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Old 12-15-2022, 09:48 AM   #1
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Michelin Agilis confusion??

I recently installed Agilis LT225/75R16 (NOT the "c" designated commercial tire) on the AS. The sidewall for that size, in LT denotes 2680# @ 90 psi. That size differs in max pressure from all the other sizes (LT) and I found reference to a construction difference in that size.

All the charts for the Agilis only cover 2680# @ 80psi. So what do I do when trying to determine the proper pressure at lower loads as installed on my AS? Do I just add 10# psi to the current charts which designate 80 psi max?

Apply a percentage difference to the charts??

Has anyone dealt with this?
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Old 12-15-2022, 10:18 AM   #2
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Rich, you might want to reach out to Michelin to see if they have a chart that breaks it down like the Goodyear Endurance does.

I found this RV Tire guide on the Michelin Agilis site but it only has the maximum number (confirms your sidewall’s 90 PSI).

I attended a Michelin presentation at the Fryeburg International Rally and the guys were very knowledgeable. I didn’t grab a business card but perhaps someone else did. Their presentations may still be available online; will check.

Good luck with your search!
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Old 12-15-2022, 10:28 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by jeffmc306 View Post
Rich, you might want to reach out to Michelin to see if they have a chart that breaks it down like the Goodyear Endurance does.

I found this RV Tire guide on the Michelin Agilis site but it only has the maximum number (confirms your sidewall’s 90 PSI).

I attended a Michelin presentation at the Fryeburg International Rally and the guys were very knowledgeable. I didn’t grab a business card but perhaps someone else did. Their presentations may still be available online; will check.

Good luck with your search!
Thanks. I have hunted high and low for a load chart which covers a 90psi max pressure tire. Can't find one. According to Capriracer (or tireman, I can't remember) the load charts have industry coverage.
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Old 12-15-2022, 10:48 AM   #4
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Makes sense Rich that the load charts would be industry standard. I checked the Fryeburg presentations but nothing available from Michelin. I guess you can experiment with different tire pressures and see what works best.
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Old 12-15-2022, 10:54 AM   #5
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Makes sense Rich that the load charts would be industry standard. I checked the Fryeburg presentations but nothing available from Michelin. I guess you can experiment with different tire pressures and see what works best.
I have never weighed my "corners" individually, but my total axle loads put me at between 1975# and 2060# per tire, depending on water load. I would, of course, add some fluffinuter for unequal loading of corners/front/rear axle etc.

I just need a load chart to decide what that fluffinuter pressure should be.
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Old 12-15-2022, 01:05 PM   #6
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Agilis Tire Pressures

Quote:
Originally Posted by dznf0g View Post
I recently installed Agilis LT225/75R16 (NOT the "c" designated commercial tire) on the AS. The sidewall for that size, in LT denotes 2680# @ 90 psi. That size differs in max pressure from all the other sizes (LT) and I found reference to a construction difference in that size.

All the charts for the Agilis only cover 2680# @ 80psi. So what do I do when trying to determine the proper pressure at lower loads as installed on my AS? Do I just add 10# psi to the current charts which designate 80 psi max?

Apply a percentage difference to the charts??

Has anyone dealt with this?

Rich-

I think you have some incorrect info on the "C" designation. Per Michelin:

- - - -

What is the difference between the MICHELIN® AGILIS® C-Metric sizes vs. the LT sizes?

A: The C-metric convention can be thought of as the European equivalent of the LT-metric. Just as LT-metric describes a tire with a higher load rating and higher pressure than the equivalently sized P-metric tire, C-metric describes a tire with a higher load rating and higher pressure than the equivalently sized European Metric tire.

Why is the MICHELIN® AGILIS® CROSSCLIMATE® tire offered in two different tread designs?

