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09-11-2016, 07:09 PM
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#21
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Rivet Master
2017 30' Classic
Anna Maria
, Florida
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,642
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSU1981
I know the max inflation for this tire is 80 psi & with this it has a max load of 2,680 lbs.
AS owners that have this tire -- what P are you running at & why?
We are in Texas where it can get quite hot in the summer --- do you recommend a different ambient temp inflation in summer vs. winter?
We have a 2015 27FB FC that I am upgrading the 15" GYM's to this tire.
Thanks,
Glenn
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My educated guess would be 80 PSI for E rated load 65 PSI for D rated load. The 27' trailer weight would fall in the D range.
At 80 PSI under a light load it will feel like riding on solid wheels.
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09-11-2016, 08:33 PM
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#22
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Living Riveted since 2013
2016 Interstate Lounge Ext
Green Cove Springs
, Florida
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 8,201
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We looked at the Michelin load charts and chose 67 PSI cold for our 16" tires. It seems to work great - Rocinante tows like a dream, and when we reach our destination, the cushions, etc., are still where we left them. We also use Centramatics, which likely help with that.
__________________
Rocinante Piccolo is our new-to-us 2016 Interstate Lounge 3500 EXT
(Named for John Steinbeck's camper from "Travels With Charley")
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09-12-2016, 06:21 AM
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#23
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Rivet Master
2013 30' Classic
Greenwood
, Mississippi
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 12,111
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65 PSI per the placard on the side of the trailer.
Generally heat up to 70 PSI while traveling.
__________________
2013 Classic 30 Limited
2007 Silver Toyota Tundra Crew Max Limited 5.7 iForce
2006 Vivid Black Harley-Davidson Road King Classic
1999 Black Nissan Pathfinder LE
TAC #MS-10
WBCCI #1811, Region 6, Unit 56
Airforums #70955
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09-12-2016, 07:22 AM
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#24
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.-. -...
2017 25' International
Niagara-on-the-Lake
, ON Canada
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 1,836
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Why Not To Inflate to Maximum Sidewall Pressure
Aside from the argument that you only need maximum tire pressure when fully loaded to the tires weight limit, I don't understand why so many people inflate their tires, cold, to the maximum indicated sidewall pressure.
Won't you be overinflated when travelling - approximately 1psi per 10 °F increase as the air temperature increases during the day and the tire temperature increases due to the rotation? Excessive pressure may lead to impact-breaks, decrease braking performance, and cause uneven wear.
Why not inflate to a lower cold pressure by calculating how much the pressure will increase during your travels to ensure that you aren't over inflated.
Personally, I have weighed my trailer axle and plan on a travelling pressure, taking into account the forecast air temperature and the increase in pressure, from rolling. I am familiar with the pressure increases from my TPMS readings and the ideal pressure is indicated for that weight on the GYM inflation table. There must be a similar table for Michelin tires.
__________________
Ray B.
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09-12-2016, 07:58 AM
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#25
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Rivet Master
2007 30' Classic
Oswego
, Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,656
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adventure.AS
Aside from the argument that you only need maximum tire pressure when fully loaded to the tires weight limit, I don't understand why so many people inflate their tires, cold, to the maximum indicated sidewall pressure.
Won't you be overinflated when travelling - approximately 1psi per 10 °F increase as the air temperature increases during the day and the tire temperature increases due to the rotation? Excessive pressure may lead to impact-breaks, decrease braking performance, and cause uneven wear.
Attachment 271551
Why not inflate to a lower cold pressure by calculating how much the pressure will increase during your travels to ensure that you aren't over inflated.
Personally, I have weighed my trailer axle and plan on a travelling pressure, taking into account the forecast air temperature and the increase in pressure, from rolling. I am familiar with the pressure increases from my TPMS readings and the ideal pressure is indicated for that weight on the GYM inflation table. There must be a similar table for Michelin tires.
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There has been much written here by tire experts relative to your questions. Search on forum member CapriRacer...he is a tire engineer.
Personally, I have tried 70, 75 and 80psi with my Michelin LTX M/S tires and have found NO difference in ride quality as judged by loose rivets, things shaking or moving around. I run 80 psi always now for the last 2 seasons. I have a 30' Classic with 7500 - 8000 pounds on the axles.
