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Old 05-10-2011, 07:22 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by overlander63 View Post
For your little Globetrotter, precise alignment isn't necessary, since you only have the one axle. Your 1/8" alignment will be "close enough". At worst, the trailer will track maybe an inch out of straight, and won't wear the tires funny, since you only have one per side, and they won't be working against each other.

+1. Single axle, small trailer, good enough...now GIT R DONE!
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Old 05-12-2011, 11:11 PM   #102
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TOP, Trailer of Personnel... thanks for the intel today on the phone. Thanks again,
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Old 05-13-2011, 09:18 AM   #103
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Where did you get these numbers? They dont really sound like "brake stoping power" numbers. They sound sound more like GVW per axle numbers. I've never heard of anything being engineered to do the minimum with no safety designed in. What I am saying is a 3500# axle doesnt fail at 3501#, so why would they design the brakes to do just that. If they know we wont adjust them, and they put in wrighting,
"At 50 percent, 10 inch brakes can then properly stop 1750 pounds per axle, and 12 inch brakes can properly stop 3100 pounds per axle", then they would get sued everytime one failed.
The numbers come from the brake manufacturers catalogs.

All electric brakes will fade when they get hot enough.

That being the case, check 10 inch and 12inch brakes on the same size trailer, and see how fast the 10 brakes fade out.

Amazing observation.

Andy
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Old 05-13-2011, 09:52 AM   #104
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Andy, based on circumference, a 12' brake has 1.2 times the circumference of a 10". That is not inconsequential and certainly gives an extra margin for those inexperienced enough to be using their brakes that much. I'm glad to have a tranny as controllable as my Allison, but gearing down should be available to any competent tow vehicle as the first resort.

I know that 12" vs. 10" is part of the discussion for replacement axles; ie, Henschen spec'd vs. Dexter vs. Axis. The answer I've never seen is: Jackson Center is installing Dexters on new Airstreams. Are these 10" drums?
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Old 05-13-2011, 10:56 AM   #105
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10 vs 12: do the bigger brakes require new rims? I'm imagining that a new axle will make tire changing a LOT easier, but the bigger brakes might make it more difficult? I mention this after having to change tires twice and having to let air out to get them in and out of the wheel well. This would be less of an issue except for the nearest gas station with air is 10 miles away. Fortunately I was able to use the compressor at the nearby corporation yard for our area, but what a colossal pain, I can't imagine doing it on the road.
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Old 05-13-2011, 11:22 AM   #106
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Andy, based on circumference, a 12' brake has 1.2 times the circumference of a 10". That is not inconsequential and certainly gives an extra margin for those inexperienced enough to be using their brakes that much. I'm glad to have a tranny as controllable as my Allison, but gearing down should be available to any competent tow vehicle as the first resort.

I know that 12" vs. 10" is part of the discussion for replacement axles; ie, Henschen spec'd vs. Dexter vs. Axis. The answer I've never seen is: Jackson Center is installing Dexters on new Airstreams. Are these 10" drums?
12 inch drums weigh 33 pounds and 10 inch drums weigh 22 pounds each.

That in itself, says the 12 inch drums have much more surface to dissipate the heat generated when braking, than the 10 inch drums.

SAFETY is the real issue, first and foremost and then stopping power.

Seven inch brakes are also available for those that wish to down size.

What Airstream may do with brakes today, is dictated by Dexter, not Airstream.

Andy

Andy
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Old 05-13-2011, 12:01 PM   #107
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Andy, I'm with ya on the brake size- larger brakes give you reserve capacity and a better margin of safety.
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Old 05-13-2011, 12:56 PM   #108
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10 vs 12: do the bigger brakes require new rims? I'm imagining that a new axle will make tire changing a LOT easier, but the bigger brakes might make it more difficult? I mention this after having to change tires twice and having to let air out to get them in and out of the wheel well. This would be less of an issue except for the nearest gas station with air is 10 miles away. Fortunately I was able to use the compressor at the nearby corporation yard for our area, but what a colossal pain, I can't imagine doing it on the road.
Bad axles make tire changing difficult, never the size of the brakes.

Of course changing 14 inch wheels to 16 inch wheels, will make it more difficult, as well.

Andy
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Old 05-13-2011, 02:52 PM   #109
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12 inch drums weigh 33 pounds and 10 inch drums weigh 22 pounds each.

That in itself, says the 12 inch drums have much more surface to dissipate the heat generated when braking, than the 10 inch drums.

SAFETY is the real issue, first and foremost and then stopping power.

Seven inch brakes are also available for those that wish to down size.

