Factory tires

[DCPAS]

Originally Posted by GCinSC2

WellSaid11,

Not an answer to your query but a bit of the way it was a few yrs ago. And just an overview.

Gary: Well described. I think this is kind of the point though. When most trailer tires were ticking time bombs (granted Maxxis was better - I had good luck with them too), owners went to LT tires for relief. Now that decent trailer tires are available (Endurance and others), why go to LT tires? ST tires are built for the application. Why spend the money to switch to something that isn't?

[DCPAS]

Originally Posted by Tireman9

ST tires are supposedly rated for higher load capacity as the load formula is based on a lower operation speed with 65 mph stated in the Tire & Rim Association design manual.
"Speed Rating" Symbol is actually a rating of handling capability with higher symbol tires usually deliver crisper handling and steering response.

Tireman: You are aware that there now a bunch of ST tires with higher speed ratings, right? In that context, wouldn't tolerating heat be the issue for ST tires at higher speeds?

[WellSaid11]

Originally Posted by GCinSC2

WellSaid11,

Not an answer to your query but a bit of the way it was a few yrs ago. And just an overview.

There was thread after thread about problems with the GYM. I found a belt seperation on my then about 3 yr old GYM's while in camp and removed three wheels in camp and got new GYM's thinking end of a close story. But after that one of my new GYM tires had a sidewall bulge (not indentation) shortly after installation on my 2007 Classic Ltd 30' Slide Out with a 7940 Lb UBW 10,300 Lb GVWR yes possibly the heaviest tandem axle rig AS made.

My tire shop offered to replace the GYM's and I chose MAXXIS and had several years service out of them.

The GYM failure threads just kept coming. The MAXXIS looked a bit like R&R time and no suitable replacement was in the market.

But many here I believe were just fed up with the potential ticking time bomb status and I followed the lead of several early adopters of the Michelin LT tires and I felt it was a better choice to use a tire with a darn good reputation and my personal experiences included to use a quality tire even though it meant changing from 15's to 16's added to the price.

The GYM "reputation" left a bitter taste in many owners mouths and it was years before a new and improved GYE entered the market and then several years more before the GYE started to get good owner reviews.

It was not a July end of GYM's and in August new GYE's appeared it was years.

I'm on my 2nd set of Michelins on the 30' these are the Agilis and I'm satisfied and have not had one issue with either of the two sets of Michelins I've used on it. PSI and temp are monitored via a Dill internal TPMS system. And personally seeing the same LT tire in the lobby at JC as you walked in left quite an impression.

Gary

Great analysis Gary.

I have used almost every brand of tire in all sorts of applications - from trailers, to travel trailers, to dump trailers, motorcycles, off road, on road, cars made to race and Jeeps made to crawl.

I have had over 30 sets of Michelins on different applications, including cars on the track at 150 mph+. While I have had various issues with Pirellis, Coopers, Bridgestones, Goodyears, Hoosiers, Contis, Dunlops, Firestones and BF Goodrich tires, I literally have never had a problem with a Michelin tire (other than cost ).

Maybe my experience is an anomaly, but I don't think so. Many of the tires above are great tires but they have not given me the same confidence across the board as have Michelins.

As far as trailer tires are concerned, I have had problems in the past but this is my first experience with the GYE setup. I am sure they are much better than the exploding Marathons, but I will switch them out for Michelins on a 16" rim.

Originally Posted by DCPAS

Gary: Well described. I think this is kind of the point though. When most trailer tires were ticking time bombs (granted Maxxis was better - I had good luck with them too), owners went to LT tires for relief. Now that decent trailer tires are available (Endurance and others), why go to LT tires? ST tires are built for the application. Why spend the money to switch to something that isn't?

While ST tires are allegedly "built" for a trailer, that doesn't mean that they are somehow "better" for the travel trailer application than a proper spec LT tire that is "not built" for a TT application.

