RV News RVBusiness 2021 Top 10 RVs of the Year, plus 56 additional debuts and must-see units → ×
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-26-2006, 12:02 PM   #21
Rivet Master
 
overlander63's Avatar
 
1993 21' Sovereign
Colfax , North Carolina
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,254
The frame "hole punching" was a weight-saving measure in the mid to late 1970's, with usually less than desirable results. It was one of the reasons coaches of that era have the rear end sag issues. Remember, this was around the time of the first gas crisis, and Airstream was trying to make their coaches towable by as many vehicles as possible.
__________________
Terry
overlander63 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2006, 12:11 PM   #22
Silver Mist
 
LI Pets's Avatar
 
1977 31' Sovereign
Riverhead , New York
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,008
Images: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by overlander63
The frame "hole punching" was a weight-saving measure in the mid to late 1970's, with usually less than desirable results. It was one of the reasons coaches of that era have the rear end sag issues.
Why do you say that?

If the holes were engineered correctly the overall strength is unaffected I would think.
__________________
Bob
'77 Sovereign Intl 31' CB
WBCCI R2 Rep VAC 11411 Metro NY VP

LI Pets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2006, 12:12 PM   #23
Tom, the Uber Disney Fan
 
Minnie's Mate's Avatar
 
2006 30' Safari
Orlando , Florida
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,693
Images: 7
The issue with rear end sag was more of an issue with reduction in frame member size/depth than hole punching would have created. Yes, the hole puching does reduce weight, but as an architect, one thing I do know is that the strength of a beam is relative to the distance between the flanges not the amount of material in the web member itself. The web stabilizes and stiffens the flanges and keeps them parallel, but doesn't add a lot to the strength of the beam. Think parallel cord floor trusses. These are the flat "W" trusses used to support long span floors like in malls and flat roofs in warehouses and many other buildings. There is relatively little metal material between the flanges compared to the depth of the floor truss, yet they suppport a tremendous amount of load compared to their own weight.

However, when you decrease the distance between the flanges, you significantly decrease the beam's structural strength. This is what happened when Airstream reduced the depth of the frame members. Each was a small beam that supported the contents of the trailer above. IIRC, Airstream reduced this depth by 20-25%. This is what led to rear sag. Yes, I know part of the support of the floor was suspended by the monocoque design of the Airstream, but this whole assembly sits on the frame.

And yes, as long as the holes are properly spaced and not too large in diameter for the depth of the web, the strength would not be affected.
__________________
2006 30' Safari - "Changes in Latitudes"
2008 F-250 Lariat Power Stroke Diesel Crew Cab SWB
Family of Disney Fanatics
WBCCI# 4821
https://streaminacrossamerica.com/
Minnie's Mate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2006, 12:15 PM   #24
Silver Mist
 
LI Pets's Avatar
 
1977 31' Sovereign
Riverhead , New York
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,008
Images: 28
You took the words right out of my mouth
__________________
Bob
'77 Sovereign Intl 31' CB
WBCCI R2 Rep VAC 11411 Metro NY VP

LI Pets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2006, 02:47 PM   #25
Moderator dude
 
Action's Avatar

 
1966 26' Overlander
Phoenix , Arizona
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,759
Images: 13
The hole punching is done for weight savings. (So was the support spacing, with not so good results) And I would guess the hole punching only amounts to something like less than 100 #'s at best. Much less than 1 BD. And over many many miles, the savings adds up to lots.

Wouldn't you rather tow 2995 pounds or would 3095 be better. Getting all that weight moving each time one accelerates and then stopping all of it takes some energy. Over a weekend, it makes little to no difference. Over the life of the trailer/tow vehicle it adds up.

Why else would Airstream punch out the holes? (BTW in the automotive arena, design engineers get really excited with saving ounces for the same reasons. For in a daily driver the weight is spread out over many many more miles or use cycles.)

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action
__________________
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4 DR Breezeway 410 4V, C-6, 2.80 - Streamless.
1966 Lincoln 4 door Convertible 462 4V 1971 Ford LTD Convertible 429 4V Phoenix ~ Yeah it's hot however it's a dry heat!
Action is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2006, 03:30 PM   #26
Rivet Master
 
2005 30' Classic
... , ...
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 512
Images: 12
One may question the reasoning for which Airstream reduced the weight of the frame by punching holes. . . And for using 5/8ths ply instead of 3/4 in the floors. . . And for using 3/8ths ply in cabinets instead of 1/2 . . .