(BTW- pressure rise during the day has no bearing on how much to set your tires at relative to cold pressure setting. The sidewall cold max pressure accounts for a normal 10% or so rise due to tire flexing....it will be somewhat more than 10% when accounting for ambient temperature rise during the day as well as sun loads. I typically see about 12% rise...and a bit more on the sunny side. This rise is pretty much the same at 70, 75 or 80psi in my particular case)
__________________
-Rich-
"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green
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09-12-2016, 08:01 AM
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#26
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New Member
2017 25' International
Moses Lake
, Washington
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 2
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I own a auto service / tire shop in Moses Lake Wa. What you have are pickup tires. I would check with your local tire shop and get prices on ST radial trailer tires. Pickup tires and trailer tires are not the same. We will not install LT tires on any trailer per liability issues and customer safety.
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09-12-2016, 08:04 AM
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#27
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Rivet Master
2007 30' Classic
Oswego
, Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,656
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichS25
I own a auto service / tire shop in Moses Lake Wa. What you have are pickup tires. I would check with your local tire shop and get prices on ST radial trailer tires. Pickup tires and trailer tires are not the same. We will not install LT tires on any trailer per liability issues and customer safety.
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This has also been discussed at great length. Perhaps you aren't aware that AS (and maybe others), are supplying LT tires as standard and optional equipment on many models from the factory?
__________________
-Rich-
"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green
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09-12-2016, 09:39 AM
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#28
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Living Riveted since 2013
2016 Interstate Lounge Ext
Green Cove Springs
, Florida
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 8,201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dznf0g
This has also been discussed at great length. Perhaps you aren't aware that AS (and maybe others), are supplying LT tires as standard and optional equipment on many models from the factory?
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I'm with you, but it's his shop and he can do what he likes there.
I will also say that after the scary experience we had setting our previous GYM ST tires to 65 cold and then running them thru the Mojave, we would never do that again.
As others have noted above, we use the Michelin-provided load tables for the tire featured in this thread to determine our optimal cold pressure. We'll trust Michelin's load tables over any opinions presented here, thanks.
__________________
Rocinante Piccolo is our new-to-us 2016 Interstate Lounge 3500 EXT
(Named for John Steinbeck's camper from "Travels With Charley")
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09-12-2016, 10:30 AM
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#29
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Rivet Master
2008 22' Safari
Spicewood (W of Austin)
, Texas
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 2,950
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Airstream will sell whatever wheels/tires customers demand in the marketplace. It's called marketing. Airstream also refuses to warranty any damage caused by tire failures. That is the tire mfr'r and customer's responsibility.
This has always brought up semi-heated arguments because individual choices are owned by those individuals who feel they must defend their choice. However, if one will read the many responses on this subject, one will come to the realization there is no standard (control group) to which one might legitimately judge the best practice.
"I use XX psi and it tows like a dream." Of COURSE it does! It's a well-designed trailer. It will tow like a dream until that tire blows!
So many use 35/65/70/ or-whatever suits-and-satisfies their imaginary theories that no sense can be made of it, and no mandatory reporting or recipient of the nonexistent reports has been designated to collect the data. I.E., there is NO DATA...because none of the user-group participates in any form of testing to which the tire industry rigorously subjects their products over decades of experience. The only reliable experience comes from the tire industry who designs, builds, and carries the liability of defective product, and who universally recommends max sidewall pressures for trailers. Why? Because that is the strongest, most failure-resistant condition at which the tire may be operated which will also provide the most sway-resistance.
Tread-wear? Not a problem with the vast majority of trailers anyway, because they chronologically should be changed-out long before most owners can wear out the tread.
The most damaging condition a tire can suffer is underinflation.
BTW, any tire running pressure at/above 65 should have metal valve stems. So should any off-pavement or other severe-service operation. Rubber, pull-through stems are not designed for high-pressure severe-service.
Here we are, living the most advanced state of technology ever achieved and otherwise literate people ignore the only source of reliable data on the subject, the trailer and trailer-tire and rubber manufacturers.
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09-12-2016, 11:17 AM
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#30
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Rivet Master
2007 30' Classic
Oswego
, Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,656
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocinante
I'm with you, but it's his shop and he can do what he likes there.
I will also say that after the scary experience we had setting our previous GYM ST tires to 65 cold and then running them thru the Mojave, we would never do that again.
As others have noted above, we use the Michelin-provided load tables for the tire featured in this thread to determine our optimal cold pressure. We'll trust Michelin's load tables over any opinions presented here, thanks.
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Hey, I'm not telling anybody what to do, just relaying my digestion of all that has been previously discussed, so we don't have to go down that road again. I do trust the info provided by both tire engineers who have participated in the past.
I certainly understand RichS25's right and responsibility to pay attention to tire manufacturers and his own liability concerns. I live those every day, but sometimes a re-review is in order, so as not to lose business.
