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03-01-2008, 04:04 PM
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#21
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2 Rivet Member
1962 16' Bambi
Merritt Island
, Florida
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 50
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Andy, taking two simple measurements is well worth 400 bucks. My Bambi did pretty good for 46 years on the old, outdated, under-rated axle and the installation will allow me to indulge in perfectionism, so I think it will be OK.
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03-01-2008, 08:03 PM
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#22
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Rivet Master
Currently Looking...
Colville
, Washington
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,033
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C Ray
Hey thanks, I will have to weld mine on to the torsion arm but I'm not sure if the original ones will be long enough because I am upgrading the original 2500# to 2800# and from 22.5 deg. to 25 deg. all this may add up to getting a new set of longer brackets. At least I will be able to measure the old one and repeat the same angle. So, Here's what I ordered.
#10 torsion axle, down-rated to 2800#
Straight beam (with standard toe and camber bends)
74" Hub-face to Hub-face
58" Outside Frame width
Reverse orientation
Side mount hangars
25 deg. down
Electric brakes
10" hubs (5 lugs on 4 and 1/2 centers)
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Also... Drop the side mount hangers - they are extra and unneeded.
__________________
AIR 12256
Currently Looking
2001 Dodge Ram 1500
2001 Honda XR650R
Currently Looking...for an Avion Truck Camper (or a Classic Argosy MoHo)
"In regione caecorum rex est luscus." GP
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03-01-2008, 10:13 PM
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#23
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3 Rivet Member
1965 17' Caravel
Mountainous
, Utah
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 203
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Andy,
I measured my axle's width between the brackets twice. Once with the load of the trailer and once with the trailer jacked up and unweighted. The load measurement was 58" the unloaded measurement was 57.75". I called Dexter and the tech told me to use the unloaded measurement because that's how they manufacture them. I took his word for it and if he turns to be wrong the axle will still fit with two 1/8" shims. Better slightly narrower than wider and unusable.
As for the axle weight rating, the Henschen axle on it now was stamped at 3000 lbs. I was thinking the interior is going to weight more when I'm done redoing it plus two batties and two 30 lb. propane tanks and spare tire on the tongue, the air conditioner and a little extra for storage convinced me to add 500 more pounds to the stock axle. Please tell me why this is not a good idea. I am open to informed suggestions by those of much greater knowledge than I.
Dan
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03-02-2008, 07:09 AM
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#24
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Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
Corona
, California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheridan
Andy,
I measured my axle's width between the brackets twice. Once with the load of the trailer and once with the trailer jacked up and unweighted. The load measurement was 58" the unloaded measurement was 57.75". I called Dexter and the tech told me to use the unloaded measurement because that's how they manufacture them. I took his word for it and if he turns to be wrong the axle will still fit with two 1/8" shims. Better slightly narrower than wider and unusable.
As for the axle weight rating, the Henschen axle on it now was stamped at 3000 lbs. I was thinking the interior is going to weight more when I'm done redoing it plus two batties and two 30 lb. propane tanks and spare tire on the tongue, the air conditioner and a little extra for storage convinced me to add 500 more pounds to the stock axle. Please tell me why this is not a good idea. I am open to informed suggestions by those of much greater knowledge than I.
Dan
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The mounting bracket dimension is 57 7/8 inches, not 57 3/4 inches.
According to Airstream and Henschen, the 1965 Caravel frame "could be damaged" if the axle rating exceeded 3000 pounds.
We had tests done with a 3200 pound axle, that clearly showed "do not exceed."
Of course, if you wish, you can beef up the chassis.
Andy
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03-02-2008, 08:02 AM
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#25
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3 Rivet Member
1965 17' Caravel
Mountainous
, Utah
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 203
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Thanks Andy,
I can live with 1/16 short on each side of the mounting brackets.
I will call Dexter and see if I can change the weight rating, if not, I'll reinforce the frame which may not be a bad idea since I am planing to do a lot of bouncing around in the boondocks.
