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02-01-2009, 07:49 AM
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#1
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Rivet Master
1967 24' Tradewind
Wickenburg
, Arizona
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 547
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Rubber rods from Axis
I called Axis and they will sell the rubber rods. I am going to try to rebuild my axles. Adios, John
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02-02-2009, 01:11 PM
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#2
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Moderator
Vintage Kin Owner
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, ...
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 11,696
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I say to each their own, and always encourage others to roll up their sleeves and pick up the wrench so to speak. If the intent is to save money it may not be all that advantageous, plus there are other underlying concerns I would take into consideration before proceeding. If you have not read this thread, I would encourage you to do so before jumping in.
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f437...ild-46697.html
By all means if you proceed please photo document your steps and keep us posted.
Best Wishes, and Success.
__________________
"One of the best lessons I've learned is that you don't worry about criticism from people you wouldn't seek advice from."
William C. Swinney
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02-02-2009, 01:54 PM
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#3
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Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
Corona
, California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel1
I called Axis and they will sell the rubber rods. I am going to try to rebuild my axles. Adios, John
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The correct rod diameter must be used, along with the proper composition, so that the softness of the rubber is correct.
The rubber rod length must be correct for a given load rating.
The rods must be deformed in a hydraulic press, and then frozen with liquid nitrogen, to a temperature of about -280 degree F.
Then the rods must be very quickly inserted in the axle tube, along with the axle shaft.
I am not aware of anyone that has equipment for freezing capabilites, to the degree needed, other than a torsion axle manufacturer.
Keep in mind, that the axle shaft is held in place by the rubber rods, only, which requires that the fit must be extremely tight.
But, good luck with your experiment.
Please keep this Forums posted, as to your results.
Andy
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02-02-2009, 02:39 PM
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#4
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Rivet Master
1967 24' Tradewind
Wickenburg
, Arizona
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 547
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If you have not read this thread, I would encourage you to do so before jumping in.
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f437...ild-46697.html
This thread is what gave me the idea. I called Axis and they will sell me the rubber cord. I have already rebuilt the braking system so that cost is done. Shipping axles is costly. My axles are already sagging so if I can't rebuild them I will be out the cost of the rubber cord. My plan is to build a fixture to press with, dissassemble one axle and send one of the cords to axis to duplicate times eight. If on disassembly I don't think I can reinstall the new cords I will stop.
If I were trying to rebuild the cabinets I would not try. A carpenter I ain't!
For me a little sanding and linseed oil is as good as gets. I am however a bit of a metal worker by trade, so I figure what the heck. Worst case I'm out a bit of my "free" labor.
As far as rust, my Airstream appears to be a desert unit, dry as I've noted before as a popcorn fart. Small to no, surface rust here and there. No water damage anywhere except for about 2 inches around the toilet flange. I suspect the insides of the axle tubes to be sound, if not I will abandon the project.
I will report progress good or bad. And not being very tech savvy will attempt pics. Adios, John
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02-02-2009, 03:07 PM
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#5
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Moderator dude
1966 26' Overlander
Phoenix
, Arizona
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,501
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The thread that you have in your post is about a guy that lived in SW Michigan that drove his axles to the Axis plant. They took his axles and removed the old rubber rods and reinstalled the new rods with the machinery that they have at the plant.
Not to discourage you, however Kingman is a long way from Indiana. And Indiana is where the equipment is. Rust or no rust on the axle housing doesn't really make a difference. It is pulling out the rubber (that used to be under extreme pressure) and reinstalling new rubber cord under pressure. The force used has to be enough to support the weight of the trailer and then some. I would guess 5000 pound force.
If you have the equipment to do this, on my way to Vegas I will be bring over two more axles.
>>>>>>>>>>>Action
__________________
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4 DR Breezeway 410 4V, C-6, 2.80 - Streamless.
1966 Lincoln 4 door Convertible 462 4V 1971 Ford LTD Convertible 429 4V Phoenix ~ Yeah it's hot however it's a dry heat!
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02-02-2009, 03:30 PM
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#6
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Rivet Master
1967 24' Tradewind
Wickenburg
, Arizona
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 547
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If you have the equipment to do this, on my way to Vegas I will be bring over two more axles.