My determination of proper pressures, for me, are a culmination of digesting all the material here, my experience and formal education and training, and specific to my weights.
__________________
-Rich-
"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green
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09-12-2016, 12:23 PM
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#31
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Moderator
2004 30' Classic Slideout
Fenton
, Missouri
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,403
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I run 80 psi due to the weight of my 30' slide out. Keep in mind that the maximum pressure rating for your tires does not need adjustment for weather. So in hot weather the tires can safely run above the 80 psi mark but still be within design pressure limits. So the only adjustments I make is air addition as we get into the colder days to get the tires back to 80 psi. I might reduce pressure if it goes above 80 psi, but that is when the tires are cold and before the light of day.
Jack
__________________
Jack Canavera
STL Mo.
AIR #56 S/OS#15
'04 Classic 30' S.O.,'03 GMC Savana 2500
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09-12-2016, 03:45 PM
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#32
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Living Riveted since 2013
2016 Interstate Lounge Ext
Green Cove Springs
, Florida
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 8,201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxite
Here we are, living the most advanced state of technology ever achieved and otherwise literate people ignore the only source of reliable data on the subject, the trailer and trailer-tire and rubber manufacturers.
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Yer kinda forgetting the load tables mentioned above, cited here again for reference: http://www.michelintruck.com/assets/...k_Sept2011.pdf
See page 11 and page 25.
At 65 PSI cold, this tire carries 2,335 pounds. Multiplied by 4 (two axles), that's 9340 pounds. The GVWR for our trailer is 7,600 pounds. That gives us a 23% margin of safety over the maximum permissible load for the trailer. We're feeling OK about that. Yep, tows like a dream.
__________________
Rocinante Piccolo is our new-to-us 2016 Interstate Lounge 3500 EXT
(Named for John Steinbeck's camper from "Travels With Charley")
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09-12-2016, 04:21 PM
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#33
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Rivet Master
2013 28' Flying Cloud
Central
, Canada
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,082
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocinante
See page 11 and page 25.
At 65 PSI cold, this tire carries 2,335 pounds. Multiplied by 4 (two axles), that's 9340 pounds. The GVWR for our trailer is 7,600 pounds. That gives us a 23% margin of safety over the maximum permissible load for the trailer. We're feeling OK about that. Yep, tows like a dream.
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Am I missing something here. I look at the chart and it looks like one would be good for 3880 LBS per axle (7760 total weight) at 50psi. So with my 28' having a ready to camp weight of 6500 - 6700 depending on the trip. I should be good to go with 50 psi. Is this not correct?
Screenshot of page #22
Thanks
__________________
Trying to use my camera to create memories - not photographs!
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09-12-2016, 04:43 PM
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#34
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Rivet Master
2013 30' Classic
Greenwood
, Mississippi
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 12,111
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LT225/75R16
4670 at 65 psi
4880 at 70 psi
What am I missing?
I have a tandem axle trailer with 8,800# on the trailer tires and 10,000# GVW.
Looks good to me.
Sent from my iPad using Airstream Forums
__________________
2013 Classic 30 Limited
2007 Silver Toyota Tundra Crew Max Limited 5.7 iForce
2006 Vivid Black Harley-Davidson Road King Classic
1999 Black Nissan Pathfinder LE
TAC #MS-10
WBCCI #1811, Region 6, Unit 56
Airforums #70955
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09-12-2016, 07:40 PM
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#35
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2 Rivet Member
2012 27' FB Eddie Bauer
Laguna Niguel
, California
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 23
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tire inflation psi
Quote:
Originally Posted by PSU1981
I know the max inflation for this tire is 80 psi & with this it has a max load of 2,680 lbs.
AS owners that have this tire -- what P are you running at & why?
We are in Texas where it can get quite hot in the summer --- do you recommend a different ambient temp inflation in summer vs. winter?
We have a 2015 27FB FC that I am upgrading the 15" GYM's to this tire.
Thanks,
Glenn
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We have a 2012 Eddie Bauer 27 ft with Michlin 16" rims and we use between 75psi to 80 depending on the ambient temp Works great
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09-12-2016, 07:54 PM
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#36
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Rivet Master
2007 30' Classic
Oswego
, Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,656
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TSOMMY
We have a 2012 Eddie Bauer 27 ft with Michlin 16" rims and we use between 75psi to 80 depending on the ambient temp Works great
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Search on CapriRacer....it's all been covered.
IIRC, deduct 10% capacity for those of you running the 15" P tires and deduct another 15% for a margin for both P and 16" LT. That's 15% total for LTs and 25% for Ps.