Depending on what you are examining or working on, it may appear that Airstream took the "less-than-logical" way out.

Once you've rebuilt one of these from the ground up, you realize that a little weight savings here and a little there will add up to a lot overall! This is one reason Airstreams are popular! Take the Bambi for example: they are hot on the market in part because they are light weight and can be towed with mid-sized SUV's. Which means a family can have and tow a tt without the need of owning another vehicle that would not be used otherwise.

Calvin
GetOutDoors is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2006, 03:47 PM   #27
3 Rivet Member
 
1976 26' Argosy 26
St. Albert , Alberta
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 136
Hear hear

The reason my TV is a Diesel Ram is that my "lightweight" fiberglass Boler killed our original family van, a '95 Windstar, and went to work on the transmission of the replacement vehicle, a '99 Infiniti QX4.

The Boler was supposed to be 3000# empty, but we didn't know better and loaded it up fully until it was probably over 5000#. We lightened up a little after the initial wrecking of the Windstar, and went to a weighstation and we were at 4300#. Still, on that trip through the Rockies, fully loaded semi's were passing us on the uphill in the QX4. Which is why we finally got Big Blue.

What made up the weight? All the house extras went into the Boler, including a full set of silverware (eight person setting), all our extra pots and pans (including the heavy cast iron ones), a spare microwave (heavy duty one), firewood, two buckets of tools, full water tank, extra bedding, extra mattresses for comfort, a pile of extra dishes, portable chairs, outdoor games including a heavy bocce ball set, and books & magazines of all types, and kid's toys, and a portable TV that we never used...ouch...we learned that the TT is not a cabin. Maybe we should see it more as a backpack...keep it light!

Cheers!
Chopper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2006, 05:16 PM   #28
Rivet Master
 
bhayden's Avatar
 
1978 24' Argosy 24
Woodinville , Washington
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 682
Images: 10
Wouldn't this make the trailer heavy on one side?

bhayden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2006, 05:38 PM   #29
Moderator dude
 
Action's Avatar

 
1966 26' Overlander
Phoenix , Arizona
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,759
Images: 13
One thing you all have discovered, RV's gain weight with age!

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action
__________________
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4 DR Breezeway 410 4V, C-6, 2.80 - Streamless.
1966 Lincoln 4 door Convertible 462 4V 1971 Ford LTD Convertible 429 4V Phoenix ~ Yeah it's hot however it's a dry heat!
Action is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2006, 09:51 PM   #30
Rivet Master
 
ROBERTSUNRUS's Avatar

 
2005 25' Safari
Salem , Oregon
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,059
Images: 18
Blog Entries: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Action
One thing you all have discovered, RV's gain weight with age!

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action
Hi, I think that goes for people too. Well, I know I'm up a bit too!

Bob
ROBERTSUNRUS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2006, 09:53 PM   #31
Rivet Master
 
ROBERTSUNRUS's Avatar

 
2005 25' Safari
Salem , Oregon
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,059
Images: 18
Blog Entries: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhayden
Wouldn't this make the trailer heavy on one side?

Hi, only if those are real bricks?

Bob
ROBERTSUNRUS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2006, 10:15 PM   #32
3 Rivet Member
 
1976 26' Argosy 26
St. Albert , Alberta
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 136
Seriously

The weight of all the material I removed from the interior of the Argy (the original cabinets/walls/gaucho) is surprisingly light. I've filled a utility trailer full with the panels and it's a big pile, but not very heavy. In the process of taking the walls apart, I've found out that they are incredibly strong. I now know that the interior skin of the Argy is aluminum so the rivets that hold in the C-channels and upper cabinets make for a strong connection. I'll take these lessons from Airstream during my rebuild, but I fear that my experience more on the house building side will result in a heavier coach.

What's the experience out there by those who have rebuilt? Does the final trailer feel heavier? I see a lot of hardwood floating floor finishes that must weigh a bit, especially in light (no pun intended) of the comments made above about attempts to lighten up the coach with holes and thinner members even.