Thank you for the advice, sincerely,
Dan
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03-03-2008, 08:40 AM
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#26
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3 Rivet Member
1965 17' Caravel
Mountainous
, Utah
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 203
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Update
I called my Dexter distributor this morning and changed the weight rating on the axle I ordered to 3000 lbs. (which was what was stamped on the original Henschen axle for my 65 Caravel). Thanks to Andy from Inland RV for explaining the domino theory of stiffer axle = more frame stress = more headaches. The irony is that Andy helped me order a competitors axle. He also took the opportunity to point out his alternative to people who don't want the trouble and responsibility of ordering an axle.
Quote:
The advantage of using the original brand as a replacement, is that you can have a starting angle of 35 degrees, have 12 inch brakes if you wish, and not have to worry about any fitting problems, or under/over rated axles.
While costs are important, it is not everything to many owners, especially when they must assume "all" the risks of errors, since they are providing the specs, as opposed to just providing the trailer serial number, that assures them of a perfect fit.
Andy
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So for you 65 Caravel owners, here are my final axle order specs:
Dexter "Torflex Axle"
#10 torsion axle 3000lb. cambered (slightly curved)
74.5" Hub face to Hub face.
57.7/8" Outside bracket to Outside bracket.
Reverse orientation, side mount, low profile, brackets.
22.5 degrees down, trailing arm.
Electric brakes
Grease bearings (not EZ-lube or oil)
5 lugs on 4.5" centers.
I am planning on cutting the vertical shock mounts off of the old trailing arms and welding them to the new axle and buying new shocks.
I'll post again if anything "interesting" comes up during the installation process.
Dan
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03-06-2008, 10:49 AM
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#27
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3 Rivet Member
1965 17' Caravel
Mountainous
, Utah
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 203
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Andy,
The weight rating on my axle is 3000 lbs. and you told me
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In
According to Airstream and Henschen, the 1965 Caravel frame "could be damaged" if the axle rating exceeded 3000 pounds.
We had tests done with a 3200 pound axle, that clearly showed "do not exceed."
Of course, if you wish, you can beef up the chassis.
Andy
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So why are you telling Barkingdogg
Quote:
3200 pounds is a good upgrade.
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03-06-2008, 11:01 AM
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#28
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Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
Corona
, California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheridan
Andy,
The weight rating on my axle is 3000 lbs. and you told me
So why are you telling Barkingdogg
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You can install a 3200 pound axle on a Caravel, safely.
You can also install a 3500 pound axle, IF the trailer will ALWAYS carry a heavy payload.
A long time ago, we said "do not exceed" 3000 pounds.
In field tests determine that an increase is OK.
Andy
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03-06-2008, 11:15 AM
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#29
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3 Rivet Member
1965 17' Caravel
Mountainous
, Utah
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 203
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So that was just a little mis-information when you told me last week
Quote:
According to Airstream and Henschen, the 1965 Caravel frame "could be damaged" if the axle rating exceeded 3000 pounds.
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Maybe it was influenced by the fact that you knew I had ordered my axle from Dexter for $324. Now the information is changing. I hope it's not because Barkingdogg was intending to order through you.
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03-06-2008, 12:10 PM
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#30
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Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
Corona
, California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheridan
So that was just a little mis-information when you told me last week
Maybe it was influenced by the fact that you knew I had ordered my axle from Dexter for $324. Now the information is changing. I hope it's not because Barkingdogg was intending to order through you.
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Unfortunately, I am not perfect, and can and do make mistakes.
The only perfect people I know, are in a grave, someplace.
Someone said that they could get a "complete axle" for $250.00. But they wouldn't say from who.
Andy
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03-06-2008, 01:30 PM
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#31
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3 Rivet Member
1965 17' Caravel
Mountainous
, Utah
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 203
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Andy,
My old axle lasted 43 years. If my new on lasts that long.....
Quote:
The only perfect people I know, are in a grave, someplace.
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we'll both be "perfect".
