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Old 02-20-2018, 10:29 PM   #121
Rivet Master

 
2007 22' International CCD
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How to gain more clearance

Just invest in a good set of jack stands and wooden cribbing to get it into the air and work safely underneath.

Trying to use concrete or cinder blocks is dangerous if not downright fatal...

Found one axle at a time is also a darn good idea...
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Old 02-20-2018, 11:23 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by GMFL View Post
You can do it. If I was closer I would help. I did mine and it was not to bad
Thanks! I wish you were closer too or traveling through. You are welcome to camp in our driveway. 30 amps of power and water.
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Old 02-20-2018, 11:29 PM   #123
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Has anyone done this for a 30' flying cloud? We have the bunk model and it seems to have the #11 axles. When I first got the unit, I called Dexter and at that time, they said they didn't have anything. But it looks like they do now:

K71-724-02: Frame Spacer Kit
Fits Dexter Torflex #11 axles. Increases ride by 2.88", for two axles.

The installation instructions look similar to what I have observed underneath when checking things out to see if it could be done. The only real variable would be the shock absorber. Not sure how much more extension that would end up being, or if it matters, or if there is a similar shock I could get that is a bit longer?

Here is a video of a guy doing exactly this - with #11 axles!



Any insight / ideas are most appreciated - thanks!
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Old 02-21-2018, 10:25 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by bbdo View Post
Has anyone done this for a 30' flying cloud? We have the bunk model and it seems to have the #11 axles. When I first got the unit, I called Dexter and at that time, they said they didn't have anything. But it looks like they do now:

K71-724-02: Frame Spacer Kit
Fits Dexter Torflex #11 axles. Increases ride by 2.88", for two axles.

The installation instructions look similar to what I have observed underneath when checking things out to see if it could be done. The only real variable would be the shock absorber. Not sure how much more extension that would end up being, or if it matters, or if there is a similar shock I could get that is a bit longer?

Here is a video of a guy doing exactly this - with #11 axles!

Any insight / ideas are most appreciated - thanks!
Looks like same axles and kit I used for my 27FB.

The shocks are a non-issue. They mount almost horizontally. So with the axle/spindle moving down, doesn't change their stroke much.

The mod you may need to do is cut down one of the bolts that may interfere with the body of the shock. Easily done with an angle grinder or cut-off wheel

This picture will help. See the bolt head at the right axle, between the brake wire and shock body? The shock body in at the new lowered position may interfere with that bolt depending on the bolts orientation (in vs out).

Nothing scary, it's still a straight forward install. I believe longer trailers are a more straightforward install as there's no access or interference issues (e.g gas line)

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Old 02-21-2018, 10:44 AM   #125
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billings , Montana
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I installed the 3” dexter lift kit on out 20013 , 31’ Classic..10000 Miles so far....it was a good move ,no worries of tail draggin...also have 16”michelins...so it is up 3.5”.....so far. It has been all positive..
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Old 02-21-2018, 12:04 PM   #126
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I installed lift on a friends 30’ in my driveway. With decent skills, luck and bandaids can be done.

Suggestion. Prior to removing or loosening any attaching bolts scribe a position reference line from axle to frame.

R&R axle and line up reference line while final tightening.

Effort is to try to put em back where they came from.

Gary
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Old 02-21-2018, 12:11 PM   #127
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Question: do you loosen both sides of each axle from the frame to avoid twisting the frame? this seems to make sense but also would allow more movement and possibly out of alignment. But I guess that is what the scribe is used for.

Also, do you complete both axles on one side then the other, or complete one axle at a time?

thanks,
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Old 02-21-2018, 08:54 PM   #128
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How to gain more clearance

Safest procedure is to do one axle, both ends, at one time. Leave wheels on the other axle. Then reinstall wheels on that completed axle, pull wheels on other axle, and do it. Gives you a set of wheels on one axle to help protect your body if a jackstand fails.

The idea is to minimize the chance of an uncontrolled fall. It’s true you have to loosen lug nuts when trailer is on the ground, but leave them finger tight on the axle you are not working on. Then when you are all done, torque all the lug nuts on all the wheels before you lower the AS completely. Safer that way.

Watched a video of some dude with his AS up on a single skinny jackstand on each side, no cribbing, with all four of the wheels off. Made me cringe when he went under it that way. Jackstands can and do fail unexpectedly. Not best practice on his part.

