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05-10-2011, 07:22 AM
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#101
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Rivet Master 
Currently Looking...
Florissant
, USA
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,083
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overlander63
For your little Globetrotter, precise alignment isn't necessary, since you only have the one axle. Your 1/8" alignment will be "close enough". At worst, the trailer will track maybe an inch out of straight, and won't wear the tires funny, since you only have one per side, and they won't be working against each other.
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+1. Single axle, small trailer, good enough...now GIT R DONE!
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05-12-2011, 11:11 PM
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#102
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Rivet Master 

1981 20' International
Shasta Lake City
, California
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,113
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TOP, Trailer of Personnel... thanks for the intel today on the phone. Thanks again,
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05-13-2011, 09:18 AM
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#103
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Rivet Master 
Airstream Dealer
Corona
, California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lahrfarm
Where did you get these numbers? They dont really sound like "brake stoping power" numbers. They sound sound more like GVW per axle numbers. I've never heard of anything being engineered to do the minimum with no safety designed in. What I am saying is a 3500# axle doesnt fail at 3501#, so why would they design the brakes to do just that. If they know we wont adjust them, and they put in wrighting,
"At 50 percent, 10 inch brakes can then properly stop 1750 pounds per axle, and 12 inch brakes can properly stop 3100 pounds per axle", then they would get sued everytime one failed.
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The numbers come from the brake manufacturers catalogs.
All electric brakes will fade when they get hot enough.
That being the case, check 10 inch and 12inch brakes on the same size trailer, and see how fast the 10 brakes fade out.
Amazing observation.
Andy
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05-13-2011, 09:52 AM
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#104
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Rivet Master 

2006 25' Safari FB SE
St. Cloud
, Minnesota
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,280
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Andy, based on circumference, a 12' brake has 1.2 times the circumference of a 10". That is not inconsequential and certainly gives an extra margin for those inexperienced enough to be using their brakes that much. I'm glad to have a tranny as controllable as my Allison, but gearing down should be available to any competent tow vehicle as the first resort.
I know that 12" vs. 10" is part of the discussion for replacement axles; ie, Henschen spec'd vs. Dexter vs. Axis. The answer I've never seen is: Jackson Center is installing Dexters on new Airstreams. Are these 10" drums?
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05-13-2011, 10:56 AM
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#105
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Rivet Master 
1964 19' Globetrotter
South Kingstown
, Rhode Island
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,394
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10 vs 12: do the bigger brakes require new rims? I'm imagining that a new axle will make tire changing a LOT easier, but the bigger brakes might make it more difficult? I mention this after having to change tires twice and having to let air out to get them in and out of the wheel well. This would be less of an issue except for the nearest gas station with air is 10 miles away. Fortunately I was able to use the compressor at the nearby corporation yard for our area, but what a colossal pain, I can't imagine doing it on the road.
__________________
Wherever you go, there you are
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05-13-2011, 11:22 AM
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#106
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Rivet Master 
Airstream Dealer
Corona
, California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanoeStream
Andy, based on circumference, a 12' brake has 1.2 times the circumference of a 10". That is not inconsequential and certainly gives an extra margin for those inexperienced enough to be using their brakes that much. I'm glad to have a tranny as controllable as my Allison, but gearing down should be available to any competent tow vehicle as the first resort.
I know that 12" vs. 10" is part of the discussion for replacement axles; ie, Henschen spec'd vs. Dexter vs. Axis. The answer I've never seen is: Jackson Center is installing Dexters on new Airstreams. Are these 10" drums?
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12 inch drums weigh 33 pounds and 10 inch drums weigh 22 pounds each.
That in itself, says the 12 inch drums have much more surface to dissipate the heat generated when braking, than the 10 inch drums.
SAFETY is the real issue, first and foremost and then stopping power.
Seven inch brakes are also available for those that wish to down size.
What Airstream may do with brakes today, is dictated by Dexter, not Airstream.