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05-28-2008, 10:29 AM
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#32
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1 Rivet Member
1966 17' Caravel
south lyon
, Michigan
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 9
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New axle for '65 Caravel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheridan
So for you 65 Caravel owners, here are my final axle order specs:
Dexter "Torflex Axle"
#10 torsion axle 3000lb. cambered (slightly curved)
74.5" Hub face to Hub face.
57.7/8" Outside bracket to Outside bracket.
Reverse orientation, side mount, low profile, brackets.
22.5 degrees down, trailing arm.
Electric brakes
Grease bearings (not EZ-lube or oil)
5 lugs on 4.5" centers.
I am planning on cutting the vertical shock mounts off of the old trailing arms and welding them to the new axle and buying new shocks.
I'll post again if anything "interesting" comes up during the installation process.
Dan
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Dan, how has the installation gone? Are you happy with the final spec for the axle? I'm about to order one for my '65 Caravel, and I'd like to take advantage of your experience.
Bob
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05-29-2008, 07:42 PM
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#33
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3 Rivet Member
1965 17' Caravel
Mountainous
, Utah
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 203
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bobtrem,
This is what I learned from my axle installation:
You don't need the side mount bracket, unless you want to order the one that raises the trailer 1 inch higher which is preferable to increasing the down angle to gain trailer hight. Your trailer will raise about 2 inches with a new axle alone.
Take the backing plate off (four nuts) to drill the holes from the pre-drilled holes on your mounting bracket, through the bracket that is welded to the Dexter axle. Drilling from the wheel well in is much easier.
I bought new shocks from Andy at Inland RV and was surprised to find that they were sent with no hardware (nuts and washers). It amounts to about two bucks worth of hardware that's included with every shock I've ever bought in my life. The money saved on this transaction is a fraction of the resentment I have for such a cheap move.
A local welder cut the old shock mounts off my old axle and welded them to the new axle for less than $100.
I used Pro-15 on the mounting bracket prior to installing the new axle.
My Dexter axle cost $325 with no shipping charge (it was drop shipped to a near by distributor where I picked it up).
Measure accurately. From the inside of one mounting bracket to the inside of the other should be about 57 7/8".
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05-30-2008, 11:48 AM
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#34
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1 Rivet Member
1966 17' Caravel
south lyon
, Michigan
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 9
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Thanks Dan,
I appreciate the quick reply.
My dealer (who will also install it) doesn't understand why anyone would put a shock on a trailer with a Torflex axle. It's my call. What's your rationale for doing it? Also, what exactly is the side mount bracket and under what conditions would you need it? From your photo, it looks completely superfluous.
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05-30-2008, 12:09 PM
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#35
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Patriotic
1973 23' Safari
North of Boston
, Massachusetts
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,546
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the bracket is for mounting the axle to the underside of a frame channel. Since the airstream has a mounting plate already welded to the side of the frame channel, and it hangs down beneath the frame and has a square cutout there to accept such an axel, the bracket isn't needed.
imagine if you were gonna make a homemade trailer out of some frame members....you'd need to weld "something" on the underside to bolt the torflex axle to. So you could weld that bracket on, then you'd bolt the axle to it.
as for "shocks"...experts dont' seem to agree on the necessity.
__________________
Air:291
Wbcci: 3752
'73 Safari 23'
'00 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4 QC
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05-30-2008, 05:53 PM
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#36
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3 Rivet Member
1965 17' Caravel
Mountainous
, Utah
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 203
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Nice explanation of the side mount bracket Chuck, I only wish I had found this information before I ordered my axle. Since the axle measurement included the side mount bracket, I installed them and now refer to them as "heavy duty shims".
bobtrem: As far as needing shocks, I wanted to duplicate the original set up for this trailer. I think the whole idea of having a torflex axle and shocks is to create the softest ride possible so that the unified frame and body structure is impacted with very little stress. This is also the reason you don't want to over-rate your axle, making it stiffer by increasing the weight rating to anything over 3200 lbs. The stock rating for your trailer is 3000 lbs.
