15" to 16" Wheels/Tires on 2007 Safari

[boondockdad]

these look like what I have now, but in 16"

Aluminum Trailer Wheel Style: SERIES #04 Size: 16 x 7 Bolt Pattern: 6 x 5.5 Bore Size: 4.25 Load Rating: 3200 lbs @ 85 PSI Offset: +5mm Hispec

although, there's a +5mm offset...

[Gene]

I've been talking to a lot of people to get more information on the tire and wheel questions.

I had a long conversation with a guy who appeared to be quite knowledgeable at Michelin. First, using a LR E tire to replace a LR D tire on my trailer requires 75 psi to have an equivalent weight rating. Anything less is underinflated.

I asked about whether the Michelin 16" RBS Rib or the LTX would be the better tire to replace the 15" ST tire. He said the RBS has a firmer sidewall and would not provide as smooth a ride as the LTX and thus the LTX would be better for towing. The RBS would have less sway, but if sway isn't a problem, the LTX should be ok.

We discussed at length the differences between ST sidewalls and LTX sidewalls and whether that would be a problem. He did not believe so. We went back and forth on this issue at length.

I spoke with Jim Parrott at Airstream. He gives technical advice. I asked whether the increased weight of a 16" wheel and tire would cause too much added stress on the bearings, seals and spindles. He did not think so.

He confirmed the offset on a wheel should be 0˚. I didn't discuss this with him, but if the offset is either positive or negative, I would think that would create a lot of stress on the running gear as the weight of the wheel and tire is not properly distributed on the hub (brake drum).

If you are looking for new wheels the specs for the 15" wheels on mine are 7" width, 6 bolt, 5 1/2" apart, 4.28 bore.

Make sure a 16" tire fits in the tire carrier—I haven't checked mine yet, but I could throw (maybe push) it in the pickup bed.

Gene

[2airishuman]

technical advice?

my understanding is jp oversees WARRANTY issues, approvals and denials.

and is a source for the 'oxygen' causes corrosion theory, while denying claims on this issue.

but everyone who works at the service center gives technical advice...

some of which is categorically, factually and 'officially' incorrect.
__________________

still it's good to read u r exploring some of the known/unknown issues and fit variables...
__________________

the axles/hubs/spindles/bearing and brakes come from dexter.

contact dexter to explore IF or how the warranty (and durability) may be affected

by an alternate or LARGER heavier tire/wheel combo, since ULTIMATELY a/s will go to the parts/vendor for many issues.

so the question to ask jp is this...

"if a trailer still UNDER WARRANTY experiences a failure of ANY COMPONENT, including but not limited to the running gear...

AND frame/shell/skin/entry door/rivets/windows/plumbing and so on...

will a/s COVER that warranty claim IF THE TIRE/WHEEL package is NOT oem size/spec/rating ???"

ask jp THAT and post the OFFICIAL reply...

cheers
2air'

[Gene]

Jim Parrett (proper speeling of his name) answers the technical line, thereby representing Airstream, and so far as warranty goes, that puts Airstream on the line. He is contacting Dexter about the running gear and added weight and will get back to me. Interesting that no one there has done that.

All things being equal (and they never are) a 16" wheel and tire would weigh 1/15 or 6.67% more than a 15" wheel and tire and I think a bearing, seal, spindle and hub should be able to handle a lot more added weight than that. We'll see what Dexter says.

I ended up explaining things about tires to him. They have a 16" wheel with the Goodyear Wrangler HT (heavy truck?) mounted on display there now. I suggested the HT tire is too firm for an Airstream; seems like that was a new idea too. I suggested a LT truck tire would provide a better ride for the trailer.

I looked at the tire carrier and it appears a 15" fits snugly, so a 16" would only fit if it were flat. If you have a compressor and no place to store a 16", I suppose that would be an option.

What the warranty covers and does not is an interesting question. I have read it and am unimpressed with the quality of the legal work. To me this is a good thing because it leaves lots of room for interpretation. Some clauses appear contradictory. Some of it seems to be an attempt to exclude every component they didn't manufacture (that could include the aluminum skin, the steel frame rails, Romex, etc., in an extreme interpretation), but I think a court would be skeptical about that. Generally you are responsible for what you select and install and have a responsibility to not be negligent in your selections. You have a responsibility to know what you are buying and if it is badly made, that is your problem as well as theirs. I did not receive a warranty from the wheel distributer which means no "limited warranty" and all implied warranties of merchantibility and fitness for the use intended do apply. If you want to learn more about warranties, get your copy of the Uniform Commercial Code out and look it up. I assure you it is a good cure for insomnia. So, if Airstream installs a 16" wheel and tire, they have adopted the baby if it causes problems in my opinion. Same would be true of your local garage or tire dealer. But every state has there own version of this, so it could be different, and depends where you bought it.

