire guy will not put anything but ten ply or occasionally 8 ply tires on any RV. He also will only use metal valve stems and insists on max tire pressures. He says most rv use underrated tires that are not up to the task. He will not mount p rated tires on a travel trailer and says lt tires are okay as long as they fit. Ten ply st tires do not have to be run at 65 mph or less. Jim

[xrvr]

I meant my tire guy will only mount 8 or 10 ply ST tires or LT tires if the weight is ok. Jim

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

Unfortunately, that question arose after the poll was completed; and there was no way to go back and add it, after the fact. At the time, the main purpose of the poll was to get a handle on the type and quantity of defects, and the failed tire brands. Short of sending a PM to each of the poll participants, I don't think it's possible to extract the total number of tires by brand, at this time.

My gut feeling is that most of the poll respondents probably had GYMs or ST tires when the poll was first released, as the 16-inch wheel and LT tire mod had only been implemented by a few "pioneers", led by Bob Thompson in 2005. See original "tire" link, below:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f438...res-16506.html

It might be interesting to start a revised poll to see what's happening now, since many more have converted to 16-inch wheels and tires, and there are a lot of new Airstream owners that weren't AirForums members at the time the original poll was released. Then, more information on tires that just wore out (with no failures) could be captured, along with better details on tire brands. However, constructing the poll question is very time consuming; and polls can't be edited after being posted. Perhaps, a moderator could assist this time, to make the process a little easier?

Unfortunately, the key bit of information is the size of the population for each tire - either type of tire or brand. That way, you can compare failure rates. While it is interesting to know what the percentages are of the tires that failed, it doesn't tell us about how each compares to the other.

The poll doesn't and can't address that issue. Neither does searching in the NHTSA data.

And no amount of emails or phone calls is going to get that information. This is considered highly proprietary by the tire manufacturers. The only group that has this info is the federal government - and they have agreed to withhold the information from the public as part of the bargain to get the data from the tire manufacturers on failures - part of the TREAD Act.

And for people who are interested, there are some loopholes in the reporting requirements, and it is quite possible for some of the tires of interest here to NOT be reported at all to NHTSA. In that case, not even the government knows how many were produced (or imported).

[tarnished]

I had a Kumho tire failure after 3500 miles on a Casita a couple of years
ago. I bought an Argosy 7.3 Minuet that came with GYMs and have put
9000 miles on them in the last 18 mos. Still look good.

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by LFC

There's plenty of Michelin tire failures listed...

Michelin Tire Consumer Complaints

Another thing to consider is how many more trailers are running ST tires compared to the number of people running LT truck tires on trailers.

I'm sure if there was a way to figure it out the percentage of ST and LT tire failures would be close.

Thanks for the link.
I find it interesting that so many people are prepared to "complain" about their tires but
1. Can't be bothered to get the correct "model" or Line or Design of tires correct. (How is "All Season Radial" a model ?) and
2. Can't be bothered to actually file a complete complaint with appropriate actionable information with NHTSA.

Examples of shoddy complaint:
- a 145/60R14.5 on Mercedes E320 but no DOT serial provided
- in one case "The vehicle was not taken to have the failures diagnosed or repaired. The manufacturer was not made aware of the failures." But this person somehow expects Michelin to do something.
- a complaint about a Michelin "Eagle". Seems strange that Michelin is making a Goodyear brand tire.

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by CapriRacer

Unfortunately, the key bit of information is the size of the population for each tire - either type of tire or brand. That way, you can compare failure rates. While it is interesting to know what the percentages are of the tires that failed, it doesn't tell us about how each compares to the other.

The poll doesn't and can't address that issue. Neither does searching in the NHTSA data.

And no amount of emails or phone calls is going to get that information. This is considered highly proprietary by the tire manufacturers. The only group that has this info is the federal government - and they have agreed to withhold the information from the public as part of the bargain to get the data from the tire manufacturers on failures - part of the TREAD Act.

And for people who are interested, there are some loopholes in the reporting requirements, and it is quite possible for some of the tires of interest here to NOT be reported at all to NHTSA. In that case, not even the government knows how many were produced (or imported).

I agree that there a number of holes. One of the biggest is the owner of the "failed" tire. For NHTSA to start an investigation they need facts that relate to the tire and its condition. Too often people do not provide the correct or any DOT serial. They often do not get the size or design correct, but they seem to believe that providing information on where they were going as important.
We also see on this forum as well as on others very few owners can properly diagnose the tire condition or reason for the failure. Even supposedly knowledgeable users like Sean and Kristy Michael of Long Long Honeymoon .com

[ROBERTSUNRUS]

Hi, My latest.

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS

Hi, My latest.

Very interesting. If you had described this using words, I would have diagnosed this as irregular wear - spotty wear on a diagonal. That's why photos are vitally important to diagnosis - and better yet, the tire itself.

If I had this tire in front of me to diagnose, I would want to do shearography on it.

[crispyboy]

Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS

Hi, My latest.

So is this a irregular wear pattern or has the tire been subjected to brake lockup?
That tire must make a lot of vibration and noise....

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS

Hi, My latest.

I agree with Capri, but lacking a Sherograph machine in your home garage
I would check for run-out.
Fifthwheel Tire Wobble.mov - YouTube

I would also have the tire inspected at a Goodyear tire store.

Brake flat-spot normally has an oval shape centered on the tread.
Diagonal wear is more likely on the rear of front wheel drive cars and in more than one location around the tire.

You could have an open belt ply splice. If Open splice then that is a factory misproduction and should be adjusted under warranty.

[ROBERTSUNRUS]

Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS

Hi, My latest.

Originally Posted by CapriRacer

Very interesting. If you had described this using words, I would have diagnosed this as irregular wear - spotty wear on a diagonal. That's why photos are vitally important to diagnosis - and better yet, the tire itself.