Dan
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05-30-2008, 06:15 PM
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#37
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Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
Corona
, California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheridan
I bought new shocks from Andy at Inland RV and was surprised to find that they were sent with no hardware (nuts and washers). It amounts to about two bucks worth of hardware that's included with every shock I've ever bought in my life. The money saved on this transaction is a fraction of the resentment I have for such a cheap move.
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We don't make cheap moves, on anyone.
However, we do sell the Airstream shocks, cheaper than any dealer, so I suppose that's a cheap shot, too.
Airstream "DOES NOT" supply hardware with any shocks that they have sold in over 60 years.
Perhaps you should write them and point out that in your opinion, they made a cheap move.
We don't toss in tires, just because someone bought a wheel.
We don't toss in a trailer, just because someone bought an axle, either.
How you mounted your axle, is far different than Airstream engineers have done for years.
On the other hand, to each his own.
Wish you many years enjoyment with your new "sort of fitting correctly" axle.
Andy
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05-30-2008, 07:09 PM
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#38
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Tom O
1966 17' Caravel
Altadena
, California
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 172
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I have watched this thread for several months, while worrying that the axle on my '65 Caravel had reached it's end. After mulling over the project and seeing how much time and energy could be spent reinventing the axle I called Inland RV. They had a shipment of axles enroute which had a correct axle for our trailer. I decided to take the plunge and a week later I got a call relating that my axle had arrived. The following Monday I towed the trailer to Corona, expecting the axle to fail with every pothole and bump. The installation was completed before 2pm and I picked it up the next morning. I do look for value or a good way to save money when I am fixing my toys. I also value my time and appreciate knowing that I had the job done correctly. For some strange reason the trailer actually tows noticably better with the new axle.
I paid more but I also value my time and got to spend it in ways more productive to me. From my point of view I received a very good value for my money. I have also found the folks at Inland RV dispense excellent advice with or without a purchase.
To each his own...
__________________
"Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges!"
CA-7
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05-30-2008, 07:46 PM
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#39
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Rivet Master
Currently Looking...
Colville
, Washington
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,033
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toldfield
...I paid more but I also value my time and got to spend it in ways more productive to me. From my point of view I received a very good value for my money.
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Aye there's the rub!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toldfield
To each his own...
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And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,
altho' one would seek to deny us that right and castigate those who seek an alternate path.
__________________
AIR 12256
Currently Looking
2001 Dodge Ram 1500
2001 Honda XR650R
Currently Looking...for an Avion Truck Camper (or a Classic Argosy MoHo)
"In regione caecorum rex est luscus." GP
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05-30-2008, 08:26 PM
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#40
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3 Rivet Member
1965 17' Caravel
Mountainous
, Utah
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In
We don't make cheap moves, on anyone.
However, we do sell the Airstream shocks, cheaper than any dealer, so I suppose that's a cheap shot, too.
Airstream "DOES NOT" supply hardware with any shocks that they have sold in over 60 years.
Perhaps you should write them and point out that in your opinion, they made a cheap move.
We don't toss in tires, just because someone bought a wheel.
We don't toss in a trailer, just because someone bought an axle, either.
How you mounted your axle, is far different than Airstream engineers have done for years.
On the other hand, to each his own.
Wish you many years enjoyment with your new "sort of fitting correctly" axle.
Andy
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Andy,
Even if Airstream doesn't include the nuts and washers with there shocks, it may be better customer service to raise the price of your shocks by two dollars and include the hardware which saves the buyer a trip to the store for a few minor items to finish the job. Of course that would be putting the customer first. Remember Andy, I bought my shocks from you, I am your customer and because I was legitimately surprised by the lack of mounting hardware is no reason to berate me publicly for how I mounted my axle. By the way, my axle is mounted with the same four bolts as your would have been, if it weren't more than twice the cost. Oops! I guess we're both capable of cheap shots. Sorry.
Sheridan
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