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Old 08-07-2006, 08:01 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by empresley
I sell 4 different brands of trailers and my recommendation to customers is to keep a spare set of bearings & seal to take along on any out-of-town trips. No matter how frequent or well packed, bearings occasionally decide to fail. Another suggestion is to become familiar with the hub temp. (by touching) when traveling.
What do you touch for this test? I am confronted with the aluninum wheel, then a metal hubcap. Even if I were to remove the hubcap (lools like a silver dixie cup), there would still be the dust cap. Do you have to somehow reach around behind the tire? Hah?
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Old 08-07-2006, 08:16 PM   #22
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Infra Red Temp Sensor

I love gadgets, so I bought an infra red temp sensor. When towing, I stop every 100 to 150 miles and do a walk around check of tires, hitch, etc. It is super easy with the temp sensor to check tire, wheel, hub temps on both the truck and the trailer. If something shows a temp much different from the others, it's a signal to look further. I've never had a bearing problem, but I have found a tire with a nail this way - the tire pressures were OK at the start of the trip, but one of the tires was noticeably hotter during a check, and a closer look showed a nail, and a lower tire pressure.

Plus, it's useful for so many other things, like the temp of the A/C output, water heater output, etc. By checking rooutinely, I get a feel for what is normal, and can spot things that are changing before they fail outright.

Just a suggestion, fwiw.
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Old 08-07-2006, 09:00 PM   #23
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Hi Frederic.C01,

From your post I do not dismount the bearings, just the hat and I grease inside.thank you for your information)

The only place lubricant does any good is inn the bearing. Placing too much grease inside the bearing cap or in the middle of the hub between the bearings can actually interfere with the bearings ability to disipate heat. The bearings do need to be removed, cleaned, inspected and repacked as others have said.
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Old 08-08-2006, 12:40 AM   #24
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Hi-- The Nev-R-Lube bearings on Dexter axles according to http://dexteraxle.com, are Timken double row tapered cartridge bearings, comprised of a double row cup, two identical cones, two seals, with preset adjustment and grease. The #10 Torflex axle uses a cartridge bearing with a 35mm bore (about 1-3/8"), while the #11 and #12 Torflex axles use a 42mm bore (about 1-5/8"). The #10 axle has 10 x 2-1/4" brakes, while the #11 and #12 have 12 x 2" brakes. All three axles have 6 on 5.50" bolt circle hub-drums, for zero offset wheels. I believe TOM CRUMP mentioned in another thread that his originial A/S zero offset wheels have a different bolt circle, and/or pilot hole, which required new wheels.--Frank S
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Old 08-08-2006, 11:20 AM   #25
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Frozen Chosen, Pick something near the hub. Your hup cap would work. Just make it consistant for all wheels on all checks. What you are lookig for (or feeling for) is a noticable change in temp from one wheel/hub assy to the others.

The infra red thermometer (as suggested above) is a more accurate and a bit more expensive way to do the same.

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Old 08-08-2006, 11:22 AM   #26
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Here is more on the thermometer.

http://www.omega.com/prodinfo/infraredthermometer.html

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Old 08-08-2006, 01:32 PM   #27
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Feeling up your hubs

Quote:
Originally Posted by frozen chosen
What do you touch for this test? I am confronted with the aluninum wheel, then a metal hubcap. Even if I were to remove the hubcap (lools like a silver dixie cup), there would still be the dust cap. Do you have to somehow reach around behind the tire?