If I had this tire in front of me to diagnose, I would want to do shearography on it.

Originally Posted by crispyboy

So is this a irregular wear pattern or has the tire been subjected to brake lockup?
That tire must make a lot of vibration and noise....

Originally Posted by Tireman9

I agree with Capri, but lacking a Sherograph machine in your home garage
I would check for run-out.
Fifthwheel Tire Wobble.mov - YouTube

I would also have the tire inspected at a Goodyear tire store.

Brake flat-spot normally has an oval shape centered on the tread.
Diagonal wear is more likely on the rear of front wheel drive cars and in more than one location around the tire.

You could have an open belt ply splice. If Open splice then that is a factory misproduction and should be adjusted under warranty.

Hi, this was another tire separation. The dark, or flat spots were the first thing that I noticed. Hard to see, but the outside tread gap was a bit wider. There was no vibration, no thumping, no brake lock up, no alignment problems and at six years of age, Goodyear wouldn't do anything for me and I wouldn't ask them either based on past experiences. I replaced my two oldest tires. [this one and the one in front of it]

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS

Hi, this was another tire separation. The dark, or flat spots were the first thing that I noticed. Hard to see, but the outside tread gap was a bit wider. There was no vibration, no thumping, no brake lock up, no alignment problems and at six years of age, Goodyear wouldn't do anything for me and I wouldn't ask them either based on past experiences. I replaced my two oldest tires. [this one and the one in front of it]

Don't get me wrong. I think the tire is separated. But it is unusual and the point I was trying to make was if someone had just used words and not a photo, it's quite possible that it would have been dismissed as irregular wear.

[daveswenson]

When people report GYM failures it would be nice if they would provide date codes from the failed tires to see if a certain time period produced tires more prone to failure.

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS

Hi, this was another tire separation. The dark, or flat spots were the first thing that I noticed. Hard to see, but the outside tread gap was a bit wider. There was no vibration, no thumping, no brake lock up, no alignment problems and at six years of age, Goodyear wouldn't do anything for me and I wouldn't ask them either based on past experiences. I replaced my two oldest tires. [this one and the one in front of it]

Why aren't you filing a complaint with NHTSA?
You are doing a disservice to the RV community by not providing NHTSA with actionable data.
I believe if half of those that spend time complaining about tire failures of RV forums filed complaints (with full DOT serial) and bothered to snap a couple of well lit pictures we would be having tire recalls and we would all see an improvement in the quality of the tires on our rigs.

To me complaining on a forum but not filing a complaint is like complaining about your elected officials but not bothering to learn the facts and to actually take the time to vote. I believe if you don't vote you don't deserve the right to complain.

[ROBERTSUNRUS]

Originally Posted by Tireman9

Why aren't you filing a complaint with NHTSA?
You are doing a disservice to the RV community by not providing NHTSA with actionable data.
I believe if half of those that spend time complaining about tire failures of RV forums filed complaints (with full DOT serial) and bothered to snap a couple of well lit pictures we would be having tire recalls and we would all see an improvement in the quality of the tires on our rigs.

To me complaining on a forum but not filing a complaint is like complaining about your elected officials but not bothering to learn the facts and to actually take the time to vote. I believe if you don't vote you don't deserve the right to complain.

Hi, I totally disagree with you. I'll be dead and gone decades before anyone [NHTSA] does anything to make these tires any better. Your vote is just another number being tossed into the big trash can. If you are referring to me, I have only told about replacing my tires and why, but never complained. I took my first two tires to several Goodyear tire dealers and all any of them said was that I ran over something. Tires are made to run over things every day; My Lincoln ran over everything that my trailer ran over, but never had a failure. To me, tires are just like gas, when you need more, you just buy them.

If anyone could, and should, convince NHTSA that there is a real problem with these tires, it should be the two tire engineers on this forum; They won't, and don't, believe us.

[dannydimitt]

Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS

Hi, I totally disagree with you. I'll be dead and gone decades before anyone [NHTSA] does anything to make these tires any better. Your vote is just another number being tossed into the big trash can. If you are referring to me, I have only told about replacing my tires and why, but never complained. I took my first two tires to several Goodyear tire dealers and all any of them said was that I ran over something. Tires are made to run over things every day; My Lincoln ran over everything that my trailer ran over, but never had a failure. To me, tires are just like gas, when you need more, you just buy them.

If anyone could, and should, convince NHTSA that there is a real problem with these tires, it should be the two tire engineers on this forum; They won't, and don't, believe us.

I'll throw in with you, will be long gone before another worthless government "your tax dollars at waste" agency does anything about junk trailer, "non passenger" tires from China.
This forum simply lets whoever is interested know what some of us trailer toting folks are experiencing when using worthless Goodyear Marathon and other junk Chinese tires.
We do vote with our checkbook every time we refuse to be suckered in to repeat the mistake of buying these POS tires. If everyone would simply stop buying ST radial tires , and when buying a new trailer "whatever brand it is" REFUSE to close the deal until the dealer takes the Marathons off and replaces them with something else , these worthless tires would very soon disappear from the American landscape.

just saying

[crispyboy]

It really doesn't take but 5 minutes of your time to file the tire complaint online. I know because I did this back in August with my own trailer tire issues. This can't be left up to the tire engineers - they only have so much sway on this issue. We, the general public, should do our part to file the complaint. It doesn't seem like your doing much but if the RV population who have had tire issues filed a complaint there is a least a chance it would get some attention.....
The problem about voting with our pocket books is that: tire dealers push people into ST tires by stating that "only these will work on a trailer and I won't mount anything else", most folks don't know any better ( or don't care) and believe this is all that is available, as there are very limited choices in another 15" tire (you have to know what to look for).