I have a vinyl floor and Girard water heater in my AS that are "built" for it, but that doesn't mean that upgrading to an AduraMAX LVP floor or a Truma water heater isn't a worthwhile upgrade even if not "built" for it.

Yes, "TETO" as one of the forum members says ad infinitum - but it is pretty clear that many have found that a proper spec of a Michelin LT tire can be, and often times is, a better choice than an OEM ST GYE tire.

[Crasher]

Can I have your old tires?

[ROBERT CROSS]

:

Originally Posted by Crasher

Can I have your old tires?

TeeHee 👍

TETO


Bob
🇺🇦🇺🇸🇺🇦

[WellSaid11]

Originally Posted by Crasher

Can I have your old tires?

Yep, you sure can!

$600 for the tires and a good $500 shipping from CA. What a deal! Send me your PayPal info!

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

:

TeeHee ��

TETO


Bob
������������

Like I said - ad infinitum....

You are still the funniest guy you know.

[AlbertF]

Originally Posted by LynnCalcote

This may not be entirely relevant, but my experience with the GY Endurance was nightmarish. With less than 10,000 miles on them, I had blow-outs on the Endurance tires that came on my truck. Granted, these were on my truck and had used the truck to pull my fifth wheel trailer. On one blow-out, I was pulling the fifth wheel and on the second blow-out, I was not pulling anything. Each time, the blow-outs resulted in over $11,000 damage to the truck. (Thank God for good insurance.) Like I said, this may not be relevant, but I drive on Michelins now.

Those would have been Goodyear Endurance RSA truck tires. They are not the same as the Goodyear Endurance ST trailer tires.

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted by DCPAS

Tireman: You are aware that there now a bunch of ST tires with higher speed ratings, right? In that context, wouldn't tolerating heat be the issue for ST tires at higher speeds?

Allow me to answer that.

While heat is an issue for higher speeds, it's centrifugal force that is the dominant issue. That's why high speed passenger car tires have cap plies - to restrict tire growth due to centrifugal forces - and the higher the speed rating, the more cap plies.

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted by WellSaid11

@Tireman9-

In your opinion, do you think running a Michelin Agilis LT CrossClimate 121R (or other appropriate rating for your trailer) at the appropriate size, on 16” wheels and inflated properly is a better, worse or no difference decision over the same scenario with a Goodyear Endurance ST tire?

In my opinion, not only do we not have enough information, but I'll bet it is extremely close. IOW, it doesn't really matter.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by WellSaid11

Yep, you sure can!

$600 for the tires and a good $500 shipping from CA. What a deal! Send me your PayPal info!




Like I said - ad infinitum....

You are still the funniest guy you know.

Keep trying, you never know, it may happen. TETO

Bob
🇺🇦🇺🇸🇺🇦

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by LynnCalcote

This may not be entirely relevant, but my experience with the GY Endurance was nightmarish. With less than 10,000 miles on them, I had blow-outs on the Endurance tires that came on my truck. Granted, these were on my truck and had used the truck to pull my fifth wheel trailer. On one blow-out, I was pulling the fifth wheel and on the second blow-out, I was not pulling anything. Each time, the blow-outs resulted in over $11,000 damage to the truck. (Thank God for good insurance.) Like I said, this may not be relevant, but I drive on Michelins now.

I trust you were not running ST type Endurance tires on your truck. ST type are absolutely NOT approved for use on passenger carrying vehicles but only on trailers. People need to pay more attention to the actual type and size tires they use.



Did your truck have TPMS? What was the reported pressure before the failures? Was the failure a Sidewall Run-Low flex failure or a Belt separation?

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by DCPAS

Tireman: You are aware that there now a bunch of ST tires with higher speed ratings, right? In that context, wouldn't tolerating heat be the issue for ST tires at higher speeds?

The calculation for Load capacity for ST type tires presented by Goodyear and approved by all tire companies is based on 65 mph operational speed. While it is possible to make improvements in tire load capacity I have to wonder what "magic" rubber is used in ST type tires that allows them to support an extra 10 to 15% load. Why don't tire companies use this "magic" rubber on their other tires?