What Airstream may do with brakes today, is dictated by Dexter, not Airstream.

Andy

Andy
So, is JC puttin' 10" or 12" on todays airstreams?????
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Old 05-14-2011, 09:57 AM   #110
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So, is JC puttin' 10" or 12" on todays airstreams?????
They are using both, depending on the model.

Andy
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Old 05-19-2011, 08:11 PM   #111
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The finished product

I have Abby's axles all installed and she's off the jack stands so I took a picture to show the change in ride height.

Before. December 2010.
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After
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She should be smooth as silk!
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Old 05-19-2011, 09:36 PM   #112
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That's quite a difference, Top. I look forward to seeing all of your hard work at the rally.
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Old 05-19-2011, 10:08 PM   #113
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Nice looking work Top, but do you have the stopping power coming from the Hill country down here?
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Old 05-19-2011, 10:41 PM   #114
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I think we'll manage.
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Old 07-19-2011, 08:42 PM   #115
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Smile Post trip assesment

We got back from our long summer trip a week ago. I just wanted to follow up with everyone on how the trip went and how Abby towed with her new Axis axles. To sum it all up in a word,
Wonderful!
We left on 30 June and returned on 9 July. We went from here in central Texas to Moab, Utah and back. Some 2,626 miles. She towed like a dream. Smooth as silk. We went up and down some steep hills in Texas and Colorado. I never once had the brake controller above 3.5v. The brakes worked great. I never had any worry that the brakes on Abby weren't enough. So for those of you reading this wondering if 10" brakes are enough on a 3,500lb axle, I say they are more than adequate.
It was a long trip and we went on some great and some not so great roads. There were no problems of everything being on the floor when we finished a long tow. It was a considerably better ride than the last long trip to Big Bend in December on the original Henschens. We did hit this HUGE dip on US 550 in NM near the Apache Nugget Casino tent. I was very glad we had new Axis axles from Colin Hyde Trailer Restorations under Abby for that one.
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Old 07-21-2011, 10:50 AM   #116
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i love it! I am eagerly waiting on my axles that I ordered, hope to get back at it soon. I will post a seperate thread as you did. Hope you had a great time on your trip!
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Old 07-21-2011, 12:34 PM   #117
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Great thread TOP! I have learned a lot reading it through, your work (and subsequent documetation thereof) is impressive! We all have something(s) to learn from each other. This makes the dreaded "must replace axles" task less daunting... Axles, TVs and other "contentious" issues will always be topics for debate...
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Old 08-03-2011, 08:25 PM   #118
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I replaced our 70 Overlander axles with new Axis axles recently. After driving on the originals for over 750 miles (they were about neutral in position so not really bad) it is a completely different ride with the new axles. It takes all the bumps and tends to absorb them, it rides smoother with much less movement and sway, (I've towed it with and without a load level sway control system to compair) and of course it's riding higher. We started seeing the tell tale signs with rub rail detaching, cabinet separations and a lot of bouncing on the road. We just got back from a 10 day trip-our second trip since owning it and it towed through the mountains of West Virginia like a dream. Even on the 6% grades the brakes were smooth and solid. I would highly recommend to anyone contemplating the issue to definately replace them and enjoy the ride!
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Old 10-05-2011, 05:08 PM   #119
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I am with Andy on this brake issue. Drum brakes are funny. Adjustment makes a big difference. Only part of the drum brake power comes from the magnet. Some of it comes from the frictional forces produced by the shoes when they begin to rub against the inside of the drum. The frictional forces actually increase the braking forces. It is a boot strap kinda thing. This is why drum brakes are a little more touchy than disk brakes. If they are out of adjustment they may not work right. If you will notice many drum brakes have the front shoe made of a different material. This is to make sure you have the correct amount of friction. Too much and the brakes lock with little effort and too little they don't work hardly at all. I put some cheap brake shoes on the back of my truck a while back and they would lock up all the time. I took them back and got the next higher grade and they worked fine. Most brake controllers apply full brakes so trailer brakes have a hard life. If you just barely put your foot on the brake the trailer gets 100% power after a small delay. Unless you have a proportional controller they all work this way. So I would much rather have the 12" brakes because they will run cooler and not fade as quickly. All of them will stop you under the best of conditions but will they stop under the worst conditions of going down a mountain and being not perfectly adjusted.

Perry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In View Post
The numbers come from the brake manufacturers catalogs.

All electric brakes will fade when they get hot enough.

That being the case, check 10 inch and 12inch brakes on the same size trailer, and see how fast the 10 brakes fade out.

Amazing observation.

Andy
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