So, the saga continues…

Gene

[2airishuman]

hi gene

good guessing,

but i think the HT represents a HIGHWAY TREAD/traction design,

vs all terrain or rugged trail, or off road or some of the other tread/traction designs.

wheels and tires don't go UP in weight that simply.

16s come in a variety of weights based on metal/spokes/width/rating and so on...

same thing with the tires.

and the extra weight isn't static but spinning.

the further out on the perimeter the GREATER the impact of extra mass...

there are formulae for calculating the IMPACT of this mass...

using radius, speed, square roots, constants, exponential increases and so on...

so 10 lbs isn't 10 lbs.

but again exploring the issues is useful...

cheers
2air'

[Rollertoaster]

Sorry about not responding to this thread earlier but we've been
camping and out of contact for the last week. I have been very happy
with the Michelin tires so far, with no problems to report in about 6,000 miles. I have been inflating them to 50 psi, and the temps even on the hottest days seem about the same as the 275/55/20 Michelin M/S tires on my truck. The trailer tracks perfectly,and if anything, rides a bit smoother
judging by the arrangement of the interior contents.
I agree that much of the info out there is anecdotal, and
the "internet effect" tends to exaggerate the extreme positions on a lot of issues. But there are trends, and I guess I responded to some of the
Marathon horror stories as if they meant something. In any case, I think
an E rated LT tire on a 25' Airstream is seeing light duty. No power
transmission or steering forces that you might see, for example, on an
8,000 lb HD pickup with job boxes towing a trailer. As for the offset issue,
its only 8 mm, and the forces are being transmitted to the same
plane on the hub, albeit with a very small change in load. One of
the things that I noticed is the sidewall deflection seems more
pronounced on the Michelins than it did on the GYMs, and there appears to be zero tread wear.

Terry

[boondockdad]

Michelin has promotion going on right now... got a great price on AT2's/Discount Tire

Fall Savings: Michelin Tires

[Gene]

I called Dexter today and asked about the effect of changing from a 15" to a 16" wheel and tire. I was connected with a "engineer". The term "engineer" gets thrown around a lot and could mean professional engineer, engineering school graduate, or desk engineer. Regardless, he said the weight difference is not so much as to affect the axles, brakes, bearings or anything else. Everything appears to be overengineered. He did not condition his statement to certain Airstreams—after all, some come close to the maximum weight for the running gear and some don't.

I asked him whether he thought changing from an ST tire to an LT tire would have any adverse effects. He said no and some LT tires could be higher quality than some ST tires. Since he knew I have a recent model Airstream, could he have been referring to Marathons? I didn't try to pin him to the wall on that, but I did have an impression that's what he meant. When I said Airstream is buying cheap wheels where the coating peals off, he did not dispute that, but I could be reading more into it than was there.

Jim Parrett was supposed to let me know what Dexter thought about the conversion, but I haven't heard from him, so I called Dexter. This is the 2nd time I've called Dexter and they answer right away (can't say that about Airstream) and are very helpful.

I have priced wheels from Discount Tire—they have Unique wheels in 3 chrome patterns and some steel ones. The chrome ones are $88. The specific chrome wheel for our trailer is not on the Discount Tire website. Dexterguy told me Unique is owned by Carlisle and he thought Carlisle is a respectable company. Dexter used to sell or make wheels (not sure what he said), but sold the company 5 years ago. It's now called Americana Tire and Wheel. It has no internet presence, but does have some stores.

I was quoted $179 for a Michelin 225/75R16 LTX. There a rebate until 11/15 of $70—I think it's for 4 wheels. For 5 wheels and tires plus sales tax that comes to about $1,353. Ouch!

But with 5 identical wheels I can rotate the spare in periodically. Now I have a spare on a steel wheel and it looks crappy on the trailer. I like the looks of the Unique wheels better and they look a lot easier to clean.

The preliminary answer from Airstream on warranty coverage for the wheels because of the coating was it wouldn't be covered; I am disputing that, but I don't have a lot of hope.

2air, you may be right about HT meaning Highway Tread. That is the kind of tread they have and so the Michelin RBS Rib. Of course, Hot to Trot is another possibility, but I think that's a kind of horseshoe.

Gene

[Gene]

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

hi gene

good guessing,

but i think the HT represents a HIGHWAY TREAD/traction design,

vs all terrain or rugged trail, or off road or some of the other tread/traction designs.

Epiphany is an overstatement, but a light bulb moment perhaps. Goodyear calls this an all season tire, not a highway tire. So, I think HT means "heavy truck" compared with "light truck". The exact description is "An All-Season Tire for Heavy-Duty Trucks and Full-Sized Vans". Goodyear certainly likes dashes.

