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Old 03-24-2020, 09:21 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by dhroberts View Post
Looks like you did your research! Why did you decide on the Michelin Agilis CrossClimate tires. Understand Michelin. Why the CrossClimates? Want to replace my original Michelins as they are 5 years old - this despite they have lots of tread left after 35K miles. Your thoughts? Thanks.
******

Like Switz said... the 'new' Michelin name.

Our last two Airstreams with 16 inch Michelins were stored in our RV Garages. I say that extends the life of your tires as the SUN and Weather are not on your side of keeping your tires fresh and stable.

The experts would counter: If you use them on the road... the Sun and Weather is working eagerly each hour to ROT the inside and exterior side walls. Hmmm... Use your own common sense judgment. I have NEVER had a tire rot out, blow out from rotting from the inside out... but sure had plenty of trouble with 14 inch NEW Marathons coming apart.

The Tire Experts would like you to swap out tires frequently. The INTERIOR of your tires are decomposing. From my experience when replacing Michelins on our Toyota Tundras... I looked and they looked no different that the new tires.

The mileage you can get with a Michelin 16 inch far exceeds a ST Goodyear.

The price? If you have an Airstream... and concerned about the PRICE OF THE NEXT important purchase of a trailer travel... THE TIRES, then brakes... maybe you need a pop up camper with 13 inch low mileage tires to compare notes.

We have had Michelins on Land Cruisers and Tundras, also garaged last until it was the tread was getting thin and far exceeding mileage to the Stock Tires that could come when new. Which I would remove, replace with Michelins and SELL them to someone concerned about price and... tires rotting out.

This is MY experience... and sticking to it. I also use Nitrogen as when the purge the inside of the tire... there is no WATER Vapor to break down the rubber in the interior of the tire. I believe the WATER VAPOR inside your tire is the enemy. Just something for you to consider.

Using those 25 cent compressing units at a Service Station... the worse. Anything is better.

Costco now has Nitrogen outside in Henderson, Nevada, next to Tire Service to pull in at no charge. They prefer you are a customer with nitrogen filled Costco tires... but check it out.
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Old 03-24-2020, 09:28 AM   #42
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Agilis Tire’s Made in USA ?

[QUOTE: “Just purchased 5 new 16” Agilis and new Sendels at America’s Tire in Southern Calif. Tires showing stamped CANADA.“]

Correction to above thought I saw a “CAN” stamp but was incorrect / misinterpreted :/ looking closer can see Made in “USA” ! Yeah !!!
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Old 03-25-2020, 06:28 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Ray Eklund View Post
………. The INTERIOR of your tires are decomposing. …..I looked and they looked no different that the new tires. …..
Allow me to clarify:

It's the stuff below the surface that is of concern - specifically, it's the rubber near the belt edges - and you can't see that without cutting the tire apart.

The innermost surface of the tire is the innerliner - the air retaining part - and that's made of a different type of rubber - butyl. Butyls don't show that same type of cracking that the rubbers used in the rest of the tire do. So you will NEVER see aging there.

In order to get a sense of what is happening INSIDE, we use the outside sidewall as an indicator - BUT - that isn't always reliable as some tire manufacturers use a crack resistant rubber for their outside sidewalls.

Put another way: If there is bad cracking on the outside sidewall of a tire, the part that matters is probably bad, too! But if there is NOT cracking on the outside sidewall, it doesn't mean the tire is good.

Quote:
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………. I also use Nitrogen as when the purge the inside of the tire... there is no WATER Vapor to break down the rubber in the interior of the tire. I believe the WATER VAPOR inside your tire is the enemy. ……..
Sorry, but water isn't the enemy - heat is. Rubber is pretty impervious to water damage.

But heat breaks down the cross links of the long chains of hydrocarbons.

Also, petroleum products will be absorbed within the rubber matrix weakening the structure.

The only reason water vapor is talked about has to do with inflation pressure build up - a source of water adds a bit to the pressure build up - BUT - I think water's role is greatly exaggerated. It's only where precise prediction of the pressure build up that it matters - like racing, where the spring rate of the tires affect handling.

In a street vehicle, water in the tire hardly matters at all. Besides, it eventually disappears through the sidewall.
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Old 03-25-2020, 06:45 AM   #44
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That is indeed interesting and new to me. The why is a Nitrogen fill so applauded? Air is almost 80% nitrogen to begin with.
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Old 03-25-2020, 08:15 AM   #45
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…… Then why is a Nitrogen fill so applauded? Air is almost 80% nitrogen to begin with. …...
Because makers of nitrogen equipment saw a business opportunity and just enough facts to generate a story.
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Old 03-25-2020, 09:03 AM   #46
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Michelin 16 inch tires... on my Airstream!

