Carlisle Tires

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by DKDarrow

Frankly I dont know what to do. I thought that the E's would give me that extra bit of insurance...

hi dennis...

it's a complicated decision process, and especially IF you've been bitten by a bad tire or 2...

i've seem many tire dealers/market insiders comments on going UP to a higher load rating...

customers think that more is better, but the insiders suggest otherwise,

even as they SELL the customer whatever they want...

unless the trailer is pushing the weight ratings 2 the next level (yours doesn't) there is NO good reason to select e rated tires...

the e rated tires have more rubber and are 1-3 lbs heavier per tire...

they do generate more heat, hold more heat and so on during travel...

the heat issue is made worse by running them at LESS than the rated psi, even IF the pressure is 'load appropriate' ...

regardless of brand (i'm fine with the gyms) they all suggest sticking with d rated tires and running them at 65 psi.

sometime more of something isn't better, it's just more.

again IF the trailer is primarily PARKED...

heat, weight and vibration are irrelevant, so an e rated tire inflated to 80 psi has no downside in that setting...

cheers
2air'

[Beginner]

So here is a suggestion that will remain useful no matter what you decide to do.
Since the tire failures are progressive not an explosion, get a good Tire Pressure Monitering System (TPMS).
Even if you stay with the ST tires you will be able to detect a failing tire long before it starts to come apart and beat up your trailer (in most cases).
If you stay with the ST tires you will be forewarned of problems.
If you go later on with a better tire they will cover you in case you hit something (board, piece of car, licence plate etc) on the road.
Beginner

[Easyriser]

Dennis,

It is hard to find a tire that is not made in China. Also I think if you dig deep enough you will find Carlisle Tire is actually owned by Goodyear. I just went with Marathons and keeping my fingers crossed.

Good luck,
Stan

[jcanavera]

Originally Posted by DKDarrow

Frankly I dont know what to do. I thought that the E's would give me that extra bit of insurance; but several folks that I know and respect their advice say to go with the D's. All I really want is to PREVENT a blow out.

Brand perhaps doesnt matter, purchase the grade of tire based upon weight rather than insurance of a stronger tire, run a high PSI (60), and replace every 3 years no matter what the mileage. Would this philosophy be the way to avoid blowouts?

So, what to do?...........thanks for your time and help......Dennis

Just to be on record, the only reason I have gone to E's is the amount of weight on my tires. The 30' Slide Out is the heaviest trailer that Airstream builds on tandem axles. I'm pretty sure we carry more weight per tire than a 34' unit over it's 3 axles.

If I didn't have this weight situation, I would have stayed with a D rating. Personally I would rather run a D at it's max cold inflation level of 65psi, than run an E, 15psi below it's max. As 2air noted that E will probably run hotter and heat is a tire killer.

Bottom line, you need to deal with a manufacturer with a good track record (hard to figure though), keep check on inflation and don't overload, keep check on wheel balance, look out for road hazzards and potholes, drive within the rated speed limitations of the tire, limit sun exposure when parked or stored, and replace the tires well before the tread indicates the need.

I don't have a TPMS, but I am going to seriously consider that in the future.

Jack

[RivetED]

All four of the original Marathon's that came with my 25' Safari failed (belt slipped) before three years or 25K miles. Since I'm very diligent (there are other adjectives for my astute observation skills) I've been able to catch each of them in time to have Goodyear replace them under warranty. Of course all of the replacements are Goodyear.

Last year I got a sidewall flat and the Goodyear dealer in Nowhere Maine only had a Chinese tire with the same tread pattern. I had them put it on the spare and am still on 4 Marathons. ($90.- for Chinese knock-off) My previous SOB had Carlisle's and the manufacturer paid for them to be replaced with Marathon's on a safety recall. (All 8 Airstream and 4 SOB tires = Load Range 'D')

POINT: I'm not sure any one brand is better than any other and only constant diligence will save you for now. I use feel, observation, and a digital IR temp. gauge (Radio Shack <$50.-) on hubs, wheels, and tires at almost every stop. My neighbor just returned from a trip to Houston with only 5 of the 6 tires he left with (34' Classic LTD), lots of damage and a hole in the belly pan.

