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Old 02-15-2017, 09:52 AM   #41
Tom T
 
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Boxite -

I agree with your last comment about ST tires not being problematic as a type, as they are specifically designed for trailers. But that is the ST vs. LT crowds' ongoing debate on here.

FYI - I'm an ST person - before you rail off on me again, but I have Maxxis LTs on my `88 VW Westfalia van which have performed well in their intended use (LT for light trucks/vans, ST for trailers IMHO).

No - I am NOT a salesman & NOT a rant, if you read my initial post giving positive information, but was only pointing out that there is more to any tire failure story, & the fact that you seemed to be discounting any positive feedback as anecdotal. Please read my post again, & you'll see that it covers a number of factors which come into tire failures, & proper use of them. I also pointed out that what you call anecdotal experiences, is in fact what Consumer Reports, J.D. Power, & other surveys use for their reliability ratings.

It was not a sales pitch, but it does respond to the OP's question about feedback on Maxxis tires - not any other brand.

By your latest comment - that only a failure is factual. How can only failures be factual, but non-failures in long term service be non-factual anecdotal!?

Yes, your buddy may have had a bad tire - as I said in my last post.

However, you yourself left some doubt as to possible under-inflation or other installation issues possibly being the problem.

My post also raised several other possibilities related to speed, loading, other stem/valve component & rim issues, etc. which could have led to the failure - which other members also raised.

What is a fact about your example, is that you have insufficient data to state whether or not the other factors came into play by your own statement in the initial post, nor can you state categorically that the guy didn't speed, swerve to avoid an obstacle & breaking the bead seal, or any other factor which could have led to the failure.

You just do not know if it was "UNabusive" nor some other factor. You just don't have all the facts.

So what I & other members are suggesting, is that you call your buddy & get more info to confirm all the facts in the matter - instead of railing against those of us pointing out that there may be more at play in this failure.

Once again since you seem to pass over this part of my posts - it could be the result af a defective tire. Any tire of any type from any manufacturer could have some number of defective ones.

Cheers!
Tom
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Old 02-15-2017, 11:15 AM   #42
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Well, the internet fails to convey voice inflection and sometimes the meaning of posts are misunderstood as the result, Tom... I took your post to be an attack/rant and I sincerely apologize if I misunderstood.

However I wish to point out to you that the tire failure described to me first-hand by a known person was in a discussion that left all questions about overspeed, overloading, or any other abuse of the new tire out of the picture...and that is the reason I did not list them, as they did not exist... except in your imagination when you posted what appeared to be your incredulous-challenge to the report.

It was possible, as I stated, that the tire may have had a slow leak because there was no way of knowing for certain. My friend did not notice any unusual trailering such as dragging to one side or excessive sway or other handing issue... the only indication there was a problem was when the trailer lurched, leaned to one-side, and rubber was shredding and being thrown around.

The only point I was making was that new tires, of ANY brand, can fail even when there does not appear to be abuse or misuse, and that the use of LT or ST tires has nothing to do with that possibility.
With that said, it appears to me that the many many posts here at the forums which categorically condemn this or that type of tire... or this or that brand of tire.... is purely anecdotal and unreliable as guideline.
I'm done with this thread.
Kind regards,
George
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Old 02-15-2017, 01:26 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxite View Post
So, what are you saying...?? that, as a fact,.... ALL ST tires are prone to failure even when in new condition and used for their design-purpose?