Wheel covers or even center caps do get in the way but this is not nearly as scientific as the infra-red temp. device (which is a great idea).
Since the wheel is bolted to the drum/hub, you can get a fairly good idea of normal vs. overheated by touching the wheel as close to the lug bolts as possible. Since repacking the bearings on our '84 tri-axle I have been using the large openings in the alum. wheel covers to reach in and put a finger on the wheel.
What I forgot to mention in the first post was that the temp. can feel hotter to the touch if you have just been heavy on the brakes before coming to a stop. Please keep in mind this is not an exact science but I promise, you can develop a "feel" for a normal heat range. I have put my hand on hubs that were hot enough to burn vs. warm after several hours of continuous driving.
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Old 08-09-2006, 01:00 AM   #28
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Hello Frank S,

Thats is very interesting ,tapered timkens in a sealed bearing design .
As I had posted earlier on this thread ,the auto end of it uses the ball
bearing setup ,double rows .I recall the early toyota tercels used taper rollers
and a steel spacer for preload .They went away from that to the standard
style that most vehicals use today .I cannot think of any vehical I can remember having sealed timkens ,ecept the tercel .Anyway ,I hope that
that setup will give trouble free service.Look forward to how well those
neverlube hubs will last .It would be nice not to have to worry about them .
I would ,now and then ,check them for rotational noise and smoothness ,
preload ,or play in the hub ,just to keep tabs on this new style of hub.


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Old 08-09-2006, 12:27 PM   #29
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Hi scottanlily--I think the main reason Timken taper cartridge bearings are used is Timken was probably the only manufacturer willing to tool up for a series of cartridge bearings (very expensive), and offer them to the market at an affordable price. Ball bearings could also be used, however to get enough load carrying capacity the package would have to have a much larger OD. Dexter also offers a 50mm (approx. 2") bore Nev-R-Lube bearing on their 8000# axles. The reason current automotive cartridge bearings are not used is that they run out of capacity quickly, and can only be used on lighter capacity axles, which are usually so competitively priced, that standard tapered bearings from China are used on most.--Frank S
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Old 08-09-2006, 07:25 PM   #30
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You know back in the steam locomotive days ,one of my favorite eras ,although ,I wasn't born yet ,Timken approached the pennsy line
I think it was about using these new bearings ,as they had brass inserts
for bearings then on the large drivers .they installed a few sets on there
larger locomotives and were amazed at how fantastic they were ,and how
many more miles they could run the locomotive before service was needed
and then it was very frequent as long runs were common .timken bearings
really set the standard and still does .Check the travel channel with John
Ratsenberger (made in America) he did a show at the timken factory ,it was very cool .Most all bearings now are japan or china .I recommend at the
least Japan if timken oem is not readily available ,not china ,look on your
bearing races and cones ,it will say either timken or japan .The japan bearings
are good, no chinese bearings please. You are so right about the capacity
and the timken ,I forgot there about trailers and the load capacity factor.
The tapered roller would be the best ,as the locomotive story points out.
Those things weighed ,what a couple hundred tons ,very heavy ,and the
tapered rollers became standard on all steam locomotives soon after .
Now ,I don't have exact data on the all part ,but many to be sure.

Scott
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Old 08-09-2006, 10:21 PM   #31
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Dexter and Chinese bearings

I just purchased a Dexter replacement hub for my original axles on a 1966 Overlander. Dexter and most axle companies now seem to be using the Chinese bearings. You should still be able to get Timken bearings from a bearing supply shop, as that is where I found mine. The new Dexter hub was for their 5200 pound rated axle, with 12"x2" brakes. This hub uses the same bearings as my original. It comes with the Chinese races installed and can be ordered to include their bearings. The cost was $50 and some cents. I also prefer the Timken bearings. Everything fit on the hub except their grese seal, but the new original seal fit fine.
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Old 08-11-2006, 10:10 AM   #32
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Hi--Much discussion about the required re-greasing of regular tapered wheel bearings, vs permanently sealed wheel bearings. In reality the regular bearings are permanently sealed, until you open them up for maintenance, which is where the problems begin: too much grease, too little grease, incorrect end play, dirt in the bearings, brake dust in the bearings, seals damaged, seals installed backward, damage to bearings while removing or installing, reinstalled cups not tight against hub bore shoulder, re-mounted wheels incorrectly torqued, and more. Permanently sealed bearings do have some design advantages. Seal lips run on hardened and smoothly ground surfaces rather than machined soft steel, and mounting is more concentric. Because wheels turn at relatively slow speed (about 800rpm max), these design advantages do not offer much performance advantage. I still contend more problems are the result of frequent bearing repacking, as opposed to a longer maintenance cycle.--Frank S
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Old 08-11-2006, 10:17 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank S
...... I still contend more problems are the result of frequent bearing repacking, as opposed to a longer maintenance cycle.--Frank S
Frank, do I understand your position to be that one should not repack every year? IF so, what maintance schedule do you advocate?
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Old 08-11-2006, 10:22 AM   #34
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Hi Gen Disarray--At the time tires are replaced would be a good time to service bearings.--Frank S
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Old 08-11-2006, 10:37 AM   #35
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Frank,