I have given the composition of the Atmosphere a number of times on the Forum.

Why would anyone promote 15" ST tires over 16" Michelin tires, as better? Maybe because there is more money to be made as they wear faster and less reliable?

Some report that their Airstream pops rivets due to their stiffer tires. ...and to date my 2019 International has not. Maybe this year will be the Michelin LTX rivet popping year. Time will tell. Is it the tire, or the structural integrity that can vary from one trailer to the next. Is a stiffer E Rated 15" ST tire not responsible for popped interior rivets? Or the 16" E Rated Michelin as it is... a poor choice?

Why is my experience... Unique.... using LTX over ST tires? Because there are more ST tires on the road as Travel Trailers of all Brands find them... cheaper and reliable?

Considering most travel trailers are parked most of the time... they do not get as much use. If you travel, a lot, I will prefer a tire that has tread and endurance (pun intended).

Obviously the Experts made an error in judgment designing the Marathon tires... but NOW the Endurance is the answer solving all previous issues.

Those who full time and travel with 15 inch Endurance tires and those with 16 inch LTX Michelin tires will have the results over time. I will do our best to put this 2019 27 footer through a big workout this year!

I used to subscribe to Consumer Reports. Quit several years ago. Same kind of conflicts in comparisons from experience and ratings.
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Old 03-25-2020, 06:40 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by lsbrodsky View Post
That is indeed interesting and new to me. The why is a Nitrogen fill so applauded? Air is almost 80% nitrogen to begin with.
Larry
It's not....It is only applauded between the ears of the gullible.

...My Home compressor has a water separator, every shop I have ever worked in has had a water separator. I shut down & drain after every use. My air tools are NOT rusty.
My VAir has no tank that collects water.

H2o in my tires?.. NP

N...beautiful in the eye of the user.🤓

BTW the Mich has a softer compound hence the greater TD.
I wonder, if in fact it will last longer.🤔 The Michelin LT's on the Burb needed replacement at 48k...happy to replace them with another set, great tire for the TV.👍

Disclaimer...I have always used ST tires, GYM'S and GYE's, never a problem and still use the OEM wheels.

The 'tire shops' use N to get you back in the shop to SELL you more men stuff.

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Old 03-26-2020, 09:09 AM   #48
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Ouch... I must have fallen off the Pumpkin Cart

Post #47. Bob is correct on all accounts.

I buy my tires from Costco. I also return to buy 'other stuff'. Lots of stuff. Also excellent service at any Costco in the USA on tires and any products. I also get an additional 4% back each month on Credit Card purchases and Executive membership on ANYTHING we buy.

Costco ADVERTISES their prices and offers specials on tires, often.

I have NOT had any problems with Goodyear ST Tires since 2014.

I would sell the wheels and tires after purchasing the 2014 and the 2019 and replace them with 16 inch Michelin LTX, Load Range E (NOW same as the new GYE's).

I had NO any problems with Goodyear Marathon 14 inch Load Range C on my 2006 23 foot Safari.... AFTER purchasing Tow Max and Maxxis that needed replacement AFTER wearing them out.

Bob speaks of his Air Compressor. I spoke of those that you pay 25 cents to operate. Avoid them. Yes... I used compressed air to spray paint antique jukeboxes with a dryer. You needed to be careful in humid climates... anyways. With a dryer in line.

It would be great if a Commercial Michelin Supporter of the Airforums appears. Plenty for Goodyear already. Obviously Michelin does not need to go onto any Forums, supporting their brand. Customers are the best supporters.

Nitrogen is FREE at Costco in Henderson, Nevada and there are TWO parking spots with modern digital settings to be used. Self service.

Yes, Michelin has a softer rubber compound. It does great on wet roads.

The Goodyear ST's feel slick to the touch and no doubt on the road. Slide your fingers over the tread and you can feel the hard, slick surface. I did. The Endurance did not feel as slick, so that may have been 'improved'.

The higher priced Airstreams use Michelins. The heavier Airstreams use Michelins. Michelin tires cost me more and worth every dollar.

I suspect that the US Government uses the cheapest tires on any trailers they supply during disasters. Do you expect to find Michelins? You tell me.
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Old 03-26-2020, 09:31 AM   #49
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These wheels and tires are being installed on our 2019 27FB Airstream. The original Airstream factory 15 inch wheels and 15 inch Goodyear Endurance tires are being removed and replaced with the following.