Yes, by virtue of how they are constructed. In simple terms the thread section is basically attached to the tire, not integral part of the base tire.
And why is it that the immediate response when someone posts an ST tire failure is: must have been under inflated, you were going to fast, etc.etc. That's a lot of anxiety to live with as far as I am concerned especially when there are readily available great alternatives.
Does anyone have that much anxiety over the TV tires, I think not.
I picked up a concrete nail in one of my Michelin XT tires. Trying to get of I 75 south of Atlanta I panicked. The Tire monitoring was going of like crazy. After 5 minutes or so I realized that the tire was holding at 35 PSI. I rode the right lane at 55 mph and was able to get to a tire store in about 12 miles. The nail was removed, tire plugged and still on the trailer. No damage, no thread separation.
A couple of years ago I had a massive blow out and thread separation of a GYM tire that a babied constantly. I would lose a couple lbs I couldn't relax until I corrected it. ST tires no thank you !
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Old 02-15-2017, 03:15 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxite View Post
So, what are you saying...?? that, as a fact,.... ALL ST tires are prone to failure even when in new condition and used for their design-purpose?
Lets just say ST tires on a car is suicide.
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Old 02-16-2017, 09:23 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by r carl View Post
Lets just say ST tires on a car is suicide.
If their use is prohibited on your pickup truck for safety reasons why in the world would you want them on your expensive Airstream ? That's a no brainer decision IMHO.
Had I known what I know now at the time I bought our new AS it wouldn't have left the dealers yard with ST tires on it.
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Old 02-16-2017, 10:21 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franklyfrank View Post
Yes, by virtue of how they are constructed. In simple terms the thread section is basically attached to the tire, not integral part of the base tire.
And why is it that the immediate response when someone posts an ST tire failure is: must have been under inflated, you were going to fast, etc.etc. That's a lot of anxiety to live with as far as I am concerned especially when there are readily available great alternatives.
Does anyone have that much anxiety over the TV tires, I think not.
I picked up a concrete nail in one of my Michelin XT tires. Trying to get of I 75 south of Atlanta I panicked. The Tire monitoring was going of like crazy. After 5 minutes or so I realized that the tire was holding at 35 PSI. I rode the right lane at 55 mph and was able to get to a tire store in about 12 miles. The nail was removed, tire plugged and still on the trailer. No damage, no thread separation.
A couple of years ago I had a massive blow out and thread separation of a GYM tire that a babied constantly. I would lose a couple lbs I couldn't relax until I corrected it. ST tires no thank you !
Frank -

Please respect the OP's question.

The OP asked specifically about Maxxis M8008 Tires - NOT a debate about whether ST tires are problematic, & NOT about any other brand/type/model tire.

Furthermore, what you say above about ST tires' construction is incorrect & misleading. ST's are designed specifically for trailers with lower rolling resistance & less traction - because they're best to roll along & are not on drive wheels, & with less sidewall flex for the same reason, since they are not needing to flex for traction while turning - as are P & LT tires on a driven & steered car/truck/suv TV. That's it, period, & not any urban myths about separate treads from tire body stuff.

And speaking of tread separation regarding your vaunted Michelin car/truck/suv tires - I had 4 new Michelin LT195/65R14C tires specifically designed for my 1988 VW Vanagon Westfalia camper van with less than 5K miles on them, & 2 had tread separations & the other 2 were bubbled & working on future separation.

So the truth is that ANY service-type tire made by ANY manufacturer can have failures.

Can we now stick to the OP's subject of:

"Maxxis ST225 75 R15 Tires
After a "general search" of the internet for possible links to Maxxis tires being used on Airstream Trailers and finding none here's my question.

I have a 22FB Sport Bambi 2016 model and I am getting un-comfortable with the GY Marathon tires. I don't have the time, energy nor money to deal with the aftermath of a GY tire failure.

After talking with local resources and personal research I am leaning hard towards the Maxxis tires. The GY is a 5 ply whereas the Maxxis is 10 ply. All the tire specs are better with the Maxxis tire....load rating, etc.

I don't feel the need to change out my rims to a larger size, so that is out of the question.

Any one using this tire as a replacement for the Gy's?


Comments welcome.

Happy New Year Everyone!

Pat"


TIA!
Tom
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Old 02-17-2017, 07:04 AM   #47
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I replaced the GYMs with 4 Maxxis 15" E rating (10 ply) that are NOT speed limited to 65. Their speed limit is just under 99 mph if I remember correctly. I spoke with a factory rep who was kind enough to spend half an hour discussing tires with me on the phone.

The four Maxxis tires went 2.5 yrs and two of them developed tread separation, but my TPMSl gave me notice of air loss. I replaced all four Maxxis with 4 more new ones, and kept the old good tires for spares. I like the Maxxis and am now coming up at 3 yrs. If these Maxxis give me two more years of good service I'll stay with Maxxis. If they develop problems, I'll sell my 15" Aluminum rims and get 16" Sendel ones and Michelin LT E rated tires. Do use a tire pressure monitoring system before you have an incident that costs 3-5K$. I do like Maxxis, and I really like Michelin too, but of dozens of Michelins I have had I did have one go out of round with good tread still on it. Some tires are better, some are worse, but all tires can have a structural issue now and then. Its up to the owner to make sure that the tire is well balanced, properly inflated, not damaged on curbs, and not too old. See you down the road.
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Old 02-17-2017, 08:13 AM   #48
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I'm sorry, but I just can not let this pass:

Quote:
Originally Posted by franklyfrank View Post
Yes, by virtue of how they are constructed. In simple terms the thread section is basically attached to the tire, not integral part of the base tire. ......
I'm sorry, but that just isn't the way it works. Further, ST tires are basically constructed the same way ANY tire is constructed - whether it is a passenger car tire, an LT tire, an over the road truck tire or aircraft tires - what have you.