[gypsydad]

For all your "TETO" folks, "which" is the meaning of TETO?

Meanings if you Google:

Urban Dictionary: Teto "Teto" is a colloquial term used in Mexico to refer to someone who is nerdy, childlike, slow or has a weak demeanor, thus making this person some sort of social outcast. It lies somewhere between idiot and silly.

Wikipedia (0.00 / 0 votes) Rate this definition: Teto. Teto, or "Teto the Clown",

TETO - Definition by Acronym Finder Meaning; TETO: They Eat Their Own; TETO: Test Early, Test Often

"Actually, Teto Beverage, or "Teto" as we call him by his name, is a very good friend of our family...you may know him from his "Vodka"! I find

From Gary; post #63 above:
"While ST tires are allegedly "built" for a trailer, that doesn't mean that they are somehow "better" for the travel trailer application than a proper spec LT tire that is "not built" for a TT application.

I have a vinyl floor and Girard water heater in my AS that are "built" for it, but that doesn't mean that upgrading to an AduraMAX LVP floor or a Truma water heater isn't a worthwhile upgrade even if not "built" for it.

Yes, "TETO" as one of the forum members says ad infinitum - but it is pretty clear that many have found that a proper spec of a Michelin LT tire can be, and often times is, a better choice than an OEM ST GYE tire." ??

Guess it's like TV's, or hitches right? Everyone has an opinion? The GYE ST tires are 10 ply tires, specifically built with "stronger" sidewalls for the stress/load of a TT; Michelin makes a great LT rated tire...I run on my TV's, and yes, they are installed on some models of TT's also...but, that doesn't mean they are a "better" tire for a TT application, right? More expensive for sure and perhaps better "mileage" than the GYE ST tires, but Micheline does not recommend them for TT's....call Michelin and ask them, if you don't believe, TETO!

( by the way, that's Teto on the left with my son and I in Austin when my son returned from Afghanistan couple years back.)

[2012FB]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

....but Micheline does not recommend them for TT's....call Michelin and ask them, if you don't believe,

This argument is a regular theme. But, it is interesting, as you acknowledge, that Airstream installs Michelin LT tires on higher-end Airstream Travel Trailer models. Wonder if Airstream has been in contact with Michelin to validate the installation and use of LT tires on an Airstream trailer or if they just put them on for the heck of it without any consideration at all. Really? One would be on pretty firm ground to assume Airstream puts LT tires on higher-end models because, gee wiz, Airstream considers them superior to ST. I know there are those of you that disagree and feel that Airstream really doesn't know what they are doing and obviously have not been in contact with Michelin. After all Michelin is the company warranting the tires. Maybe Michelin denies all Airstream tire warranties and sends the customer back to Airstream, but I would not know as I have not had one fail on an Airstream TT.

[WellSaid11]

Originally Posted by 2012FB

This argument is a regular theme. But, it is interesting, as you acknowledge, that Airstream installs Michelin LT tires on higher-end Airstream Travel Trailer models. Wonder if Airstream has been in contact with Michelin to validate the installation and use of LT tires on an Airstream trailer or if they just put them on for the heck of it without any consideration at all. Really? One would be on pretty firm ground to assume Airstream puts LT tires on higher-end models because, gee wiz, Airstream considers them superior to ST. I know there are those of you that disagree and feel that Airstream really doesn't know what they are doing and obviously have not been in contact with Michelin. After all Michelin is the company warranting the tires. Maybe Michelin denies all Airstream tire warranties and sends the customer back to Airstream, but I would not know as I have not had one fail on an Airstream TT.

Exactly.

This is Exhibit A as to why the Michelin LT tires are clearly acceptable for use on AS TTs. To assume that AS is clueless about this use and/or that Michelin is unaware of this use is a bit foolish.

It is way easier to absorb the cost of 4x $400 (MSRP @ retail) Michelin LT tires on a $150k to $225k AS than on a $50k-$125k or so AS.