We require thicker tread for our Off the Grid Boondocking ‘Adventures’.

I will be selling, to offset my costs, these new Goodyear ST225/75R/15, LRD Endurance tires and (factory- Sendel S20 6 lug aluminum wheels?) with less than 30 miles to a lucky Trailer Owner. For the majority of Airstream owners, these will be perfect.

My 16 inch Sendel wheel and Michelin Agilis CrossClimate tire choices:

- Sendel ST-S20-66655T 16x6 0 offset Aluminum Modular 6 lug 3200# wheels: 5 wheels, shipping included, Shadow Trailers, $617.45

- Michelin AGILIS CrossClimate All Weather LT225/75R16 LRE BSW MSPN 72022, 5 tires, N0 Costco Mileage Warranty, mounted, balancing, Costco, $1,087.08 before NV Sales Tax

Michelin Agilis CrossClimate tire prices on the Michelin website: $211.00 each. #72022

“The Michelin site has Standard Manufacturer’s Limited Warranty covering defects in workmanship and materials for the life of the original usable tread, or for 6 YEARS from date of purchase, whichever occurs first.”

Possibly any warranty issues would be directed to Michelin, itself. Someone may know.

This is the current 'option' for my previous LTX225/75R/LRE tire size for Michelin I had installed on the 2014 25 foot International. The Agilis CrossClimate replaces the previous 16 inch tires I had installed in 2014 and replace the Defender tires and now are: Michelin AGILIS CrossClimate branded tires.

Costco was having their Michelin ‘Sale’ with $110 discounted from their regular price(s). You may want to shop around for the wheels, as there is a good chance of a better price and the tires. Some wheel dealers had ONE Sendel, another could not get them... but Shadow Trailer had five in stock, and I had them delivered to my door four days after ordering. Of course, they are located in Cypress, California so are within four hours of Boulder City, Nevada.

I am having the tires installed tomorrow at Costco. I am bringing in the FIVE Wheels, metal pressure valves from Shadow Tires tossed into the price.

Once mounted onto the trailer, I will check out these fit in the fender wells. Also the space between each axle/tire for you to compare.

If I discover an error in the above, or someone notices a possible error, please post the difference. This needs to be accurate for many reasons.

I installed a 3” Dexter Lift Kit and gained over 2 1/2 inches more clearance above the axles.
Ray, need your advice. I have a 30' 2016 Classic with two axels. 35k miles. Original 16" tires - Michelin LTX - plenty of tread remaining. Rig is garaged when not on the road.

Two questions:

1) If the tires' outside appearance look good with good tread remaining, would you replace the tires for the sole reason that the tires are 5 years old?

2) Would you go with Michelin LTX Defenders or Michelin AGILIS CrossClimates?

Thank you for your consiseration. Regards, Dennis
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Old 03-26-2020, 10:30 AM   #50
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Dennis. The 2014 was sold last year with five years on them. Excellent tread and the current owner was off to the Dakotas, last year.

Personally... I would judge the tires by the Exterior. Cracks... you bet I would replace them. UP until then. I would also look for cracks between the tread for the 'second opinion'. If the exteriors are already greyish on the exterior... like my 14 inch Marathons were from New Zealand... toast... from my experience.

I have the Agilis which appear to have the same tread what my previous Michelins used. The outside embossed name was the only change I noticed.

The experts may use the time line for ST tires for when to replace them. At least they are so light, even my mother could replace the spare onto the trailer. The Michelins... whoa... you know something has changed in what I purchased. Fortunately... I have never needed the spare Michelin.

This debate will go on and on. I personally will run the tires until I visibly see any issue or I wear them down to the thickness of a NEW Goodyear.... kind of person.
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Old 03-26-2020, 02:25 PM   #51
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Dennis. The 2014 was sold last year with five years on them. Excellent tread and the current owner was off to the Dakotas, last year.

Personally... I would judge the tires by the Exterior. Cracks... you bet I would replace them. UP until then. I would also look for cracks between the tread for the 'second opinion'. If the exteriors are already greyish on the exterior... like my 14 inch Marathons were from New Zealand... toast... from my experience.

I have the Agilis which appear to have the same tread what my previous Michelins used. The outside embossed name was the only change I noticed.

The experts may use the time line for ST tires for when to replace them. At least they are so light, even my mother could replace the spare onto the trailer. The Michelins... whoa... you know something has changed in what I purchased. Fortunately... I have never needed the spare Michelin.

This debate will go on and on. I personally will run the tires until I visibly see any issue or I wear them down to the thickness of a NEW Goodyear.... kind of person.
-----------------
Ray...