IMHO: Go with the 'D' of your choice/price, inflate to 65 psi, and keep an eye on them. I'm not sure if there is any 'Silver-Bullet' for tires, a very common concern & subject.

[DKDarrow]

You guys give some really good thoughts and information......Most of all the honesty and lack of horn blowing is really appreciated.......Am going with the D's, inflate correctly, get that IR heat guage I have been putting off, check my lug nuts regularly, and stay at my best fuel consumption speed of 62.......

thank YOU all again, and please God, bless us in our travels...........Dennis

[TBRich]

I also appreciate the honest feed back and advice on this thread... I have been called "paranoid" about tire failure, and I admit that it's true...the biggest reason being that we have a single-axle trailer and I do not relish the idea of dealing with a blow out or flat on the side of a busy highway. I do think Marathons have gotten a bad reputation simply because most of the Airstreams out there have Marathons, so of course we hear about those failures most often... I am convinced that it's poor tire maintenance that causes the most problems with tires, no matter what the brand—understanding that the majority of tire failures are due to a slow leak worsening—creating a heat issue—to the point of no return and total failure.

So we are doing what we can to reduce the risk of failure...we now use Pressure-Pros (which I also admit has reduced my "tire-anxiety" tremendously)...we keep the tires properly inflated, we torque the lugs before every trip, and we keep a general eye out for potential problems... I do understand that all this will not keep tire failure from happening, but it will sure help, and it will give us time to get the heck off the road if a problem is developing and we find ourselves throwing rubber and ripping aluminum.

By the way, check your spare when you check the pressure in the other tires...I have not been doing this routinely until our last trip because it was a pain to get out from under the Bambi... When I checked it I was shocked to find that the spare was down to 40 lbs! Yikes! The spare is no good to me if it isn't inflated properly! (It's much less of a pain to get the spare out and check it, than it is to have a flat spare.)

[DKDarrow]

After a lot of thought, research here, talking with 8 different tire dealers and their techs, I went ahead yesterday and got the Carlisle "D"s. Yes, I plan to be vigilant as to pressure and replacement dates. When I can, will get a monitor system for the tires; but different places for that money right now.

No real difference in towing etc; but a bit higher mileage by a mile or two.............Don't know if it's the trailer tires or the Michelins that I put on my 250 just a couple of days previously. We traveled over from Destin to here in Jacksonville yesterday and HERE IS THE QUESTION.....................

To a hand test at each stop perhaps every 100 or so miles yesterday, to a hand touch heat test it would seem that the front trailer tires were both a bit warmer than the rear ones.........Thoughts here would be appreciated as to the whys...........Thanks............Dennis

[richinny]

is the trailer level?
have you weighed the axles?

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by DKDarrow

... hand test at each stop perhaps every 100 or so miles yesterday, to a hand touch heat test it would seem that the front trailer tires were both a bit warmer than the rear ones...

hi dk

from one regular user (who is no tire expert either) to another...

and having carried and used an infrared surface thermometer...

i can report that temps might be all over the place...

based on 'sunny side' alone the difference is often 20+ degrees.

i collected LOTS of tire temp data...

and the only consistents were the tv tires run a tad warmer than the trailer and the sunny side is MUCH warmer, even parked.

we all have different temp perception so how 'much' warmer is an issue,

3-5 degrees or 10-15 or >20 degrees might alter the whys and urgency 2 sort it out...

but, IF both fronts on the trailer are consistently warmer, here are some potential issues...

-bearing grease condition and amount of play or degree of tightness in the hubs...

-brake status, shoe drag or braking force, which may warm the fronts more under normal conditons...

-so measuring hub temps my add useful info, and with varied braking force...

-axle load, and the only real way to know this is to weigh EACH contact point...

-IF the ft axle is carrying 200lbs more than the rr that's enough 2 cause more heat, depending on how close to the rating that is...

-alignment and balance issues...

-if any of the hubs/wheels/tires or axles are out of balance or alignment this could cause greater tire heat, before wear issues are obvious

-the easiest issue to check is just how level the trailer is while towing, and often the 'low end' will result in warmer tires...

i'm sure there are other potential issues but these are the biggies...

cheers
2air'

[slowmover]

and the only consistents were the tv tires run a tad warmer than the trailer and the sunny side is MUCH warmer, even parked.

