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Old 07-26-2007, 01:09 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gkiesel
I infer from your response that they were purchased from you. The reason I ask is that I am considering replacing my axles, but the cost of your Henschens is quite high you must admit. It was not too many years ago that dealer cost on the henschens was in the 400-500 dollar range. Prices go up, and I am not trying to accuse anybody of anything. Don't misunderstand. It's just that given the cost of the axles, plus shipping to the east coast, I have to consider other options.
Airstream is using Dexter now, for about the last three years, I would give them a call. In addition to being the largest supplier of Torsion axles in the USA - they also have 300 service centers. Additionally, they would charge around $500 per axle and shipping would be minimized due to one of the 300 service centers being close to you!

Smiles,
Henry
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Old 07-26-2007, 08:57 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markdoane
Dave, may I ask how you corrected the drum that was off that much?
And a follow up question: how much out would they be before you send them back to the dealer?

I'm asking because I balanced two 12" Dexter drums. They were less than 1.5 oz out of balance.
Markdoan,

All the of the drums were way out there (all were more than 5.5 oz.) the worst of the four was actually more than 7 ounces out. I utilized a vendor of mine that does high speed dynamic balancing for me, and they poured lead into the pockets on the face of the drum and then overfilled them with epoxi. You can see my pictures on "Axle replacement I" and also on II. I really could not send them back due to time and distance not to mention I really needed them in the trailor so we could camp. I have not as of yet recieved any apology from the dealer or manufacturer for the inconvenience and added cost to make them right. I had planned on getting them precision balanced anyway for my own piece of mind so I guess the cost is no hudge deal, but I would like to know what the manufactureing spec is on the print, and of course if QC checked them how did they get out the door?
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Old 07-26-2007, 10:45 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axleman
Airstream is using Dexter now, for about the last three years, I would give them a call. In addition to being the largest supplier of Torsion axles in the USA - they also have 300 service centers. Additionally, they would charge around $500 per axle and shipping would be minimized due to one of the 300 service centers being close to you!

Smiles,
Henry
Documentation of those statements would be nice.

Andy
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Old 07-26-2007, 10:53 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drag'nwagon
The new drums were out 7 ounces.
I have not really followed your other threads so this probably is an obvious answer to the following question:
Where in the WORLD did you get new drums that were THAT far out of balance?
You would think NEW drums would be a heck of a lot closer than that!
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Old 07-27-2007, 07:00 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drag'nwagon
. . I have not as of yet received any apology from the dealer or manufacturer for the inconvenience and added cost to make them right. .
Dave,

I'm just seeing red .

Why would someone like you, who obviously cares a lot about his equipment, be stuck with someones junky seconds.

They should have been sent to someone who doesn't care about running gear balance.

Good job getting them fixed.
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Old 07-27-2007, 08:23 AM   #26
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Oop's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In
Documentation of those statements would be nice.

Andy
Andy,

Maybe you were asking about the Dexter Service Centers/Distributers, in that case, simply go to:

Dexter Axle - Trailer Axles and Running Gear Components - HOME



Smiles,
Henry
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Old 07-27-2007, 09:12 AM   #27
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Bashing usually comes from people that are "PERFECT," or at least they feel they are.

Since I am a long way away from being perfect, I wonder what that feeling is like?

My friends don't feel their perfect, so I can't ask them.

And certainly, without a doubt, my family is a loooooong way from being perfect, so I can't ask any of them either.

I have a Doctor's appointment this morning, maybe he will know.

Andy
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Old 07-27-2007, 09:37 AM   #28
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Lou and Markdoan,

I was pretty shocked as well that they were out that far. I have read a lot about running gear balance and have listened to Andy R about this, and therefore I decided before I ever picked them up to get them balanced. I am a precision diamond and cbn tool maker that supports multiple engine lines and as well as high precision high speed superabrasive grinding wheels. I use a particular vendor to perform the dynamic balancing of these products and I trust them. The vendor I used also does the balancing for brake rotors for ROUSCH racing and the BIG 3's Nascar programs, I know that they know exactly what they are doing. I am not concerned so much with the cost of this as much as I am the rhetoric of balancing and then not offering tighter specs on new OEM replacement product specifically for AS. as I said I am not concerned with what I got as I had planned to do this anyway and hold no bad feelings against anyone, I am a manufacturer and I get it, but has anybody checked quality lately?
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Old 07-27-2007, 12:59 PM   #29
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Dexter axle dealers/distributors/service centers

California has listed 17 company names.