Cheers!
Chopper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2006, 10:59 PM   #33
Moderator dude
 
Action's Avatar

 
1966 26' Overlander
Phoenix , Arizona
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,759
Images: 13
The original asbestoes tile was not light. Compared to todays flooring it may be a toss up.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action
__________________
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4 DR Breezeway 410 4V, C-6, 2.80 - Streamless.
1966 Lincoln 4 door Convertible 462 4V 1971 Ford LTD Convertible 429 4V Phoenix ~ Yeah it's hot however it's a dry heat!
Action is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2006, 10:21 AM   #34
Tom, the Uber Disney Fan
 
Minnie's Mate's Avatar
 
2006 30' Safari
Orlando , Florida
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,693
Images: 7
Laminate floors and hardwood floors are heavier than the original tile floors and the new sheet vinyl (and real linoleum) and carpets. Unless you get into something really exotic like a rubberized floor, you should be lighter than the VAC tile floors or aforementioned laminates and hardwoods.
__________________
2006 30' Safari - "Changes in Latitudes"
2008 F-250 Lariat Power Stroke Diesel Crew Cab SWB
Family of Disney Fanatics
WBCCI# 4821
https://streaminacrossamerica.com/
Minnie's Mate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2020, 06:34 AM   #35
4 Rivet Member
 
369goose's Avatar
 
2014 25' Flying Cloud
1987 29' Sovereign
1977 31' Sovereign
Tampa Bay , Florida
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 265
Following
369goose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2020, 08:41 AM   #36
Moderator dude
 
Action's Avatar

 
1966 26' Overlander
Phoenix , Arizona
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,759
Images: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by 369goose View Post
Following
Your are following a 4 year old thread.

Good luck

Action
__________________
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4 DR Breezeway 410 4V, C-6, 2.80 - Streamless.
1966 Lincoln 4 door Convertible 462 4V 1971 Ford LTD Convertible 429 4V Phoenix ~ Yeah it's hot however it's a dry heat!
Action is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2020, 10:07 AM   #37
Rivet Master
 
2014 20' Flying Cloud
Long Island , New York
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 14,766
Quote:
Originally Posted by action View Post
your are following a 4 year old thread.

Good luck

action


14

__________________
"Let the Music Lift You Up"

Peter
OTRA15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2020, 04:13 PM   #38
Moderator dude
 
Action's Avatar

 
1966 26' Overlander
Phoenix , Arizona
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,759
Images: 13
I lost the one key. How could that happen?

Action
__________________
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4 DR Breezeway 410 4V, C-6, 2.80 - Streamless.
1966 Lincoln 4 door Convertible 462 4V 1971 Ford LTD Convertible 429 4V Phoenix ~ Yeah it's hot however it's a dry heat!
Action is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2020, 05:13 PM   #39
Slide Out Society #001
 
GCinSC2's Avatar
 
2007 30' Classic S/O
Somewhere , South Carolina
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,153
Action,

You’re keyless. But that beats clueless.

Blame the humidity.

Gary
__________________
S/OS #001
2005 Dodge Ram 2500 5.9L 6 Speed
16" Michelins, Hi Spec Wheels, Max Brake, Carslile Actuator, Equal-i-zer, Dill TPMS. Campfire cook.
GCinSC2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2020, 05:16 PM   #40
Rivet Master
 
jaybauman's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
2019 30' Flying Cloud
Katy , Texas
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 507
Quote:
Originally Posted by Action View Post
I lost the one key. How could that happen?

Action
Inflation? Two is the new one.
__________________
2019 Flying Cloud 30FBB
Bunkhouse is sold...something more "classical" on order!
2020 GMC 3500HD Duramax AT4
ProPride 3P w/ 1400 lb. spring bars
jaybauman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
two tiny orange lights on left front side trailer overlander Lights - Interior & Exterior 25 12-03-2008 08:50 PM
Suggestion: Airstream trailer Forums (by Model & Year) hex Forum Admin, News and Member Account Info 2 10-15-2002 07:38 PM
Trailer lights Dbraw Electrical - Systems, Generators, Batteries & Solar 1 09-13-2002 05:51 PM
Trailer Life RV Campground Finder Pahaska Our Community 12 08-03-2002 09:45 AM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:15 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.