Andy
Andy
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05-13-2011, 12:01 PM
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#107
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Rivet Master 
1964 19' Globetrotter
South Kingstown
, Rhode Island
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,394
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Andy, I'm with ya on the brake size- larger brakes give you reserve capacity and a better margin of safety.
__________________
Wherever you go, there you are
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05-13-2011, 12:56 PM
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#108
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Rivet Master 
Airstream Dealer
Corona
, California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Globie64
10 vs 12: do the bigger brakes require new rims? I'm imagining that a new axle will make tire changing a LOT easier, but the bigger brakes might make it more difficult? I mention this after having to change tires twice and having to let air out to get them in and out of the wheel well. This would be less of an issue except for the nearest gas station with air is 10 miles away. Fortunately I was able to use the compressor at the nearby corporation yard for our area, but what a colossal pain, I can't imagine doing it on the road.
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Bad axles make tire changing difficult, never the size of the brakes.
Of course changing 14 inch wheels to 16 inch wheels, will make it more difficult, as well.
Andy
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05-13-2011, 02:52 PM
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#109
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Rivet Master 
1997 30' Excella
1961 26' Overlander
1954 22' Flying Cloud
1981 28' Airstream 280
San Antonio
, Texas
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,436
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In
12 inch drums weigh 33 pounds and 10 inch drums weigh 22 pounds each.
That in itself, says the 12 inch drums have much more surface to dissipate the heat generated when braking, than the 10 inch drums.
SAFETY is the real issue, first and foremost and then stopping power.
Seven inch brakes are also available for those that wish to down size.
What Airstream may do with brakes today, is dictated by Dexter, not Airstream.
Andy
Andy
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So, is JC puttin' 10" or 12" on todays airstreams?????
__________________
Bruce
WBCCI# 9259 AIR# 38927 TAC-TX 14
Stop Littering-Spay & Neuter-- Adopt From Rescue
No amount of time will erase the memory of a great dog.
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05-14-2011, 09:57 AM
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#110
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Rivet Master 
Airstream Dealer
Corona
, California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwoodtx
So, is JC puttin' 10" or 12" on todays airstreams?????
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They are using both, depending on the model.
Andy
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05-19-2011, 08:11 PM
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#111
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Always learning
1972 29' Ambassador
1962 19' Globetrotter
1951 21' Flying Cloud
Central
, Texas
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,867
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The finished product
I have Abby's axles all installed and she's off the jack stands so I took a picture to show the change in ride height.
Before. December 2010.

After
She should be smooth as silk!
__________________
Lance
Work is never done, so take time to play!
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05-19-2011, 09:36 PM
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#112
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Rivet Master 
1997 30' Excella
1961 26' Overlander
1954 22' Flying Cloud
1981 28' Airstream 280
San Antonio
, Texas
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,436
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That's quite a difference, Top. I look forward to seeing all of your hard work at the rally.
__________________
Bruce
WBCCI# 9259 AIR# 38927 TAC-TX 14
Stop Littering-Spay & Neuter-- Adopt From Rescue
No amount of time will erase the memory of a great dog.
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05-19-2011, 10:08 PM
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#113
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Rivet Master 
Currently Looking...
Florissant
, USA
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,083
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Nice looking work Top, but do you have the stopping power coming from the Hill country down here?
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05-19-2011, 10:41 PM
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#114
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Always learning
1972 29' Ambassador
1962 19' Globetrotter
1951 21' Flying Cloud
Central
, Texas
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,867
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I think we'll manage.
__________________
Lance
Work is never done, so take time to play!
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07-19-2011, 08:42 PM
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#115
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Always learning
1972 29' Ambassador
1962 19' Globetrotter
1951 21' Flying Cloud
Central
, Texas
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,867
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Post trip assesment
We got back from our long summer trip a week ago. I just wanted to follow up with everyone on how the trip went and how Abby towed with her new Axis axles. To sum it all up in a word,
Wonderful!