>>>>>>>>>>>Action[/quote]
Thus the comment about shipping, I am sure it is to costly to ship the axles . I currently own two busticated axles, the worst I can do is bust them more.
I have frequaintly failed attempting the impossible. I have succeded just enough to keep me trying.
If it works myhaps we will work a deal. I currently labor at a proving ground in beautifull downtown Wittmann.
Adios, john
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02-02-2009, 03:47 PM
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#7
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Moderator dude
1966 26' Overlander
Phoenix
, Arizona
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,501
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Hey Wittmann is way closer! I could drive there any day of the week and I would not go to the gaming capital of the world. The circle track is likely the Pentastar Place.
However, IMHO unless you have some serious equipment there we are thinking in circles.
Good Luck! And do let us know what you find.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action
__________________
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4 DR Breezeway 410 4V, C-6, 2.80 - Streamless.
1966 Lincoln 4 door Convertible 462 4V 1971 Ford LTD Convertible 429 4V Phoenix ~ Yeah it's hot however it's a dry heat!
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02-02-2009, 03:51 PM
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#8
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4 Rivet Member
1961 22' Safari
Union
, Oregon
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 477
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John--
I say GO FOR IT! I have always been one for innovation and the "how on earth am I gonna do that" spirit. Besides, how did they ever make peanut butter cookies before the fork was invented? I don't think it will be impossible, but may not be practical on the individual basis. I am expecting to hear of your success, so keep us informed.
Good Luck.
Sam
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02-02-2009, 03:59 PM
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#9
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Moderator dude
1966 26' Overlander
Phoenix
, Arizona
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,501
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Ouch!!!!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by samb
John--
Besides, how did they ever make peanut butter cookies before the fork was invented?
Sam
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Bad example.
Peanut Butter cookies were recalled for poisoning deaths.
>>>>>>>>>Action
__________________
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4 DR Breezeway 410 4V, C-6, 2.80 - Streamless.
1966 Lincoln 4 door Convertible 462 4V 1971 Ford LTD Convertible 429 4V Phoenix ~ Yeah it's hot however it's a dry heat!
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02-02-2009, 04:01 PM
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#10
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4 Rivet Member
1961 22' Safari
Union
, Oregon
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 477
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Not before the fork was invented!
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02-02-2009, 04:23 PM
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#11
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Rivet Master
1967 24' Tradewind
Wickenburg
, Arizona
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 547
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At the very least I'm getting a good laugh. Thanks, John
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02-02-2009, 05:14 PM
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#12
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Community Organizer
2005 22' Safari
South Chicago
, Illinois
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samb
Not before the fork was invented!
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I think forks were invented before peanut butter cookies.
__________________
Fr. Guido
"We have just religion enough to make us hate, but not enough to make us love one another." Jonathan Swift
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02-02-2009, 05:23 PM
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#13
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Moderator dude
1966 26' Overlander
Phoenix
, Arizona
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,501
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If you have a peanut butter cookie from before the fork was invented you have a different problem! With the same result.
>>>>>>>>>>Action
__________________
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4 DR Breezeway 410 4V, C-6, 2.80 - Streamless.
1966 Lincoln 4 door Convertible 462 4V 1971 Ford LTD Convertible 429 4V Phoenix ~ Yeah it's hot however it's a dry heat!
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03-26-2009, 08:41 AM
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#14
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Rivet Master
1967 24' Tradewind
Wickenburg
, Arizona
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 547
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Well................. After much pondering and soul searching( I have been examining a new axle) I have come to the sad conclusion that the axle rebuild is not feasable. And after reading every thing I can find here about axles I have ordered new ,bare, axles from Andy. A Dexter dealer that I talked with here in Phoenix gave me a guesstimate of about $500 per axle, no shipping costs. Andy is $1195 delivered to Phoenix. I have about 2k miles on the brakes, so did not need new. One of the reasons I wanted the old axles rebuilt is the original starting angle. Somewhere in a old thread Andy said the correct angle for an Airstream of my vintage was around 22 degree's. Per a recent comment by Andy all their new axles start at 37 or 35 degree's. This will raise the trailer ride hieght which I did not want to do. I think one of the reasons the old trailers track so well is the low center of gravity. I will post the actual axle swap on my thread "1967 Tradewind travel traivels." Hopefully complete with pictures, Helen is learning to use her new camera. Adios, John
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03-26-2009, 10:48 AM
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#15
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Moderator
Vintage Kin Owner
...