I think there are several designations: highway, all season, mud & snow among others. Rugged Trail is a brand name used by Goodrich. All terrain and off road are advertising descriptions.

Gene

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by CrawfordGene

a light bulb moment perhaps.

Goodyear calls this an all season tire, not a highway tire. So, I think HT means "heavy truck" compared with "light truck"...

perhaps you've mixed up the models or i'm confused about WHICH round black rubber thing is the reference...

but from the info i c on the gy websites...

"OUR QUIETEST ALL-WEATHER TOURING WRANGLER"

and available in C through E load ranges.

from the TR site...

...Developed for use on new cars and light trucks, these tires provide a versatile blend of ride quality, noise comfort, treadwear, handling and year-round traction, even in light snow.

NOT that the application is the same, but this tires appears to have been used on honda, rovers, F350s and a lot of other stuff...

it isn't WELL rated in those applications and weights 40-50 lbs PER depending on 16 size.

Consumer Survey Results By Category

scan the list above and note MANY other 2-3 LETTER models of WRANGERS...

so the T may be touring, tempting, tepid, terrific, terrible...

or perhaps HT is happy tire

wrangle that!
_____________________

now, MUCH of this confusion MAY derive from the fact that GY lists this tire (or is 2 tires with same name?) IN 2 PLACES...

http://www.goodyear.com/rv/products/index.html

and here...

http://www.goodyeartires.com/goodyea...ea=Light+Truck

since A/S is a trayla company perhaps they are using info from the FIRST LINK (rv tires)...

and since you gene are a honorary trailerite with a honkin' truck, u r using the 2nd link (trucksntuff)

imo this JUST reinforces the previous commentary (up this thread a bit) that anyone opting for 16s, LT, P or other nonST tires...

needs to tread carefully into the world of ratings, specs, names, sizes, and so on...

FOR EXAMPLE look at the recommended INFLATION tables in BOTH links, very different yes/no/maybe?

cheers
2air'

[Gene]

2air,

I like Happy Tire, sort of like happy feet.

I was trying to figure out what the HT means. I accessed the Goodyear by brand and size on their website and got the info that made it sound like a heavy truck tire. However, I did look on the Tire Rack website (there's a lot of info about tires there) and found not the consumer survey ratings page you linked above, but the actual comments. There I saw the HT is or was OEM equipment on a Honda Element. So maybe it stands for Honda Tire. The comments were all over the place, as is usual on these things, but a lot of them were very negative. Tire Rack does not have ratings or comments for ST tires. To add to the confusion Goodyear has a tire called a Wrangler ST; it's rated 58th out of 69. I have no idea what it is, but I don't think it's a trailer tire.

Consumer surveys like these are only rough indicators since they are self reporting and angry people are the most likely to post. Therefore, popular tires are more likely to get negative reports. Nonetheless, it's what we got. The Goodyear Wrangler HT ties for 48th. The Michelin LTX M&S ties for 6th and is the 2nd most popular tire so it's likely to have attracted more angry people. So even if fairly inaccurate, people who use the Michelin like it better than those who use the Goodyear. What's the most popular LT tire according to this? Goodyear Wrangler RT/S, tied for 48th, so maybe it stands for Rotten Tire/Sucker. Tire Rack totals "miles reported" for each tire—I take that as a rough measure of popularity.

Gene

[Bluto]

Originally Posted by Al - K4GLU

Since Airstream is now offering optional 16" wheels with LT tires - Good Year Wranglers - I suspect they're probably usable on most if not all trailers that come with 15" wheels. But the best source of info on that is to give Airstream a call.

Who is the person to call at the plant to ask about this option? I would like to call JC on Monday as my trailer is on order. My dealer did not list this as an option for the 2010 Classic, so apparently he does not know about it.

[Tallytown]

I am interested in purchasing 2 of someone's 15" Airstream wheels. I have a triple axle Excella, and have acquired 4 wheels off of an '05 International. If you have two (or three, if I decide to outfit the spare) you want to sell, please e-mail me at tommysuter@gmail.com with a price.

Thanks.

[UAPachyderm]

Originally Posted by Tallytown

I am interested in purchasing 2 of someone's 15" Airstream wheels. I have a triple axle Excella, and have acquired 4 wheels off of an '05 International. If you have two (or three, if I decide to outfit the spare) you want to sell, please e-mail me at tommysuter@gmail.com with a price.

Thanks.

Tallytown, you acquired 4 off my 2004 International. Let me know if someone beats my price and I'll match it. ;-)

I don't have the specs, but this picture by another poster shows the style of wheel. I hope someone will help you out with the other two or three.