2x or 4x $150 (MSRP @ retail) tires for Goodyears is a much easier fit into the price point on a $50k-$125k AS.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by WellSaid11

Exactly.

This is Exhibit A as to why the Michelin LT tires are clearly acceptable for use on AS TTs. To assume that AS is clueless about this use and/or that Michelin is unaware of this use is a bit foolish.

It is way easier to absorb the cost of 4x $400 (MSRP @ retail) Michelin LT tires on a $150k to $225k AS than on a $50k-$125k or so AS.

2x or 4x $150 (MSRP @ retail) tires for Goodyears is a much easier fit into the price point on a $50k-$125k AS.

What is "acceptable" mean to you?? I love Michelins and I do run on my TV and my GLE350; no issue with the tire or I would not use. I have also used on my older 25' Airstream when Michelin still offered a 15" LT rated tire...but they stopped making them several years ago; enter the GY Endurance...I don't want/need to upgrade to a 16" wheel, just to buy the Michelin. Nothing wrong with doing that; just $$. My point is, Michelin "does not" recommend nor endorse use on TT's. I don't know about the warranty on this application, with or without Airstream installing them as OEM on some of their models. We all understand this, right?

To be clear on this, call up Michelin or talk with a dealer about the warranty. I was told they do not/will not honor warranty if used on a TT. Has this changed??

[2012FB]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

To be clear on this, call up Michelin or talk with a dealer about the warranty. I was told they do not/will not honor warranty if used on a TT. Has this changed??

Don’t need to call Michelin or a dealer because Michelin LTs come standard on Airstream travel trailers. To be clear I’ll ask again. Do you think Airstream puts Michelin LT tires on their trailers without researching the application, use and getting approval from Michelin to do so? Why would Airstream go to the trouble and added expense of doing so if the ST is actually a better tire? I have a $130k investment in my Airstream trailer. Quality tires for an extra couple thousand dollars is worth it to me. No fear of blow outs, trailer damage, trying to change out a tire on the side of a busy highway or having to travel further down the the road to just get off a narrow two lane or waiting for hours/day because the one blowout took both tires out. I never think about my 16” Michelin XPS RIB tires and I don’t run TPMS.

[WellSaid11]

Originally Posted by 2012FB

Don’t need to call Michelin or a dealer because Michelin LTs come standard on Airstream travel trailers. To be clear I’ll ask again. Do you think Airstream puts Michelin LT tires on their trailers without researching the application, use and getting approval from Michelin to do so? Why would Airstream go to the trouble and added expense of doing so if the ST is actually a better tire? I have a $130k investment in my Airstream trailer. Quality tires for an extra couple thousand dollars is worth it to me. No fear of blow outs, trailer damage, trying to change out a tire on the side of a busy highway or having to travel further down the the road to just get off a narrow two lane or waiting for hours/day because the one blowout took both tires out. I never think about my 16” Michelin XPS RIB tires and I don’t run TPMS.

Yep.

Originally Posted by gypsydad

What is "acceptable" mean to you?? I love Michelins and I do run on my TV and my GLE350; no issue with the tire or I would not use. I have also used on my older 25' Airstream when Michelin still offered a 15" LT rated tire...but they stopped making them several years ago; enter the GY Endurance...I don't want/need to upgrade to a 16" wheel, just to buy the Michelin. Nothing wrong with doing that; just $$. My point is, Michelin "does not" recommend nor endorse use on TT's. I don't know about the warranty on this application, with or without Airstream installing them as OEM on some of their models. We all understand this, right?

To be clear on this, call up Michelin or talk with a dealer about the warranty. I was told they do not/will not honor warranty if used on a TT. Has this changed??

Although Airstream and Michelin don't do everything "right" all the time, "acceptable" means it will work for the the application: safety, performance and longevity. Airstream "experts" - in this case - MICHELIN (Classics), Airstream (Classics), Vinnie @ Northbay and many others put Michelin LT tires on and I will do the same.