My experience also. The TV is nearly always 5-7F degrees hotter on a summer day; same for being parked, the sunny side is consistently higher, sooner. Trailer tires are run at (recommended) max pressure; truck at factory spec. The 100F days see temps of 120F-plus after braking easily, slowly from 63 mph.

My rear axle (tandem) carries more weight, but the temp variance is under 5-7F degrees.

My alignment was corrected before new tires were installed, and new bearings/races were also done (big truck tire/alignment shop). Brakes have checked out OK, but still need to perfect the data/information collection to be dead certain.

A shirt-pocket IR thermometer (got mine at GRAINGER) is a real boon to checking after leaving highway. I keep it on me while traveling, also checking other temps to look for what may be inconsistencies on items other than tires.

[DKDarrow]

Thanks for the thoughts guys.................

First thing I am gonna do is get an IR thermometer........will check the bearing temps, hub temps, and tire temps for comparison

We will be heading home next week, empty the trailer, and then check properly the axle weight distrubution. I have read of this on several other threads; but will probably be asking for your help and advice when that time comes.

The trailer does not ride level...............It is perhaps an inch or so lower on the front end............The TV is fine.......Have tried to adjust the trailer height by putting more chain links on the weight distrubtion system; but it doesnt really change anything............Hmmmmmm
that would cause the front tires to have more pressure on them and then the subsequent heat.............Perhaps I need to adjust the heighth of the ball in the reciever????? Raise it up a hole?????

I had the tires balanced upon installation.........

While here in Jacksonville before going towards home next week I dont see I can do much or can I???? I guess I could pull the reciever and make that change on the holes and get an IR thermometer to monitor the situation while towing it maybe 400 miles home in the summer heat.......................Thanks so much for the thoughts.......Dennis

[davidz71]

Originally Posted by DKDarrow

First thing I am gonna do is get an IR thermometer........will check the bearing temps, hub temps, and tire temps for comparison

The trailer does not ride level...............It is perhaps an inch or so lower on the front end............The TV is fine.......Have tried to adjust the trailer height by putting more chain links on the weight distrubtion system; but it doesnt really change anything............Hmmmmmm
that would cause the front tires to have more pressure on them and then the subsequent heat.............Perhaps I need to adjust the heighth of the ball in the reciever????? Raise it up a hole?????

Dennis

After replacing 3 brake assemblies, replacing one inside bearing and repacking the bearings on those 3 axles, I noticed that all 3 registered 77 degrees after a 12 mile test run but the other axle (new bearings/brake assembly last Oct.) was registering 97 degrees. I pulled that drum and found not much grease in the inner bearing and a tight bearing clearance at that. I cleaned out the bearing, repacked it and put everything back together. I found that the castle nut snugged up by hand like had been done by a shop was a little too tight but if I backed off one flat of the nut then it approximated the slight clearance of the other 3 axles. I attribute the lack of grease and tight clearance to the 20 degree difference noted above. I would have never noticed this without the IR thermometer.

By the way, my '86 Sovereign with Hensley Arrow hitch rides just a little low in the front. If I went to a 6" drop stinger (drawbar) then it would ride low in the rear. Go figure. It sure would be nice if Hensley would design a stinger you could adjust rather than selecting available stingers.

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by DKDarrow

...While here in Jacksonville before going towards home next week I dont see I can do much or can I????...

yeah i'm always careful about modifications made while on the road...

still an ir therm is easy to purchase and if the temp difference isn't much...

waiting till at the home base only 400 miles away (to tweak the rig) isn't a big deal.

btw the ir therm i carry is part of a multimeter purchased at sears...

i think it is a fluke made gadget branded craftsman...

having the dc/ac testing gadget and the thermometer in ONE tool has worked well.

so IF u are low 1 inch in the front, thats is certainly enough to alter the axle loads and tire temps....

adjusting the stinger/hitch ball would be the starting point, as i understand it.

hey davidz71...

i HAD the same issue with the haha, too high with a 4, n too low with a 6...

the solution i reached (since they don't offer an adjustable stinger) was to ADD on leaf to the truck...