Wether you are lifting the trailer or doing brakes or bearings, it’s best to have a set of wheels to maintain ground clearance. Death by crushing is, I’m told, no fun at all, but hey, “everyone’s entitled to at least one fatal error” ... according to Maxwell Smart

And yes, my jackstands are not from Harbor Freight and they are rated for 8,000 pounds each. The trailer, empty, is just north of 6,000. Overkill, you bet your butt! (Literally).
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Old 02-21-2018, 09:15 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steamy1 View Post
Question: do you loosen both sides of each axle from the frame to avoid twisting the frame? this seems to make sense but also would allow more movement and possibly out of alignment. But I guess that is what the scribe is used for.

Also, do you complete both axles on one side then the other, or complete one axle at a time?

thanks,
I run the trailer up on some blocks...3-4 “ rear axle only, so you can roll around under the trailer...removed front axle wheels.. did front first..scribe where axle bracket bolts on with a square...both sides....loosen bolts both sides...let one side down , install spacer , loose bolt it ,do other side...a few of the nuts had to weld a wing on it as you can’t get a wrench in there...torque them :
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Old 02-21-2018, 10:37 PM   #130
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Thank you for the information. Very helpful.
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Old 02-24-2018, 07:13 PM   #131
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A note about jack stands and a floor jack to lift a trailer. I used both and was working on the tanks when I noticed they seemed closer to me than they had before I went to the house for lunch. The ground was a bit soft and both had sunk more than a inch. I guess that would be a slow and unhappy death if the ground were softer. If you are on dirt, use some thick boards to distribute the weight.

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Old 07-03-2018, 12:17 PM   #132
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I just completed a 2 7/8" Lift on my 1998 Excella 1000 34 tri-axle. The axles were Henschel and I had to modify a #11 lift kit. The hole centers for the kit were 9.5" where it attaches to the frame and needed to be 9". I used a boring machine to make the holes on the kit oblong to fit the 9" centers. Also welded tabs to the head of the bolts to keep them from spinning which was a life saver for the non-existent clearance for many of the bolts.

I had a clearance problem backing into my pole bldg., grounded the skid plates hard. Problem solved and a quick tow showed no problems so far. I just purchased this unit and am beginning a renovation project.

Picture is pre-lift.
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Old 08-06-2018, 09:53 AM   #133
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Fort Worth , Texas
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Keeping air away from the underside of the trailer in a crosswind is aerodynamic stability.

Ask yourself why these trailers were low to the ground in the first place.

Crosswinds initiate the majority of loss-of-control accidents. The volume of air allowed under a trailer simply initiates faster rollover.

Second (and almost never discussed) are tripping hazards. Takes very little to upset a trailer at speed. And it isn’t necessarily a pothole. It’s debris from any number of sources. Not something you’ll have time to avoid.

There’s no free lunch in raising a trailer. Go back and note the NOT expensive repair price by Inland Andy.

If the TT goes over, the TV is likely to as well.

Making an AS less stable is akin to using a pickup to pull a 23’. Why? When the result is a less capable combination. All to avoid a problem best solved other ways.

Work with the design advantages. Not against them.

.
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Old 08-06-2018, 10:38 AM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowmover View Post
Making an AS less stable is akin to using a pickup to pull a 23’. Why? When the result is a less capable combination. All to avoid a problem best solved other ways.

Work with the design advantages. Not against them.

.
Slowmover,
I must have to most unstable unit on the planet according to you.
I pull my 23D with a 2500 Diesel pickup. Use a cheap EZ-Lift WD hitch and........ have a homemade built 3” lift kit on the Airstream.
I am amazed that my truck does not need training wheels and that my Airstream does not need wooden sticks to prop it up and keep it from rolling over while parked at camp.
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Old 08-06-2018, 11:57 AM   #135
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2007 27' International CCD FB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowmover View Post
Keeping air away from the underside of the trailer in a crosswind is aerodynamic stability.

Ask yourself why these trailers were low to the ground in the first place.

Crosswinds initiate the majority of loss-of-control accidents. The volume of air allowed under a trailer simply initiates faster rollover.