A: The MICHELIN® AGILIS® CROSSCLIMATE® C-Metric tire was designed in Europe specifically for the European style vans that are also offered in the North American market. The C-Metric is a directional tread pattern. The LT sizes are non-directional and were designed by the North American Research and Development team to best suit 3⁄4- and 1-ton pickups and vans. Both treads offer comparable performance.

https://dcadprod.azureedge.net/b2b-e...tire-flyer.pdf

- - - -

Per Michelin, all of the Agilis tires are "commerical" (or "light" commerical) even though they are run in all kinds of "non-commerical" uses. The "C" tires have a higher load rating and are also directional as to tread as well.

Tire Rack shows the 16" size on the C at 225/75R16C at 3195 lbs at 83 psi and the non-C (your tire) at 2680 @ 90 psi.

That is why I bought the C version rather than the non-C.

Not sure where "rvsafety.com" got the numbers for both sets of Agilis tires at 225/75R16, but here you go from 35 PSI up to 90 PSI for your tire (and the C-Metric as well):

https://rvsafety.com/images/pdf/mich...ionrvtruck.pdf

No matter what, you should check with Michelin directly and please post whatever they give you!

Tire rack SS and rvsafety.com SS below (rvsafety.com SS do not have the PSI listed across the top, but the link above does):
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Old 12-15-2022, 01:29 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetstreamAS View Post
Rich-

I think you have some incorrect info on the "C" designation. Per Michelin:

- - - -

What is the difference between the MICHELIN AGILIS C-Metric sizes vs. the LT sizes?

A: The C-metric convention can be thought of as the European equivalent of the LT-metric. Just as LT-metric describes a tire with a higher load rating and higher pressure than the equivalently sized P-metric tire, C-metric describes a tire with a higher load rating and higher pressure than the equivalently sized European Metric tire.

Why is the MICHELIN AGILIS CROSSCLIMATE tire offered in two different tread designs?

A: The MICHELIN AGILIS CROSSCLIMATE C-Metric tire was designed in Europe specifically for the European style vans that are also offered in the North American market. The C-Metric is a directional tread pattern. The LT sizes are non-directional and were designed by the North American Research and Development team to best suit 3⁄4- and 1-ton pickups and vans. Both treads offer comparable performance.

https://dcadprod.azureedge.net/b2b-e...tire-flyer.pdf

- - - -

Per Michelin, all of the Agilis tires are "commerical" (or "light" commerical) even though they are run in all kinds of "non-commerical" uses. The "C" tires have a higher load rating and are also directional as to tread as well.

Tire Rack shows the 16" size on the C at 225/75R16C at 3195 lbs at 83 psi and the non-C (your tire) at 2680 @ 90 psi.

That is why I bought the C version rather than the non-C.

Not sure where "rvsafety.com" got the numbers for both sets of Agilis tires at 225/75R16, but here you go from 35 PSI up to 90 PSI for your tire (and the C-Metric as well):

https://rvsafety.com/images/pdf/mich...ionrvtruck.pdf

No matter what, you should check with Michelin directly and please post whatever they give you!

Tire rack SS and rvsafety.com SS below (rvsafety.com SS do not have the PSI listed across the top, but the link above does):
Thanks, but you have stated nothing that I didn't know. What I don't know, is stated in post number one. What are the psi recommendations for loads below 2680#? No chart I have found addresses the unique p metric LT225/75R16 load pressures below 90psi.
That last chart is interesting, as it shows 2680 at 80 psi and 2680 at 90 psi. How can that be????