15 are dealers.

7 do service as well.

2 are distributors.

We all know that Dexter is number one.

We all know that Alko/Hayes is number two.

We all know that Henschen is some other lesser number.

That has been stated a number of times.

NOW,can we got on with the real purpose of this site, and make positive contributions towards the Airstream community and it's product owners.

Granted, to some, sitting back and being a fault finding expert, offers little to the best interests of forum members.

All it does, is waste space and create negative controversy.

According to a select few, AIRSTREAM must have been very stupid for using Henschen axles for over 40 years. According to them, all other torsion axle manufacturers build cheaper products than Henschen. Of course, they fail to mention quality. So why did Airstream chose Henschen, that costs more? Easy answer. Airstream insists on top quality components.

The recent change Airstream made to Dexter, has nothing to do with price or quality, but does have to do with Corporate bickering.

By the same token, Dexter and Alko have a very limited background with the Airstream products. They certainly are far from being an expert, especially when they insist that 10 inch brakes are ok on a 31 foot Airstream. HUH???

There are several other lesser know torsion axle suppliers, that are even less knowledgeable about the true workings of a monocoque shell. They may be axle experts, but that is as far as they can go.

There are a couple of torsion axle manufacturers that will not build an axle for an Airstream product, simply because they don't want to get involved with the changes necessary in order for their axles to fit properly, or have the Airstream type quality of construction.

Andy
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Old 07-27-2007, 01:45 PM   #30
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Andy, I agree, let's get on with the true purpose of the forum. It would seem the issue of axles, as simple as they may be, evoke strong opinions on both sides. Your a good guy, I've had good expierience dealing with you and your staff. You sell a good product. As the sole supplier of Henschens, I believe that some will always view you as a bit of a target. Don't let them get you down. When my time come to buy, I will do my research and decide what I feel is the best product for my budget and ability.
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Old 07-27-2007, 02:23 PM   #31
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alright folks. [mod had /on]


lets take a deep breath.






that is all.
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Old 07-27-2007, 04:15 PM   #32
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Bolt in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gkiesel
Nice Job! Which brand of Axle did you use?
As Andy said they were Henschlen and a direct bolt in. They aligned without adjustment.

I supplied Andy the trailer model and plate info. We talked about how I loaded and traveled, that related to weight ratio. I travel heavy (full water tank and heater-not black water though)...it keeps the center of gravity lower.

I had additional questions for Andy about doing it myself. I was a bit shaky about it as I am somewhat disabled by a few spinal surgeries knees etc. After my conversation with Andy I felt it was something to try myself. It went smoother than I thought it would go. It is sort of another renovation feather for the cap! .

I did check out Dexters as I had used them many years ago on a cargo trailer. I think they make an excellent product. The Henschlen is made for the Airstream and required no modification, thus less chance of an error and no drilling holes that may cause alignment adjustments to be made. after modification costs the numbers were not all that far apart and (in my mind!) did not justify were not worth it when I could do a simple bolt in.

Andy went through the entire procedure with me. The shipping was not too bad though I do not remember what it was. The axels were drop shipped from Ohio, saved quite a bit there. While I will not argue the merits of one or anothr with the axel experts, as a shade tree mechanic type I feel the route I took gave me the best results and the highest value for my $$'s.
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Old 07-28-2007, 06:57 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by drag'nwagon
I was pretty shocked as well that they were out that far.