Second (and almost never discussed) are tripping hazards. Takes very little to upset a trailer at speed. And it isn’t necessarily a pothole. It’s debris from any number of sources. Not something you’ll have time to avoid.

There’s no free lunch in raising a trailer. Go back and note the NOT expensive repair price by Inland Andy.

If the TT goes over, the TV is likely to as well.

Making an AS less stable is akin to using a pickup to pull a 23’. Why? When the result is a less capable combination. All to avoid a problem best solved other ways.

Work with the design advantages. Not against them.

.
Technically, it's not wrong. But again, is there a reason why you like to overstate things? To the point that it frames you as a naysayer rather than a positive contributor?

I've been through really windy situations (40++ mph gusts) on rolling hills, with huge crosswinds coming around hills, channeled by the topography. With my lifted trailer. And lifted relatively short wheelbase, solid rear axle SUV. With an Equalizer WD hitch. All the things you point to as instant death. Sure I felt the wind, as any solo car even would, but it was at no point unstable. Honestly, in lifting the trailer, I never felt a difference in handling. I sure thought I would, as I'm very particular with this stuff, having raced cars and being in touch with feedback through the seats.

So what's the takeaway? As I said, I don't disagree with you. All things equal, a lifted trailer is more susceptible to winds than a lower trailer. An Airstream already has advantages on this vs the sky high box trailer. To your point, I wouldn't do this modification on a marginal towing setup. Perhaps where a tow vehicle is already somewhat unstable, relatively light, or at the very top of its tow capacity.

In my case, I did lift the trailer. Understanding that this is a step towards instability, I made another mod to improve stability. Recognize that my setup has always been very stable. But it's all about margin of stability. And there are many ways to improve that including: proper load-out and tongue weight, proper WD tension, tire air pressures, etc. So in the spirit of maximizing setup stability, I shortened my stinger by 3" to bring the ball closer. Reducing rear overhang, and maximizing my wheelbase for directional stability.
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Old 08-06-2018, 12:22 PM   #136
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Won’t take much. You’re right about that part.

The analysis begins with solo use. You daily carry over 1000-lbs in the bed? Maybe more? What’s the TARE weight, and what’s the adjusted TARE? How did FF/RR weight bias change? (What justifies solo use?).

What is it again when hitched? FALR, or backed down? What percent TW to TT axles (as pickup rear axle is otherwise absolutely reliant on anti-lock).

I had to repack my constantly-loaded 2500 to achieve 50/50. 7,940-lbs and within 40-lbs at all corners. That’s before I’m hitched. I also modified the suspension with anti-roll bar changes. HD aftermarket shocks (A rear Panhard Rod I keep putting off; see Super Steer as it fits yours as well).

That you find it acceptable to worsen the TT performance is . . . ? (Penny-wise and Pound-foolish?).

Consider that I’m not the only one with a far larger rig than can run circles around you. What shouldn’t be with a 35’ against a 23’ (and isn’t with better TV & hitch rigging). You’d roll over before even halfway into the first test.

Talk of skill or habits is laughable. The phrase, pushing your luck, is what applies.

Only takes once. The statistical analogy is always “drunk teenagers with loaded firearms”.

Last chance: what’s the axle-split scale reading? Surely the forward TT axle isn’t heavier either by that method, or by a carpenters level across the entry doorframe. In-bubble. You’re not one of the dozens I see yearly using a one-ton series to drag the AS down the highway hopping on the forward axle, right? As that is default. Thus won’t even slow faster than the TV solo. Thus a real bitch to stop a sway event.

Test what you have. Brake distance, double emergency lane change, etc.

Post up the scale tickets from The Three Pass Method. Get other eyes on the thing to make it as good as can be given handicaps.

Smart ass buys you nothing.

OTOH, let me know when you run my area. I’ll come in close with the KW (but legally) and give you a handful you won’t ever forget. Don’t assign malice where it may not exist. Big trucks can be a handful. Mice get stomped when elephants stampede. It’s just one of many potentials you’ve chosen to make worse. I can describe quite a few others. Seen far more than you ever will. Only takes once.

At present.

Get the scale tickets. Fine-tune. The case where a turd CAN be polished. (A good name for your rig?)

Know any other truck drivers who will pull over to talk with you and offer to accompany you to a CAT Scale? Been there and done that. Other drivers have helped me. As have I still others. Trailer owners are a natural extension.