(note: Not trusting my memory on the 15% figure...search and find)
Edit: Not sure why it quoted TSOMMY...meant to quote Arcticfox...weird glitch
__________________
-Rich-
"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green
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09-12-2016, 08:07 PM
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#37
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Living Riveted since 2013
2016 Interstate Lounge Ext
Green Cove Springs
, Florida
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 8,201
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Hi there. That page shows numbers for two tires, one on each end of the axle, whereas the other page shows per tire. So while one tire will carry 2335 at 65PSI, two tires would carry 4670 at 65PSI. Confused me at first as well, hope that helps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcticfox
Am I missing something here. I look at the chart and it looks like one would be good for 3880 LBS per axle (7760 total weight) at 50psi. So with my 28' having a ready to camp weight of 6500 - 6700 depending on the trip. I should be good to go with 50 psi. Is this not correct?
Screenshot of page #22
Thanks
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__________________
Rocinante Piccolo is our new-to-us 2016 Interstate Lounge 3500 EXT
(Named for John Steinbeck's camper from "Travels With Charley")
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09-12-2016, 08:28 PM
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#38
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Rivet Master
2013 28' Flying Cloud
Central
, Canada
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,082
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocinante
Hi there. That page shows numbers for two tires, one on each end of the axle, whereas the other page shows per tire. So while one tire will carry 2335 at 65PSI, two tires would carry 4670 at 65PSI. Confused me at first as well, hope that helps.
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Ok it official I'm more confused now than ever....
According to the chart (for two tires) the PSI at 50lbs would be 3880 (or 1940 per tire). Now I have 4-tires so I would still then take the (1940x4) or (3880x2) and still get 7760 lbs as an acceptable weight to have on these tires.
Now if you look at it at your desired setting of 65lbs the cart indicates that you should be carrying 9340lbs (4670x2) or (2335x4). So in my mind the cart is telling us that 65 lbs is to high and 50 is closer to what our trailers come in at.
Now as I posted earlier in this thread. I contacted Andrew Thompson from Can-Am who is considered an expert on towing and hitches. He responded to my email stating that with a ready to camp weight of 6500 - 6700 LBS he felt my tire pressure should be 45 - 50 lbs cold. From what I can gleam from this chart, I would say he is very close and the tire manufacturer is backing his finding up with this chart.
Again, am I missing something here?
__________________
Trying to use my camera to create memories - not photographs!
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09-12-2016, 08:33 PM
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#39
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Rivet Master
2007 30' Classic
Oswego
, Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,656
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcticfox
Ok it official I'm more confused now than ever....
According to the chart (for two tires) the PSI at 50lbs would be 3880 (or 1940 per tire). Now I have 4-tires so I would still then take the (1940x4) or (3880x2) and still get 7760 lbs as an acceptable weight to have on these tires.
Now if you look at it at your desired setting of 65lbs the cart indicates that you should be carrying 9340lbs (4670x2) or (2335x4). So in my mind the cart is telling us that 65 lbs is to high and 50 is closer to what our trailers come in at.
Now as I posted earlier in this thread. I contacted Andrew Thompson from Can-Am who is considered an expert on towing and hitches. He responded to my email stating that with a ready to camp weight of 6500 - 6700 LBS he felt my tire pressure should be 45 - 50 lbs cold. From what I can gleam from this chart, I would say he is very close and the tire manufacturer is backing his finding up with this chart.
Again, am I missing something here?
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The chart reflects a passenger tire or LT installed on a TV, not a trailer. Again, Search on the tire engineers' posts for "penalties", or margins necessary when placing a TV tire on a TT.
__________________
-Rich-
"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green
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09-12-2016, 10:09 PM
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#40
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Living Riveted since 2013
2016 Interstate Lounge Ext
Green Cove Springs
, Florida
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 8,201
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Per the tire engineers around here, there's no "penalty" or "de-rating" for LT (light truck) tires on trailers, though said de-rating does apply to "P-metric" (passenger car) tires. There are lots and lots of threads on this topic that clarify the issue, just use the "Google" search feature to find threads that discuss de-rating in detail.
Agree that at 65 PSI per the load table above our tires could carry 23% more than is absolutely required. Again, per the tire engineers here, even without de-rating it's not a bad idea to have a safety margin - in part because some tires may carry significantly more weight than others based on how the trailer is loaded. So, we went with 65 PSI in our tires.
__________________
Rocinante Piccolo is our new-to-us 2016 Interstate Lounge 3500 EXT
(Named for John Steinbeck's camper from "Travels With Charley")
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