I am not concerned so much with the cost of this as much as I am the rhetoric of balancing and then not offering tighter specs on new OEM replacement product specifically for AS. As I said I am not concerned with what I got as I had planned to do this anyway and hold no bad feelings against anyone, I am a manufacturer and I get it, but has anybody checked quality lately?
You mean to tell me this is the Airstream "OEM" supplier? NO WAY would I accept that from an OEM. The amounts that you were off by were astronomical for the price you paid.
When I had the running gear checked on the Minuet, after the axle/drum replacement, I was out by a maximum of 3/4 oz.
As for checking quality, here at GM Powertrain, we have error-proofing. This means that each and every process is checked at a rate of 100%. Every machined, ground, turned and assembled part is checked. Sure, things get by but your quality issue with your drums is no where near the scope that we have here at the plant. We make 1,500 transmissions/day. How many axles did the "OEM" ship?
Boy, am I glad I went the way I did on my axle/drum replacement. That also tells me where I am going to go for the Sovereign too.
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Old 07-28-2007, 08:36 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by pattersontoo
As for checking quality, here at GM Powertrain, we have error-proofing. This means that each and every process is checked at a rate of 100%. Every machined, ground, turned and assembled part is checked. .
I've found that almost every vendor I use has some form or other of error-proofing. It's not just GM and GE and Medtronic anymore, it reaches down to the smallest manufacturers.

You need to have process qualification and validation if you are going to compete with asian manufacturers. Otherwise, you might as well sell junk like China.
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Old 07-30-2007, 11:23 AM   #35
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Exactly my point.
Error-proofing is so common nowadays it is surprising that something like this is allowed to happen.
If we wind up with one transmission that is missing even a part tracking stamp on a certain component, the whole shipment is quarantined.
No one is playing games with process control and product tracking any longer. It is no laughing matter when it comes to competing with the highly inferior, yet half the cost, Chinese manufacturers.
When I hear of an American OEM letting something like this slide by them it ticks me off.
Dave-I would not have been so forgiving.
I guess you have to be aware of what you are getting and use your own good judgment when replacing anything on your Airstream.
I myself would have gone right to the purchasing source and demanded satisfaction. I do not care who made the drums. I just know who I bought it from. When you buy a new GM vehicle and you have a problem with a tire you still go back to the GM dealership, not Goodyear.
Dave-be sure to show me your, "no modifications required" replacement axle at the rally this weekend. I cannot wait to see it!
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Old 07-30-2007, 11:43 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by pattersontoo
Exactly my point.
Error-proofing is so common nowadays it is surprising that something like this is allowed to happen.
If we wind up with one transmission that is missing even a part tracking stamp on a certain component, the whole shipment is quarantined.
No one is playing games with process control and product tracking any longer. It is no laughing matter when it comes to competing with the highly inferior, yet half the cost, Chinese manufacturers.
When I hear of an American OEM letting something like this slide by them it ticks me off.
Dave-I would not have been so forgiving.
The time has come to post the Axis Henschen comparison, in our web site, and stop the unjustified negative bashingof Henschen.


Laboratory tests more than prove that.

They did that so well, that they quit making axles for Airstream and Argosy trailers.




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Old 07-30-2007, 12:02 PM   #37
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Easy Does It Fellas

This is what is so good about the airforums.
You guys believe it what you say so very much. However, sometimes you do not see that the other guy has the right to an opinion, even if he is wrong.
My wife says I am wrong a lot. Even God says I am wrong most of the time.
But I still like Airstreams, respect you guys and appreciate the opinions on the forums.

R
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Old 07-30-2007, 04:33 PM   #38
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I can't find the lab tests

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In
The time has come to post the Axis Henschen comparison, in our web site, and stop the unjustified negative bashingof Henschen. ... you find fault with anything and everything about a Henschen axle, "yet you purchased axles for your Argosy from a company that manufactured sub standard quality axles."

Laboratory tests more than prove that...
Since the moderators have neither modified nor removed the post quoted above, I have to ask:
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomW
Andy, Where's the beef?
I just checked InlandRV.com, and the last new information on axles was posted June 5, 2002. Where is the comparison between axle brands located?

Thanks,
Tom
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Old 07-30-2007, 06:46 PM   #39
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This comparison might have been based off of a single axle purchased from me - back in the day when I was at Axis!

Interesting note - Dexter started Axis!

Regards,
Henry
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Old 08-01-2007, 01:12 PM   #40
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Easy does it, folks.
We've all pretty much been over the same info repeatedly. If you do a forums search on axles, you can get all this info from other posts, without raising everyone's blood pressure.
Bottom line is, both companies make good quality products, the main difference is if you want to pay more for basically a direct fit unit, or save some money and make the modifications to the competitor's unit. And that decision should be left to the person either buying or installing the axles. They, and only they, know their limitations.
'Nuff said.
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