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Old 12-15-2022, 01:57 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dznf0g View Post
Thanks, but you have stated nothing that I didn't know. What I don't know, is stated in post number one. What are the psi recommendations for loads below 2680#? No chart I have found addresses the unique p metric LT225/75R16 load pressures below 90psi.
That last chart is interesting, as it shows 2680 at 80 psi and 2680 at 90 psi. How can that be????
I told you exactly what you didn't know and I answered your question, you just didn't read the response carefully or click on the posted link:

Quote:
Originally Posted by JetstreamAS View Post
Not sure where "rvsafety.com" got the numbers for both sets of Agilis tires at 225/75R16, but here you go from 35 PSI up to 90 PSI for your tire (and the C-Metric as well):

https://rvsafety.com/images/pdf/mich...ionrvtruck.pdf

Tire Rack SS and rvsafety.com SS below (rvsafety.com SS do not have the PSI listed across the top, but the link above does):
Look at the link I posted, all the PSI and load ratings are there. I will make it easier for you (pro tip: your tire is at the bottom of the SS below):
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Old 12-15-2022, 02:03 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by JetstreamAS View Post
I told you exactly what you didn't know and I answered your question, you just didn't read the response carefully or click on the posted link:







Look at the link I posted, all the PSI and load ratings are there. I will make it easier for you (pro tip: your tire is at the bottom of the SS below):
Yes, but it shows 2680@ 80 psi in the last data column and then just to the right says 2680@ at 90 psi. How can that be? Same max load at 2 different pressures. I have never seen that in any tire chart before. What does it mean?
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Old 12-15-2022, 02:27 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dznf0g View Post
Yes, but it shows 2680@ 80 psi in the last data column and then just to the right says 2680@ at 90 psi. How can that be? Same max load at 2 different pressures. I have never seen that in any tire chart before. What does it mean?
I assume it means you can run that tire at 80 or 90 psi and still be @ 2680, or it is a mistake. Either way - who cares? Why I say that is because I would never run it (or any) tire at the max pressure - whether in this case 80 or 90.

Do you run those tires at 80 or 90 psi?
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Old 12-15-2022, 02:32 PM   #11
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I assume it means you can run that tire at 80 or 90 psi and still be @ 2680, or it is a mistake. Either way - who cares? Why I say that is because I would never run it (or any) tire at the max pressure - whether in this case 80 or 90.

Do you run those tires at 80 or 90 psi?
I haven't run them yet. Brand new. That is why I am trying to determine my appropriate pressure at my known loads. So I don't know whether to trust the chart load/pressure or "graduate" backward from the 90psi number.
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Old 12-15-2022, 02:44 PM   #12
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Three choices to address the issue:

1. use the chart as is regardless of the 80/90 issue.

2. call Michelin and see what they say

3. send the LT set up back and get the C- metric tires
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Old 12-15-2022, 02:51 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by JetstreamAS View Post
Three choices to address the issue:

1. use the chart as is regardless of the 80/90 issue.

2. call Michelin and see what they say

3. send the LT set up back and get the C- metric tires
#1 makes me uncomfortable

#2 probably is necessary. I figured someone here would have unraveled this, as it's not a terribly new offering in the marketplace.

#3. I really think that the C metric is an overkill application for any AS, but that's just my opinion.
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Old 12-15-2022, 03:09 PM   #14
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You would be fine on all 3 IMO.

As for #3, the C Metric is a not “overkill” as you can run at a far lower PSI than the LT. For example, the C will run almost 1000 pounds more @ 55 PSI than the LT Agilis. I’m not a big fan of open cabinets and crap flying around in my Airstream at higher pressures.

That difference is nothing but a good thing and positive overkill if anything.
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Old 12-15-2022, 03:22 PM   #15
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You would be fine on all 3 IMO.

As for #3, the C Metric is a not “overkill” as you can run at a far lower PSI than the LT. For example, the C will run almost 1000 pounds more @ 55 PSI than the LT Agilis. I’m not a big fan of open cabinets and crap flying around in my Airstream at higher pressures.

That difference is nothing but a good thing and positive overkill if anything.
Yeah, overkill may not be the right word, but that's not the subject here.

I have run michelin LTs since 2010 or 2011...ltx ms/2, followed by defenders, and now agilis. No problems. I ran the prior two at 80psi. I am just very unclear on whether to start with 80psi or 90psi when de-rating by 10% (per the 2 tire engineers here) and applying my present known axle weights.
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Old 12-15-2022, 06:31 PM   #16
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I assume it means you can run that tire at 80 or 90 psi and still be @ 2680, or it is a mistake. Either way - who cares? Why I say that is because I would never run it (or any) tire at the max pressure - whether in this case 80 or 90.