Several owners here are very good at this stuff. Use that.

.
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Old 08-06-2018, 12:43 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by pteck View Post
Technically, it's not wrong. But again, is there a reason why you like to overstate things? To the point that it frames you as a naysayer rather than a positive contributor?

I've been through really windy situations (40++ mph gusts) on rolling hills, with huge crosswinds coming around hills, channeled by the topography. With my lifted trailer. And lifted relatively short wheelbase, solid rear axle SUV. With an Equalizer WD hitch. All the things you point to as instant death. Sure I felt the wind, as any solo car even would, but it was at no point unstable. Honestly, in lifting the trailer, I never felt a difference in handling. I sure thought I would, as I'm very particular with this stuff, having raced cars and being in touch with feedback through the seats.

So what's the takeaway? As I said, I don't disagree with you. All things equal, a lifted trailer is more susceptible to winds than a lower trailer. An Airstream already has advantages on this vs the sky high box trailer. To your point, I wouldn't do this modification on a marginal towing setup. Perhaps where a tow vehicle is already somewhat unstable, relatively light, or at the very top of its tow capacity.

In my case, I did lift the trailer. Understanding that this is a step towards instability, I made another mod to improve stability. Recognize that my setup has always been very stable. But it's all about margin of stability. And there are many ways to improve that including: proper load-out and tongue weight, proper WD tension, tire air pressures, etc. So in the spirit of maximizing setup stability, I shortened my stinger by 3" to bring the ball closer. Reducing rear overhang, and maximizing my wheelbase for directional stability.
Come on back several decades from now. Add more skill, better habits and a better rig. And explain where worsening the potential did INDEED contribute if not cause the rig to roll. (I’ve been concerned party to that).

Time to react isn’t negotiable. Everyone “thinks” it is. Acts as if.

The ride height (not belly pan, but floor height) is critical. It is not secondary. , but primary.

If it didn’t matter, the factory would have built it higher in the first place.

You never exceed 55-mph in daylight with no traffic so as to justify this high speed with off-road modifications and a poor highway vehicle, correct?

It still won’t “save” you.

All y’all can modify away. Keep those drum brakes, inferior controllers and add bias ply tires. An obsolete hitch. Crap mirrors. Jack it on up. Nothing’s stopping you.

Someone doesn’t like black & white needs to understand that the driver is the wild card. Changes ability every few minutes. No exceptions.



.
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Old 08-07-2018, 09:27 AM   #138
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2013...31’ Classic...I installed a dexter 3”lift kit...with 16”michelins......no difference in handling...with almost 20,000 miles...I like it...
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Old 08-07-2018, 11:15 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by slowmover View Post
Come on back several decades from now. Add more skill, better habits and a better rig. And explain where worsening the potential did INDEED contribute if not cause the rig to roll. (I’ve been concerned party to that).

Time to react isn’t negotiable. Everyone “thinks” it is. Acts as if.

The ride height (not belly pan, but floor height) is critical. It is not secondary. , but primary.

If it didn’t matter, the factory would have built it higher in the first place.

You never exceed 55-mph in daylight with no traffic so as to justify this high speed with off-road modifications and a poor highway vehicle, correct?

It still won’t “save” you.

All y’all can modify away. Keep those drum brakes, inferior controllers and add bias ply tires. An obsolete hitch. Crap mirrors. Jack it on up. Nothing’s stopping you.

Someone doesn’t like black & white needs to understand that the driver is the wild card. Changes ability every few minutes. No exceptions.

.
I like your modesty to presume you have better skills than everyone else here. Must be too much time in that KW stroking your king of the road ego.

So you are allowed to modify your deficient rig by adding ballast, anti-roll bars, shocks…and still missing a pan-hard? Yet you criticize others in their decisions to setup a rig not exactly like yours because they may have other needs?

I can tell you as a legitimate and successful engineer, there's way more than one way to skin a cat. The layman armchair engineering your doing is unnecessarily putting yourself in a box. No one wants to follow you there.
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Old 08-07-2018, 11:29 AM   #140
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Ptek,

Quote: "I like your modesty to presume you have better skills than everyone else here. Must be too much time in that KW stroking your king of the road ego"

You like slowmover's "modesty" and I sincety like your dry whit and sense of humor!!!
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