We left on 30 June and returned on 9 July. We went from here in central Texas to Moab, Utah and back. Some 2,626 miles. She towed like a dream. Smooth as silk. We went up and down some steep hills in Texas and Colorado. I never once had the brake controller above 3.5v. The brakes worked great. I never had any worry that the brakes on Abby weren't enough. So for those of you reading this wondering if 10" brakes are enough on a 3,500lb axle, I say they are more than adequate.
It was a long trip and we went on some great and some not so great roads. There were no problems of everything being on the floor when we finished a long tow. It was a considerably better ride than the last long trip to Big Bend in December on the original Henschens. We did hit this HUGE dip on US 550 in NM near the Apache Nugget Casino tent. I was very glad we had new Axis axles from Colin Hyde Trailer Restorations under Abby for that one.
   
__________________
Lance
Work is never done, so take time to play!
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07-21-2011, 10:50 AM
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#116
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Tool Hoarder
Currently Looking...
West
, California
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 907
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i love it! I am eagerly waiting on my axles that I ordered, hope to get back at it soon. I will post a seperate thread as you did. Hope you had a great time on your trip!
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07-21-2011, 12:34 PM
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#117
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4 Rivet Member 
1973 Argosy 26
1966 30' Sovereign
Currently Looking...
Southern
, Wisconsin
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 273
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Great thread TOP! I have learned a lot reading it through, your work (and subsequent documetation thereof) is impressive! We all have something(s) to learn from each other. This makes the dreaded "must replace axles" task less daunting... Axles, TVs and other "contentious" issues will always be topics for debate...
__________________
All that is gold does not always glitter...those who wander not always are lost....
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08-03-2011, 08:25 PM
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#118
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3 Rivet Member 
1969 27' Overlander
Shaker Heights
, Ohio
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 156
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I replaced our 70 Overlander axles with new Axis axles recently. After driving on the originals for over 750 miles (they were about neutral in position so not really bad) it is a completely different ride with the new axles. It takes all the bumps and tends to absorb them, it rides smoother with much less movement and sway, (I've towed it with and without a load level sway control system to compair) and of course it's riding higher. We started seeing the tell tale signs with rub rail detaching, cabinet separations and a lot of bouncing on the road. We just got back from a 10 day trip-our second trip since owning it and it towed through the mountains of West Virginia like a dream. Even on the 6% grades the brakes were smooth and solid. I would highly recommend to anyone contemplating the issue to definately replace them and enjoy the ride!
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10-05-2011, 05:08 PM
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#119
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Rivet Master 
1981 31' Excella II
New Market
, Alabama
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 6,130
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I am with Andy on this brake issue. Drum brakes are funny. Adjustment makes a big difference. Only part of the drum brake power comes from the magnet. Some of it comes from the frictional forces produced by the shoes when they begin to rub against the inside of the drum. The frictional forces actually increase the braking forces. It is a boot strap kinda thing. This is why drum brakes are a little more touchy than disk brakes. If they are out of adjustment they may not work right. If you will notice many drum brakes have the front shoe made of a different material. This is to make sure you have the correct amount of friction. Too much and the brakes lock with little effort and too little they don't work hardly at all. I put some cheap brake shoes on the back of my truck a while back and they would lock up all the time. I took them back and got the next higher grade and they worked fine. Most brake controllers apply full brakes so trailer brakes have a hard life. If you just barely put your foot on the brake the trailer gets 100% power after a small delay. Unless you have a proportional controller they all work this way. So I would much rather have the 12" brakes because they will run cooler and not fade as quickly. All of them will stop you under the best of conditions but will they stop under the worst conditions of going down a mountain and being not perfectly adjusted.
Perry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In
The numbers come from the brake manufacturers catalogs.
All electric brakes will fade when they get hot enough.
That being the case, check 10 inch and 12inch brakes on the same size trailer, and see how fast the 10 brakes fade out.
Amazing observation.
Andy
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