Where the apparent problem with ST tires is 2 fold: They are not up to date with regards to technology. LT tires were brought up to date following the Ford/Firestone situation some 16 years ago - but before that, they behaved very much like ST tires.

The second problem is that trailer manufacturers haven't always done a good job of providing adequately sized tires for their trailer. The fact that the trailers are restricted to 65 mph due to the tires, but this fact is not obvious to a neophyte should be a clue.

A third fact is that tires can be damaged by road debris. A small nail can puncture a tire and the end result may be unrecognizable as a road hazard. In other words, we are never going to completely eliminate tire failures - at least as long as they require gas pressure to operate.

Personally, I think this is all changing. There just doesn't seem to be as many complaints about tire failures as there used to be.
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Old 02-17-2017, 08:50 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapriRacer View Post
Where the apparent problem with ST tires is 2 fold: They are not up to date with regards to technology...

Personally, I think this is all changing. There just doesn't seem to be as many complaints about tire failures as there used to be.
So, are you saying some of them are up-to-date?

Like maybe current generation Maxxis and the new Goodyear Endurance ST tires?
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Old 02-17-2017, 10:21 AM   #50
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So, are you saying some of them are up-to-date?

Like maybe current generation Maxxis and the new Goodyear Endurance ST tires?
I don't know if any ST t ires are up to date - or not. In order to answer that question, I would at least need to analyze the construction.

A better way would be to do a comparison test - old vs new - and that is way beyond my finances.

Do I think the Goodyear Endurance is up to date? I know their LT tires are, so perhaps they are.
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Old 02-17-2017, 11:13 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franklyfrank View Post
"Quote:
Originally Posted by r carl View Post
Lets just say ST tires on a car is suicide."

If their use is prohibited on your pickup truck for safety reasons why in the world would you want them on your expensive Airstream ?
Because Frank ....

ST tires are specifically designed for Trailer use only.

Trailer Tires:
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiret...jsp?techid=309

Trailer Tires vs. Passenger Vehicle Tires:
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiret...jsp?techid=219

LT tires are designed for light trucks/vans/suvs.

Light Truck Tire Fitment:
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiret....jsp?techid=54

Load Rating & Plies:
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiret....jsp?techid=55

Tire Rack has a great Tech Info section linked below (where the above links are from), which you, the OP, & others on here will find informative.

All Subjects:
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiret...ch.jsp?tab=All

Tire Specs Explained:
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiret...jsp?techid=194

PS - Maxxis also makes a very good LT tire if one is still inclined to go to LT's on their trailer (or truck/suv/van - I have them on my `88 VW Westy van), & there is probably no harm in using an LT on trailers, except that their higher friction/traction ratings & design will build up more heat in the tires, than with the ST tires, as discussed in the first link above about trailer tires. They may also lower your mpg while towing, if you read the link below.

Rolling Resistance - Fuel Economy:
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiret...jsp?techid=175

Cheers!
Tom
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Old 02-17-2017, 12:23 PM   #52
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Here's a clip from DiscountTireDirects's internet site regarding ST tires. I think this one has given me the best insite as to why ST tires have proven to be failure prone in my usage.

Time
Time and the elements weaken a trailer tire.
In approximately 3 years, roughly one third of the tire's strength is gone.
Three to five years is the projected life of a normal trailer tire.


In my case my weight load on my tandem axle 30' Classic Slideout ranges from 8,600 lbs to 9,100 lbs. I keep pressures at max inflation per the sidewall and the trailer is stored inside out of the sunlight and weather. I've experienced belt separations with the D rated Marathons at the end of season 3 of use and separations on my E rated Maxxis tires on the first trip of year 4 of use. Thankfully I have caught the separation prior to them reaching blowouts on the road.

I'm not sure where Discount has determined that 1/3 of the strength of an ST tire has been expended after 3 years, but if that statement holds water, it may explain my experience. The question in some minds is their use of the word strength. Does strength come into play regarding load capacity? Or does it tie to resistance to road damage or other stresses? I really don't know. But in my mind it may be directly related to load and reserve capacity. So I've come to the conclusion that life expectancy in my case with my trailer for an ST tire is about 3 years and that for me is unacceptable, and on economics alone makes an LT alternative a better solution. At this point my Michelin 16" LT's have passed the life cycle of either of my previous ST tire brands.

I think weight of your trailer has a lot to do with an ST tire's life. In many cases it may be a factor in why ST tires perform well for some and not for others.

Jack
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Old 02-18-2017, 03:11 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcanavera View Post
Here's a clip from DiscountTireDirects's internet site regarding ST tires. I think this one has given me the best insite as to why ST tires have proven to be failure prone in my usage.