And the last time you weighed a GYE was?
A much more substantial sidewall than ANY Michelin I have had on any of our TV's.

Oh, and BTW I'm not debating.
Kind of person?
....That uses ST tires on our AS and always will.
TETO

Bob
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Old 03-26-2020, 04:20 PM   #52
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The Goodyear Endurance Trailer Tire site has 41 Customer Reviews. One I thought was fantastic:

Confidence Quality and Value

this tire used for trailering is much better than the ones I had been buying from trailer stores. it lasts at least twice as long if not longer and has given me 1-2 more mpg over the stock tires. I tow 50,000+ miles each year and have never felt more comfortable knowing this tire delivers on endurance, roll resistance and value. I run these on all my trailers. One tandom trailer I run these tires on has at least 70,000 miles on them!

The Michelin Agilis CrossClimate site has 2 Reviews. Both were tires used on a F250 and a F350. (Although had a 6 year limited warranty.)

Could not find any weights. Is that WITH Nitrogen or weight purged of all Nitrogen?
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Old 03-26-2020, 05:26 PM   #53
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Goodyear Endurance 225 75 R 15 weighs 34 lbs.
The LT Michellin Defender in the 225 75 R16 size is about 38 lbs.
The LT Agilis in the 225 75 R16 size is 37 lbs.

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Old 03-26-2020, 07:02 PM   #54
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Thanks Jack.

Marathon 225/75R15 weighs 31 pounds

That should cover weights.

I have fully explained WHY RAY uses 16 inch Michelins. It is a mystery to me why people want to argue about which is a better tire for ME. I present MY REASONS over and over. Free Goodyears still would not get me to change over.

Off the Grid and into the Forest Service, County and BLM Roads... I can handle all of it and... even Bureau of Indian Affairsm (BIA) roads. Some are not passable... with a trailer and barely with a 4x4.

If you cruise the Airstream Rallies... and that is the extent of your 'pounding the roads', great. If you cruise the back country to explore... the new Endurance tires may work just great.

I like Coca Cola. I worked for Pepsi... too sweet for my taste. So... ? Royal Cola also tasted good for my taste buds. TAB... do not ask. Part of the business was to know how the competition tasted.

Much like what SOB owners say about owning an Airstream trailer. Although Oliver has a nice Trailer and if we want to get a top Boondocking OTG Trailer... Oliver is on the short list with Airstream.

I did see a 27/28 foot Airstream parked in the Costco parking lot (3-23-20) with Texas Plates and a moped mounted on the front of the tow vehicle. It had 16 inch tires but I did not recognize the brand... and did not have pen and paper.

I can argue my reasons... but not anyone else's opinion of MY REASONS. This was trial and error discoveries.

Much like Fly Rods, line weight and flies... if you cannot catch a trout... maybe the lake freezes to the bottom and there are none.... kind of position. I have seen these fishermen Southwest of Laramie, Wyoming in the Snowy Range. Fishing DEAD lakes on top.

Nancy does not enjoy bantering or even posted once on the Forum. I create enough entertainment for her to follow. Good or sarcastic dribble.

Some report that Costco will not INSURE Michelins on Airstreams that do not have them listed, like the longer, higher price Airstreams with 16 inch Michelins.

Alfred E. Neuman: What me Worry? If they do not have a catastrophic failure... why should I care? Mad Magazine fan, I was. How else did I get so... confused?

Tires... not changing my position. The Trailer... maybe. Tow Vehicle... maybe.

Yes... we pick up after our dogs when in civilization. When in the forest... I am smiling and save these multi purpose bags, as lunch bags. They are reusable. I have never had my lunch taken from me, when someone sees the directions on MY lunch bags.
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Old 03-26-2020, 11:07 PM   #55
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Maybe the sister publication to MAD was "Cracked" and that altered your outlook?
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Old 03-27-2020, 09:27 AM   #56
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Maybe the sister publication to MAD was "Cracked" and that altered your outlook?
****
We use to 'trade' comic books, the 10 cent then 12 cent then 15 cent... after reading them. I learned a lot from reading Mad Magazine at 11 to 12 years old. Same with paper back books.

I also like reading through advertising when something seems interesting. One word can change the meaning, yet many miss it. "Good for MOST..." is popular.

Often I suspect that employees of manufacturers post positive statements, like the 70,000 miles on trailer tires posting. I could only read so much and had to quit, as even I can not make up such glowing posts.