Do you run those tires at 80 or 90 psi?
I've seen other tires with an extra column (or two or three) for running at pressures higher than the main chart.

Usually there are accompanying footnotes explaining why or under what circumstances the higher pressures are allowed. In one specific case I know about were the tires I ran on my coach. The higher pressures were only applicable when used on wider wheels which carried a higher pressure rating.

Before running these tires at 90psi I'd for sure want to know that the wheels are rated for the higher pressure.
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Old 12-15-2022, 06:54 PM   #17
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I've seen other tires with an extra column (or two or three) for running at pressures higher than the main chart.



Usually there are accompanying footnotes explaining why or under what circumstances the higher pressures are allowed. In one specific case I know about were the tires I ran on my coach. The higher pressures were only applicable when used on wider wheels which carried a higher pressure rating.



Before running these tires at 90psi I'd for sure want to know that the wheels are rated for the higher pressure.
As I recall, my wheels are 100psi wheels. Need to crawl under and see if they are stamped on the inner flange. I don't think I need 90psi, but without that "footnote" explanation I am really confused as to what's going on here. I left a pm for tireman9. Also, another question just popped in my head.

When you add 10% margin for using non-st tires on a trailer, do you add 10% to your actual weight and use the corresponding chart psi......or do you de-rate the chart weight number by 10%? They are different numbers.

Edit: sendel t02 16x6 wheels are 110psi max wheels.
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Old 12-15-2022, 07:10 PM   #18
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There is a similar situation with some "XL" type passenger tires. One of the tire experts that visits here occasionally has mentioned it. One example is the Michelin 235/75R15 that some AirForumers used to replace their failed Marathons. They achieve their 2271 pound max load at 42 PSI. The max sidewall pressure is 50 PSI, which is also rated for 2271 pounds. And I don't think this is a Michelin-unique thing; I believe this is industry-standard.

The way I see it is, inflating beyond the basic max-load pressure is adding insurance against heat buildup and interply shear when backing (and giving a harsher ride) but the ability to use that pressure does not change how we should interpret the lower-pressure parts of the load&inflation tables.
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Old 12-15-2022, 07:37 PM   #19
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There is a similar situation with some "XL" type passenger tires. One of the tire experts that visits here occasionally has mentioned it. One example is the Michelin 235/75R15 that some AirForumers used to replace their failed Marathons. They achieve their 2271 pound max load at 42 PSI. The max sidewall pressure is 50 PSI, which is also rated for 2271 pounds. And I don't think this is a Michelin-unique thing; I believe this is industry-standard.

The way I see it is, inflating beyond the basic max-load pressure is adding insurance against heat buildup and interply shear when backing (and giving a harsher ride) but the ability to use that pressure does not change how we should interpret the lower-pressure parts of the load&inflation tables.
That sort of makes sense, but.....if the intent is to reduce heat and shear at 2680# and inflate to 90 psi to accomplish this, then it follows that the 10psi increase would be assigned to any charted load when used on a trailer. In other words, if my load (by the chart) results in 65psi, then I would really need 75 psi to account for heat and shear at that load.
And if that is the case, is all this unexplained nonsense in lue of the 10% margin previously introduced by the 2 tire experts here years ago?
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Old 12-15-2022, 07:41 PM   #20
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...
When you add 10% margin for using non-st tires on a trailer, do you add 10% to your actual weight and use the corresponding chart psi......or do you de-rate the chart weight number by 10%? They are different numbers.
...
I took the phrase "add 10% margin" to mean ADD 10% to my weights" not SUBTRACT 10% from the table weight.

But this is probably arranging deck chairs - pick the one that yields the most pressure. The difference probably won't change the ride much.
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