Time
Time and the elements weaken a trailer tire.
In approximately 3 years, roughly one third of the tire's strength is gone.
Three to five years is the projected life of a normal trailer tire.


In my case my weight load on my tandem axle 30' Classic Slideout ranges from 8,600 lbs to 9,100 lbs. I keep pressures at max inflation per the sidewall and the trailer is stored inside out of the sunlight and weather. I've experienced belt separations with the D rated Marathons at the end of season 3 of use and separations on my E rated Maxxis tires on the first trip of year 4 of use. Thankfully I have caught the separation prior to them reaching blowouts on the road.

I'm not sure where Discount has determined that 1/3 of the strength of an ST tire has been expended after 3 years, but if that statement holds water, it may explain my experience. The question in some minds is their use of the word strength. Does strength come into play regarding load capacity? Or does it tie to resistance to road damage or other stresses? I really don't know. But in my mind it may be directly related to load and reserve capacity. So I've come to the conclusion that life expectancy in my case with my trailer for an ST tire is about 3 years and that for me is unacceptable, and on economics alone makes an LT alternative a better solution. At this point my Michelin 16" LT's have passed the life cycle of either of my previous ST tire brands.

I think weight of your trailer has a lot to do with an ST tire's life. In many cases it may be a factor in why ST tires perform well for some and not for others.

Jack
Jack,

I've had similar recco's from many sources too.

From what I understand, this is due to the long time sitting, in the elements , exposed to sun, & without being run/driven - which the movement & heat of the tires releases the polymers into the rubber to keep the rubber in them supple & pliable.

Any reputable tire rep will tell you the same thing for cars/trucks/suvs/vans if they are not regularly driven &/or exposed to high sun &/or smog locations. This is even more so for "Garage Queens" - so they'll tell you the same thing about 3-5 years, although it is dependent upon an inspection in any case. Many of the folks in our local Porsche club fall in that Queen category, & I can see & alert them to the tire cracking when judging their cars at our concours events.

For example - we only drive our DD cars about 3000+/- miles a year eaach - now that our kids are grown & gone, I office at home, & my wife works 2 miles away, & all shopping is generally close by. So in 2015 I had to replace all 4 tires on both cars at only 3-4 years old, due to sidewall cracking - with treads still at about 80%.

I don't know how they came up with the 1/3 of strength gone either, but maybe there are legit studies on that.

In any case, if the trailer or car/truck/etc. are driven/pulled more regularly, & protected from the sun & elements/pollutants when sitting - then you probably don't need to replace as often.

It still pays to inspect your tires on all types of vehicles regularly, & replace on trailers at the commonly recommended 5 years, & no more than 8 years on powered vehicles.

We hit 5 years this July 2017, but I still inspect them every trip, & will change out even if they look good then.

Best to be safe!
Tom
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Old 02-18-2017, 03:22 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapriRacer View Post
I'm sorry, but I just can not let this pass:

I'm sorry, but that just isn't the way it works. Further, ST tires are basically constructed the same way ANY tire is constructed - whether it is a passenger car tire, an LT tire, an over the road truck tire or aircraft tires - what have you.

Where the apparent problem with ST tires is 2 fold: They are not up to date with regards to technology. LT tires were brought up to date following the Ford/Firestone situation some 16 years ago - but before that, they behaved very much like ST tires.

The second problem is that trailer manufacturers haven't always done a good job of providing adequately sized tires for their trailer. The fact that the trailers are restricted to 65 mph due to the tires, but this fact is not obvious to a neophyte should be a clue.

A third fact is that tires can be damaged by road debris. A small nail can puncture a tire and the end result may be unrecognizable as a road hazard. In other words, we are never going to completely eliminate tire failures - at least as long as they require gas pressure to operate.

Personally, I think this is all changing. There just doesn't seem to be as many complaints about tire failures as there used to be.
From my understanding from tire experts more knowledgeable than I, both the Maxxis & Carlisle STs are using the same up to date tire construction & rubber compositions, as their respective LT tires. Pete Brock selected the Carlisle Tires for their higher speed ratings on his new Aerovault trailer, & he advertises it that way - which you may have seen, being a racer yourself.

http://www.bre2.net/aerovault.info/

BTW - cool to see a vintage racer in Capris! Cool little German built Fords from my back-in-the-day days. A good buddy had a nice II with the V6, which was a real screamer! His was a street car.

Cheers!
Tom
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Old 02-19-2017, 12:47 PM   #55
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New Goodyear Endurance tires!!
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