I want a 16" wheel because I like the appearance of different wheels and the height, have a 3" lift kit already and many places we go in the West that are BLM lands have awful roads, and that height and tire type is an advantage.

But I guess by your logic if I had bought a Classic from AS and it had Michelin Agilis or other Michelin LT tires on it since they are only "acceptable" at best and apparently downright dangerous at worst - I should immediately buy an ST tire instead like a GY Endurance? If GY and others only make them in 15" wheels I should scrap those 16" inch wheels and get the 15"?

That makes a lot of sense.

Better yet, here is Michelin's OEM Warranty link direct from them:

https://dgaddcosprod.blob.core.windo...l-warranty.pdf

"As the original purchaser of a vehicle equipped with MICHELIN® passenger or light truck tires, you are covered by all the benefits and conditions (subject to the maintenance recommendations and safety warnings) contained in this booklet."

You keep saying things like "My point is, Michelin "does not" recommend nor endorse use on TT's....."

Originally Posted by gypsydad

I was told they do not/will not honor warranty if used on a TT.

Who exactly told you this and when? Putting thousands of them on a Classic is just a giant mistake? Really?

So I guess I will call Michelin on Monday and ask them why they are providing an OEM tire to Airstream for Classics (with their knowledge to be sure) that they do not "recommend" or "endorse" (as you say) for that use, that is not fit for the intended use and is likely somehow dangerous based upon trailer use, engineering, etc. and ask what will come of my warranty on a new OEM tire when I buy a Classic? You said "Michelin "does not" recommend nor endorse use on TT's" but somehow they sell thousands of these to AS for Classics despite it being the wrong tire that won't ever be covered by Michelin as to warranty? Hmmmm.....

The fact that you don't want to spend $2.3k or so for 16" nicer-looking (or just different) wheels and "better" tires (IMHO) is your choice, but that doesn't mean that you sticking with 15" wheels and GY Endurance STs is the "correct" or "better" choice.

This is just another example of why we see page after page after page on here of upgrades from OEM Airstream "features" and parts. The same holds true for SOB trailers, cars and many other items all across the spectrum of commerce.

YMMV.

[richard5933]

Guess the question I have is when push comes to shove and there is a warranty claim for a Michelin installed on an Airstream as OEM, who covers it? Michelin or Airstream?

So far all we know is that some are reporting Airstream installs Michelin on some trailers. The details of how this works and why it's done have not been mentioned, but seem pretty important to me.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by 2012FB

Don’t need to call Michelin or a dealer because Michelin LTs come standard on Airstream travel trailers. To be clear I’ll ask again. Do you think Airstream puts Michelin LT tires on their trailers without researching the application, use and getting approval from Michelin to do so? Why would Airstream go to the trouble and added expense of doing so if the ST is actually a better tire? I have a $130k investment in my Airstream trailer. Quality tires for an extra couple thousand dollars is worth it to me. No fear of blow outs, trailer damage, trying to change out a tire on the side of a busy highway or having to travel further down the the road to just get off a narrow two lane or waiting for hours/day because the one blowout took both tires out. I never think about my 16” Michelin XPS RIB tires and I don’t run TPMS.

I am sure AS has researched as they have with all their decisions, right? Lets see...Interstate batteries, single stage converters, shower door hinges snapping, latches coming loose due to wrong length screws, cabinets coming loose from frame, delaminated cabinets on new GT models, Goodyear Marathons, etc...

Again, Michelin makes a fine tire no doubt; just not one rated for Travel Trailers like an AS. But...so does Goodyear with the 15" Endurance ST, "made for trailer applications"; does Michelin endorse using the LT on trailers?? Show me the written endorsment from Michelin.

To be clear, this article helps understand the difference...again, not saying Michelins LT for trailer use are a bad choice...but good to understand the differences of ST vs LT when talking trailer application.
https://www.rvandplaya.com/lt-vs-st-...ravel-trailer/