I agree, repack the bearings when you replace the tires or when you service the brakes, whichever comes first. Of course this assumes that the bearings were properly packed and adjusted the last time. The only way to be sure of that is to do it yourself.

Jim
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Old 08-11-2006, 04:32 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmickle
Frank,

I agree, repack the bearings when you replace the tires or when you service the brakes, whichever comes first. Of course this assumes that the bearings were properly packed and adjusted the last time. The only way to be sure of that is to do it yourself.

Jim

When bearings are repacked, "ALWAYS" change the grease seals.

Andy
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Old 08-11-2006, 05:59 PM   #37
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bearings, axles, brakes, temps, warranties and sensible service intervals.....

sealed or not the 'non service' bearing packs are nice....sometimes....ford now uses these on the front of superduties...they have had some failures....but mechanics agree they are quicker and easier to change. looked at the dester website....looks like a good product. doesn't say they are good for 100k. says they are guaranteed against defects for 100k or 5 years....so they might run many miles longer....still only 5 years if not used much...would be an expensive item. and sealed against what? water, air, submersion? how will they know if i'm at 100k...is their a meter?

i wonder if the dexter bearings will work with henschen axles? i would like that....and get some.

yes the rumor was only one year for dexter, then back to henschens...i even repeated it...but i asked a company head in july....'no we are still using dexter" was the reply...

given i've got discs it is easier to inspect brakes...but how do you guys with older drums get past that step...still gotta do it right? bearings not in the way?

perhaps as a/s moves toward more disc brake models...the neveRlube will be included...

i expect to see dexter making hitech brake controllers that will complement the disc set ups....

i have and use the lazer therm...i still don't know what the numbers mean....so much variablity is readings that it seems to be false security really.....just use your hand or nose....

agree with frank and jim...bearings well packed not water soaked...can go a long time without service....BUT the factory warranty requires bearings be inspected at 6 months....so the seal is broke and so on.....

keeping in warranty requires yearly service too....so intervals for new vs old are different....

i had my 6 month inspection done at the factory...paid for it...service report said only outside bearings were inspected...i asked and was told...your bearings are fine...they didn't need inspecting anyway...by the factory service guys...

lots of guys like to tinker...
doing bearings, checking battery water and so on...
if everything is maintanence free....
they'll have too much free time too....

wife won't like that...

cheers
2air'
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Old 08-11-2006, 08:55 PM   #38
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Hello everyone ,

since the sealed bearing assemblies are new ,time will tell if they will hold
up ok. I think it is a good idea .hope they will be as completely reliable
as they are in the auto/truck industy ,I rarely have to do anything with
wheel bearings on todays vehicals with unit bearing assemblies .I do a "feel "
test for smoothness and roughness and for play in the bearing ,they should
not have any play in them at all ,not designed to .The neverlube may be
different ,as I haven't had any experience with them at this point.

Scott of scottanlily
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Old 08-11-2006, 11:45 PM   #39
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Hi 2airishuman--The normal wheel hub with two taper bearings has a larger bearing inboard. The sealed cartridge bearing is one piece with a common bore and OD for both roller assemblies, therefore they are not interchangeable. They are made by Timken, and could be used on any manufacturer's hub/axle that is designed to use this cartridge bearing.--Frank S
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