, ...
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 11,696
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Hey John,
Thanks for the update. Keep us posted on the install.
Regards,
Kevin
__________________
"One of the best lessons I've learned is that you don't worry about criticism from people you wouldn't seek advice from."
William C. Swinney
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03-26-2009, 12:29 PM
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#16
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Rivet Master
1991 34' Excella
Princeton
, New Jersey
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,070
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel1
I called Axis and they will sell me the rubber cord.
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I am really surprised that Axis would offer to sell you the rubber unless you were just talking to a "Salesman" who had no idea of what day it was.
Besides needed liquid Nitrogen you need the press, like a candle mold, that presses the round rubber rods into triangles. It then take about 15 seconds with the press dipped into the nitrogen to freeze the rods into the triangle shape. Once frozen you have about 10 seconds to grab, with gloves on, 4 rubbers place them around the square shaft and slide the combination into the axle tube. This is a one shot deal you miss you lose.
As far as rebuilding axles it is a very easy thing if you have the press and the nitrogen and will become a cost effective method of replacing worn axles as the greater public becomes aware of it. The limiting factor will be the 2 way transportation of the axles.
I could see several regional shops popping to do this as it is clearly something that can not be outsourced to China. In fact it is something that could be done with that axles on the trailer.
The limiting factor would be maintaining a bath of liquid nitrogen.
__________________
WBCCI 12156 AIR 3144 WACHUNG TAC NJ6
2004 Excursion 4x4
1991 34 ft. Excella +220,000 miles, new laminated flooring, new upholstery, new 3200 lbs axles
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03-26-2009, 01:12 PM
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#17
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Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
Corona
, California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HowieE
I am really surprised that Axis would offer to sell you the rubber unless you were just talking to a "Salesman" who had no idea of what day it was.
Besides needed liquid Nitrogen you need the press, like a candle mold, that presses the round rubber rods into triangles. It then take about 15 seconds with the press dipped into the nitrogen to freeze the rods into the triangle shape. Once frozen you have about 10 seconds to grab, with gloves on, 4 rubbers place them around the square shaft and slide the combination into the axle tube. This is a one shot deal you miss you lose.
As far as rebuilding axles it is a very easy thing if you have the press and the nitrogen and will become a cost effective method of replacing worn axles as the greater public becomes aware of it. The limiting factor will be the 2 way transportation of the axles.
I could see several regional shops popping to do this as it is clearly something that can not be outsourced to China. In fact it is something that could be done with that axles on the trailer.
The limiting factor would be maintaining a bath of liquid nitrogen.
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Henschen, way back then, had a "rebuilding program."
They quit it several years ago, and with far more than just a "good reason."
Unfortunately, many axle tubes were substancially rusted on the interior, as well as the exterior.
That made the rebuild, very libelous, since obviously, the strength of the square tube has been compromised.
That, in itself, may be a stumbling block for someone that may want to get into the "torsion axle" rebuild business.
Andy
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03-26-2009, 01:27 PM
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#18
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Rivet Master
, Minnesota
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In
That made the rebuild, very libelous, since obviously, the strength of the square tube . . .
Andy
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Now thats so funny I'm libel to die laughing!
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03-26-2009, 01:29 PM
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#19
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Rivet Master
1991 34' Excella
Princeton
, New Jersey
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,070
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The axles on my trailer were shot when the trailer was 3 years old. Now that may have had something to do with the fact that the trailer sat in Fl. for those 3 years and never moved.
Given such conditions deterioration of the axle tubes would not have been a question and rebuild would have been a very favorable option.
Any potential rebuilder would most likely have an evaluation test to determine the usability of axles coming in for rebuild just as an engine or transmission rebuilder would have. The fact that some axles might not pass a rebuild test is no reason to discount the idea as a viable one.
__________________
WBCCI 12156 AIR 3144 WACHUNG TAC NJ6
2004 Excursion 4x4
1991 34 ft. Excella +220,000 miles, new laminated flooring, new upholstery, new 3200 lbs axles
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03-26-2009, 01:53 PM
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#20
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Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
Corona
, California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markdoane
Now thats so funny I'm libel to die laughing!
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Henschens corporate attorneys didn't think it was funny at all.
Andy
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