RV News RVBusiness 2021 Top 10 RVs of the Year, plus 56 additional debuts and must-see units → ×
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 12-20-2007, 09:23 PM   #1
1 Rivet Member
 
1969 27' Overlander
Pensacola , Florida
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 9
Bearing race question for the experts.

I am in the process of changing wheel bearings. After pressing the new outboard race into the hub, the race spins. This didn't seem right, so I asked my dad for advice. Sure enough, he says bearing races aren't supposed to spin. He called a friend who advised us to use a cold chisel to check mark around the area where the race sits. This will add significant friction to the area and keep the race from spinning. Sounds like it will work, but I would like to get a few opinions. So...what do you guys think?

Merry Christmas,
Jim Showers
PensacolaJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2007, 10:02 PM   #2
Site Team
 
, Minnesota
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,596
Images: 59
The method you describe is a great shadetree technique. A machinist would chuck it up on a lathe and use a knurling tool.

I would use either method, if new drums weren't so inexpensive.
markdoane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2007, 10:25 PM   #3
Rivet Master
 
Jim Foster's Avatar
 
1965 17' Caravel
1983 27' Excella
Walnut Grove/Laguna Woods , California
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,635
Send a message via Yahoo to Jim Foster
A center punch will do the same thing. Makes little craters. As the punch goes into the cast iron, some of the material is lifted out around the edge of the hole. Every 1/4 inch or so, perhaps two rows offset. Should work just fine.
Jim Foster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2007, 12:02 AM   #4
Rivet Master
 
ROBERTSUNRUS's Avatar

 
2005 25' Safari
Salem , Oregon
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,059
Images: 18
Blog Entries: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Foster
A center punch will do the same thing. Makes little craters. As the punch goes into the cast iron, some of the material is lifted out around the edge of the hole. Every 1/4 inch or so, perhaps two rows offset. Should work just fine.
Hi, I call this a Mickey Mouse repair, but in a pinch, [parts or money not readily available] we used to use the center punch method, punching randomly all around the race area and install race with red loctite. This will work, but first, check to see if the old race had spun in the hub or that the new race is the correct size. Was the old race tight when you drove it out? If so double check everything before trying this fix.
__________________
Bob

2005 Safari 25-B
"Le Petit Chateau Argent"
[ Small Silver Castle ]
2000 Navigator / 2014 F-150 Eco-Boost / Equal-i-zer / P-3
YAMAHA 2400 / AIR #12144
ROBERTSUNRUS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2007, 12:18 AM   #5
2 Rivet Member
 
2005 28' Safari
Mono City , California
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 66
Bearings that have spun in their bores, is usually caused by improper adjustment, contaminated lube that doesn't allow the bearing to rotate, old age or the vehicle is operated over-loaded. The best repair is always a new part. I have worked on commerical trucks for many years, and have seen bearing bores center punched, as stated above, it is a shade tree type of repair. All you end up with is a bunch of little high spots trying to hold the bearing in place. Under load the high spots beat down and the bearing spins again. even if adjusted correctly and lube is clean. If cost of the new part is a problem, use one of these Loctite products, 638 retaining compound, my first choice and 2nd would be Loctite 603. They will do a much better job of holding the bearing race in place. Keep everything clean and adjust the bearings correctly, .001 to .005 of end-play would work. Good Luck
TBSarfari28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2007, 09:45 PM   #6
1 Rivet Member
 
1969 27' Overlander
Pensacola , Florida
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 9
Thanks for the great advice. I went with the cold chisel and red loctite method (a new drum costs 75 dollars in Pensacola.) I really appreciate the way you responded so quickly. This is twice that I've asked the forum for advice and gotten the same wonderful response each time.

Merry Christmas ,

Jim
PensacolaJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2007, 10:25 PM   #7
Rivet Master
 
Excella CM's Avatar
 
1978 31' Excella 500
Venice , California
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,066
You can bed the race in lead wool.
__________________
"Not all who are laundering are washed" say Bill & Heidi

'78 Excella 500,"The Silver Pullit". vacuum over hydraulic disc brakes, center bath, rear twin. '67 Travelall 1200 B 4X4 WBCCI 3737
Excella CM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2007, 06:03 AM   #8
Rivet Master
 
1977 31' Sovereign
1963 26' Overlander
1989 34' Excella
Johnsburg , Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,943
I can not concure with the lead wool approach. You can not guarentee it will properly retain the alignment the bearing. I am not sure you want to use Red Loctite, if you ever want to get the bearing race out some time in the future. Ask the local bearing guy if blue grade would be enough. I have used red grade to replace welding in the past for OEM driveshaft assembly. If you have to replace the roller bearing element, you should replace the race at the same time as the angles can vary a little from manufacturer to manufacturer and that can lead to premature failure.
dwightdi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2007, 06:16 AM   #9
Rivet Master
 
overlander63's Avatar
 
1993 21' Sovereign
Colfax , North Carolina
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,254
Here we have two versions of red Loctite, low strength and high strength.
Low strength red would be more than enough, while little short of a plasma cutter will remove the race if you use high strength.
__________________
Terry
overlander63 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2007, 10:11 AM   #10
Rivet Master
 
Janets Husband's Avatar
 
1977 Argosy Minuet 6.0 Metre
1964 26' Overlander
1977 25' Tradewind
Eastern , Washington
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 865
Images: 6
Check

Uh... I've got to ask a question. Why is the race spinning in the hub?
This is not a normal condition, with the proper race and an undamaged hub. I would want to find out the reason for the loose fit. I would suggest that you might want to bring it to a machine shop to find out what is going on with the hub, cracked, beat out, overheated...
__________________
Peace
Gary
Janets Husband is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2007, 03:15 PM   #11
4 Rivet Member
 
ctdair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 332
Images: 3
Agree with Janetshusband why is it spinning? Wrong parts? bad hub? If going the locktite routine, I dont recall the number but green stud and bearing retainer would be the one to use.
__________________
"Forbidden Wheels Clubhouse Recon Team"
S/OS #010
2004 30ft Slide Out with Hensley Arrow hitch.
Pulled by a 2019 F350 Superduty Limited.
ctdair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2007, 03:29 PM   #12
Rivet Master
 
garry's Avatar
 
1969 31' Sovereign
Broken Arrow , Oklahoma
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,455
Images: 7
I have to go with the "why is it spinning" crowd. While there are ways to get around a problem you may be fixing a sympton and not a cause.
Could be you have a new race & bearing that is out of spec.
If you do the quick fix remember a spinning race can cause a complete axle failure so make sure you get it right.