NOW a 6 fits PERFECTLY...

another option would be to add a spacer to the rear spring stack to raise the truck 1 inch.

this is moving away from dk's thread topic, but i'll be posting this info in more detail elsewhere soon...

cheers
2air'

[davidz71]

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

hey davidz71...

i HAD the same issue with the haha, too high with a 4, n too low with a 6...

the solution i reached (since they don't offer an adjustable stinger) was to ADD on leaf to the truck...

NOW a 6 fits PERFECTLY...

another option would be to add a spacer to the rear spring stack to raise the truck 1 inch.

cheers
2air'

Thanks 2air, That's an idea.

[DKDarrow]

2Air............Thanks for the thoughts and really excellent advice. I ALWAYS find your replies patient, right on, well thought out, and never in a manner that puts you in the "I know best" category.

As soon as I finish writing this am gonna go on line to find a IR here in Jville........Then after the fish over at the jetty quit biting this morning to go and get it...............

Currently have 2 mmeters so unless the one I find is a hum dinger deal will just try to find a stand alone.................

This thread has come a long way from tire selection; but I really thank ALL for their thoughts, concern, compassion, and patience............God Bless.........Dennis

[bryanl]

we all have different temp perception so how 'much' warmer is an issue

This is a problem with many measures, I think. Folks don't know what precision is appropriate or how to interpret what they are measuring.

If I recall correctly, tire temperatures are not a worry until they get to 160F (maybe higher by 20F to 40F). In use, the temperatures should run between 110F to 140F or so. One key is to look for differences. If you can't easily explain a significant difference (e.g. sun exposure) then you need to figure out what is going on.

I don't think the tire temperature should be much influenced by hub or brake temperatures. I had a broken brake spring raise the hub temperature by 30F over the others but the tire still ran at 120F. I'd guess what and how you measure is also a factor.

What I am trying to figure out now is the difference between the bias ply Carlisle and the radial Towmasters. It appears the Towmasters are a bit smaller for the same numbers. Ride seems about the same. I haven't checked running temperatures yet.

[dpandorf]

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

i HAD the same issue with the haha, too high with a 4, n too low with a 6...

the solution i reached (since they don't offer an adjustable stinger) was to ADD on leaf to the truck...

NOW a 6 fits PERFECTLY...

another option would be to add a spacer to the rear spring stack to raise the truck 1 inch.

this is moving away from dk's thread topic, but i'll be posting this info in more detail elsewhere soon...

cheers
2air'

Will be interested to read your detailed description on the stinger height. I have the 2" stinger and it's too high and I'm like you need something btwn 4" and 6". It is a real pain mailing a heavy piece of metal back and forth to Hensley if I can't get it right.

[handn]

I have had horrible luck with D rated tires on my 25 Safari. During a recent trip from Tucson to Miami, I had two blowouts one on a Marathon less than two months old and one on a no name less than a year old. I inflate to 65 lbs, empty my holding tanks before every travel day and drive 65 mph or less. It was admittedly hotter than hell. The year before one of the Marathons (made in Canada) that came on my 2004
Safari blew up in Navajo land. I am lucky I guess, three blowouts no body damage.
Marathons are made in China and no better than the no name tires sold at every flybynight tire store at most every exit on the interstate down South.
I upgraded to E rated tires Carlises on one side and Maxxis on the other (I purchased them at different places after seperate blowouts. 1500 miles with no tire trouble--my fingers are crossed.
If you run at at 80 pounds there is no downside to E rated tires. Ride and handling are the same. More air pressure equals less flex. Less flex equals less heat. Stronger construction means more resistance to blowouts.
Take it from me, your D rated tires will fail in hot weather running for a few days on the interstate even if you do everything right. It remains to be seen how my E rated tires will do, but so far so good.
P.S. The bean counters at Airstream should get the message. On a premium travel trailer frequent blowouts are unacceptable. Airstream should spec tires which are safe and durable even if they cost a few dollars more.

[surfnturf]

I have run flatbed trailers to and from Vermont and Oklahoma from 24000 lbs down to 2500 lbs for the last 30 plus years and Michelins are the only tires that I have had no probs with. Maybe I am just lucky but I have worn out 4 trucks and 3 trailers and after many days on the side of the road I learned my lesson and will not run any other tire but a Michelin.