A photo of a destroyed Michelin still mounted onto an Airstream... that is more convincing. I have my 14 inch Marathon photo... being removed from my 2006 23 foot Safari. Not much left.
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Old 03-30-2020, 12:52 PM   #57
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Current Airstream 16” tire installs

Greetings
I just got off the phone with M at Airstream and he told me that the current tires being installed at JC for the 16” installs is the Michelin Agilis CrossClimate load range E. Just an FYI.
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Old 03-30-2020, 04:21 PM   #58
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I just got home from discount tire with new tires on the stream of the Agilis type! Just over $900.
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Old 05-18-2020, 10:28 AM   #59
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Tire Check after 3552 mile Boondocking Adventure

Traveled highways, dirt and rock infested back roads in four States and 3,552 miles on this latest Rocky Mountain Adventure. Tires at 65/66psi cold temperature. Same tires as Post #1.

Full fresh water tank. Full stock of food for weeks. Shovels to tools to repair most anything that could happen, but did... not.

Not one blow out.
Not a flat tire.
Not one single complaint about my Michelin tire choice.

Those who do have an unexplained blowout on the HIGHWAY... it makes me wonder if they have a round in their pistol's chamber by accident, or by choice... kind of thing.

Someone blamed the Michelin tire for causing damage to their single axle trailer. Was there a round in the chamber or not, kind of situation.

I have NEVER had a tire failure with Michelin tires. I know how to avoid road hazards on paved roads and mountain roads full of pot holes and pointy rocks.

When I follow ANY tire failure thread... the kooks come out of the woodwork. I had tire failures with Goodyear 14 inch tires and 14 inch High Run on our 23 foot Airstream. None with a 15 inch Goodyear... as I sold them on the later trailers with wheels to Michelin 16 inch.

I have NEVER had a Michelin Tire fail. I check my tires at home, while traveling and when parked. There are idiots that do not check that they have a full fuel tank in an personal aircraft and those who would not recognize a low tire of any brand when filling their fuel tank when towing.

Read between the lines and ask yourself if YOU do not know this person and how they drive and maintain their tow vehicle and trailer.

I spent two years as an OSHA inspector in Wyoming. People lie. People screw up and cover up. Common Sense is not common. It is 'not MY Fault... it's Ass Fault' on the road's fault... kind of mentality.

Goodyear Endurance may be an excellent tire. Michelin LTX 16 inch as well. I need no excuse for my decision to pay more and keep my F350 Michelins and 2019 27 foot International fitted with 16 inch Michelins.
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Old 05-18-2020, 10:34 AM   #60
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Tire Check after 3552 mile Boondocking Adventure

Traveled highways, dirt and rock infested back roads in four States and 3,552 miles on this latest Rocky Mountain Adventure. Tires at 65/66psi cold temperature. Same tires as Post #1.

Full fresh water tank. Full stock of food for weeks. Shovels to tools to repair most anything that could happen, but did... not.

Not one blow out.
Not a flat tire.
Not one single complaint about my Michelin tire choice.

Those who do have an unexplained blowout on the HIGHWAY... it makes me wonder if they have a round in their pistol's chamber by accident, or by choice... kind of thing.

Someone blamed the Michelin tire for causing damage to their single axle trailer. Was there a round in the chamber or not, kind of situation. Has this individual had previous... tire failures, engine seize up from lack of oil, run out of fuel in nowhere... the list can be long.

I have NEVER had a tire failure with Michelin tires. I know how to avoid road hazards on paved roads and mountain roads full of pot holes and pointy rocks.

When I follow ANY tire failure thread... the kooks come out of the woodwork. I had tire failures with Goodyear 14 inch tires and 14 inch High Run on our 23 foot Airstream. None with a 15 inch Goodyear... as I sold them on the later trailers with wheels to Michelin 16 inch.

I have NEVER had a Michelin Tire fail. I check my tires at home, while traveling and when parked. There are idiots that do not check that they have a full fuel tank in an personal aircraft and those who would not recognize a low tire of any brand when filling their fuel tank when towing.

Read between the lines and ask yourself if YOU do not know this person and how they drive and maintain their tow vehicle and trailer. It is NEVER the operator's fault...is it?

I spent two years as an OSHA inspector in Wyoming. People lie. People screw up and cover up. Common Sense is not common. It is 'not MY Fault... it's Ass Fault' on the road's fault... kind of mentality.

Goodyear Endurance may be an excellent tire. Michelin LTX 16 inch as well. I need no excuse for my decision to pay more and keep my F350 Michelins and 2019 27 foot International fitted with 16 inch Michelins.

Opinions are not facts. These are my opinions but my experience support the fact that Michelins work for... ME.
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