Garry

Garry
garry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2007, 04:41 PM   #13
Rivet Master
 
Excella CM's Avatar
 
1978 31' Excella 500
Venice , California
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,066
As several others have pointed out by now, notwithstanding that there are several ways to tighten a bearing race in the drum or hub assembly, they should ALL be considered stop-gap solutions. Bearing races are a "press' fit, period(the press could be a hammer and a brass drift). If you cannot get an oversize hub recess welded up and recut to size, then replace it.
__________________
"Not all who are laundering are washed" say Bill & Heidi

'78 Excella 500,"The Silver Pullit". vacuum over hydraulic disc brakes, center bath, rear twin. '67 Travelall 1200 B 4X4 WBCCI 3737
Excella CM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2007, 05:28 PM   #14
Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
 
Inland RV Center, In's Avatar
 
Corona , California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
Images: 1
Safety

I cannot imagine anyone wanting to "dimple fit" a race in place.

Surely they would have absolutely "NO" regard for their safety or anyone else.

A lost wheel, locked wheel and the like, can and "DOES" cause roll overs and absolute "LOSS OF CONTROL."

GUARANTEED

Andy
__________________
Andy Rogozinski
Inland RV Center
Corona, CA
Inland RV Center, In is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2007, 06:47 PM   #15
2 Rivet Member
 
jfowler218's Avatar
 
2007 31' Classic
Bend , Oregon
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 76
Images: 1
Never use a punch or chisel to seat a bearing. A properly installed bearing should never spin but it should creep!! very slowly. Loctite can be acceptable in some applications. If you do not properly repair a spinning bearing race you will sonn have even worse problems.
50 years in the bearing business.
jfowler218 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2007, 08:56 PM   #16
Rivet Master
 
Royce's Avatar
 
1977 Argosy Minuet 6.0 Metre
Colorado Springs , Colorado
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 733
Images: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfowler218
Never use a punch or chisel to seat a bearing. A properly installed bearing should never spin but it should creep!! very slowly. Loctite can be acceptable in some applications. If you do not properly repair a spinning bearing race you will sonn have even worse problems.
50 years in the bearing business.
I was not aware that a race should creep. Could you explain the reason for the creep?
__________________
Royce (K0RKK) 146.460 simplex
Web page https://spearfishcreek.net/
AIR# 3913
'77' Minuet 6 Metre, behind a 2005 stock Jeep Rubicon with Equa-L-Zer hitch.
Royce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2007, 09:23 PM   #17
Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
 
Inland RV Center, In's Avatar
 
Corona , California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Royce
I was not aware that a race should creep. Could you explain the reason for the creep?
Worn out drums allow the race to move, well really the hub part.

Over tightening of the bearing retainer nut, can in time, cause the race to start moving within the hub.

When that takes place, the hub and drum is finished.

To try and save the drum, is absolutely foolish.

Sometimes, like with the old vintage trailers that used small bearings, drums are no longer available.

If that's the case, then an axle replacement is necessary.

To avoid that issue, or to try to "beat the system" would be the absolute height of foolishness, once a race becomes loose in a hub.

Bearings, drums, races, axles, all can be bought.

Lives "CANNOT" be bought, at any price.

Once a race becomes loose, bite the bullet and correct the problem, properly.

Once a race becomes loose, you cannot, no matter what method you use, make sure that the race is "exactly centered."

That being the case, vibrations can quickly take place, causing further failures, faster than you think.

Safety procedures and practices, gives a person great comfort and a great distance from that human grave yard.

Lack of safety or ignoring it, shortens that distance, "FAST."

BE SAFE, ALWAYS.

If you cannot afford the repair, then for your sake and others, get rid of the trailer.

Andy
__________________
Andy Rogozinski
Inland RV Center
Corona, CA
Inland RV Center, In is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2007, 09:53 PM   #18
4 Rivet Member
 
RBolton's Avatar
 
Belington , West Virginia
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 304
I know what bearing creep is and I have seen evidence of it on different assemblies, either the outer ring creeping in the housing or an inner ring creeping on a shaft. I have successfully replaced bearings with sufficient interference (tight) fit where creep has occurred. But, I have never felt that a bearing should creep. If Jim's original bearing spun in the housing, it probably crept first.

I'm with Andy. The hub on a trailer is not a good place for a "this might work" repair. If it were on your tow vehicle, it would be different. You would know if it didn't hold long before the wheel came off or your windows fell out.
RBolton is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
KT Lock Experts WestMichCamp Doors & Locks 0 08-18-2007 04:00 PM
Any UPS experts out there? guy99 Off Topic Forum 6 12-14-2006 07:31 PM
any one going to the Bristol Nascar race ? vajeep Other Rallies & Events 32 08-26-2006 06:04 AM
Lots of Airstreams at Chicago NASCAR race 63air Off Topic Forum 0 07-10-2006 10:52 PM
Spring Bristol Race scf31 Off Topic Forum 6 02-26-2006 11:41 AM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.