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FrenchBern · 05-08-2007, 05:46 AM

Ready to order axles for my AS. Thanks to axleman/uwe and steelbird for the information provided so far. I still have a couple of concerns I will discuss with dexter this morning, like if an axle is derated below it's lowest load range does it effect it's reliability or it's lifespan? I would think that the ratio of rubber left to the surface contact would reduce the performance over long term.
I am considering NEV R LUBE bearings. Any pros or cons on them? Also I would like to compare my measurements with anyone who has taken his on a similar AS (1970 overlander international). I believe the present axles are rated @ 2800 lbs if I read the tag plate correctly. Thanks

overlander63 · 05-08-2007, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrenchBern

Ready to order axles for my AS. Thanks to axleman/uwe and steelbird for the information provided so far. I still have a couple of concerns I will discuss with dexter this morning, like if an axle is derated below it's lowest load range does it effect it's reliability or it's lifespan? I would think that the ratio of rubber left to the surface contact would reduce the performance over long term.
I am considering NEV R LUBE bearings. Any pros or cons on them? Also I would like to compare my measurements with anyone who has taken his on a similar AS (1970 overlander international). I believe the present axles are rated @ 2800 lbs if I read the tag plate correctly. Thanks

Bernie, if I read your post correctly, you would want 3,000 pound axles with a 22.5 degree starting angle.
Nev R Lube is the equivalent to the front and most rear hubs found in newer autos. They are designed to not need service, but to be replaced at 100,000 mile intervals. Most cars equipped with these type hubs run well over 100,000 miles without trouble. If I were buying new axles, I would specify Nev R Lubes on them.

kneal · 05-08-2007, 06:13 AM

Last month I put two dextar axles on my 73 Safari 3000lb rating 22.5 Angle with the 12 inch Hubs. I went with the eZ Lube as opposed to the NevRLube as my dealer stated if you ever have any problems while on the road, the eZ lubes are much easier to get parts for as opposed to the Nev R Lube...not sure the truth behind that but I did take his opinion. Also I had my axles built with the shock mounts direct from the factory....

overlander63 · 05-08-2007, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kneal

I went with the eZ Lube as opposed to the NevRLube as my dealer stated if you ever have any problems while on the road, the eZ lubes are much easier to get parts for as opposed to the Nev R Lube...not sure the truth behind that but I did take his opinion.

The hubs on the Nev R Lube are compable to the front hubs on your F150. If they go South, they are a PITA to replace, but they are much less likely to have troubles than the old taper bearings they replace. However, some people like being able to repack their bearings when servicing/inspecting their brakes, and there's nothing wrong with that. After having repacking wheel bearings for the past 35 years, I like the idea of not having to mess with them. If you think you may have a problem, you could get an extra bearing to take with you on the road, they don't take up much space, a 3" square box will contain the bearing. That's not a bad idea even if you use the EZ lube, or standard bearings. Even if you don't do the work yourself, you can always hand the mechanic the bearings for him to replace if he can't get them.

steelbird312 · 05-08-2007, 06:56 AM

Good morning Bernie,
The biggest thing that I would see as a problem with using never-lubes, is that ALMOST EVERYBODY I know that have them, has NEVER had a hub off to check for a broken brake spring

or check brake lining wear or even squirted grease into the hub fitting!
Bernie, let's be honest, if your new axles last as long as the present ones, they would have to awaken you from your eternal sleep to tell you about it! See if you can get hold of PIZZA CHOP and chat with him about the ratings. I wouldn't put 4000 lb axles on one, but wouldn't think a thing about 3500 ones on your trailer.
As for the shock mounts, if you are still planning on doing yours at home, you will need to remove yours from your old axles an weld them on. Dexter factory does not do that. Many of their dealers will, but unless Terrie tells you they have changed in the last month, they do not offer that option. The factories position is that they do not need shocks. We won't start that thread again

kneal · 05-08-2007, 07:43 AM

Dexter Factory actually built my axles with the shock mounts ...so they will offer that option. I saw the axles the day they came in to my dealer with the shock mounts factory welded and powdercoated.

CanoeStream · 05-08-2007, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steelbird312

As for the shock mounts, if you are still planning on doing yours at home, you will need to remove yours from your old axles an weld them on. Dexter factory does not do that. Many of their dealers will, but unless Terrie tells you they have changed in the last month, they do not offer that option.

Welding on the axle tube damages the rubber rods inside the torsion axle. Yes, it's not an easy matter going through regular axle dealers who don't know how to specify and can't/won't understand the Airstream setup. It sounds like kneal worked out obtaining the axles with shock mounts.

McLogger · 05-08-2007, 09:26 AM

Hey, guys I spoke to Pizza Chop a few weeks ago and he and I had great discussion about this very subject. Infact I have to order two for me asap. I would like to know (kneal) if you will, who ordered them when did you do it where they Dexter bla, bla, bla.... Everything that you have would be great help. Pizza Chop said that he thought that someone received them from the factory recently with the mounts on??? Also, please respond quickly or pm me before they shut this thread down!

doorgunner · 05-08-2007, 09:29 AM

Oh yea, the EVIL SHUT DOWN!!! lol

Inland RV Center, In · 05-08-2007, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrenchBern

Ready to order axles for my AS. Thanks to axleman/uwe and steelbird for the information provided so far. I still have a couple of concerns I will discuss with dexter this morning, like if an axle is derated below it's lowest load range does it effect it's reliability or it's lifespan? I would think that the ratio of rubber left to the surface contact would reduce the performance over long term.
I am considering NEV R LUBE bearings. Any pros or cons on them? Also I would like to compare my measurements with anyone who has taken his on a similar AS (1970 overlander international). I believe the present axles are rated @ 2800 lbs if I read the tag plate correctly. Thanks

Make sure you order 12 inch brakes, and 35 degress, not 22.5.

Andy

crispyboy · 05-08-2007, 09:46 AM

Shame on me for not asking that of Dexter last month. I moved the old shock mounts myself. I also had to make the opening in the frame larger. Need a good 4 1/2" grinder for this job.
Another tool which works really nice is a carbide tip for your drill or die grinder. I found one at the local autoparts store in the welding section. It looks like a burr which come in various sizes and will make it easier to open up the holes for lining up the bracket. Only one hole on each bracket will have to be drilled.
Also use two floor jacks which make it easier for the install.
My trailer is a narrow body trailer so measurements will differ. I ordered "option 3 high profile bracket with reverse orientation", "side mount". For some reason mine also came with an extra piece of metal bracket that is not used.
Measurements - yours will differ!
hub face to hub face - 71"
outside bracket spacing - 53 3/8"
inside bracket spacing - 49 3/8"
ez lube bearings
I have aluminum rims so I purchased new stainless steel capped lug nuts from Dexter.

doorgunner · 05-08-2007, 09:53 AM

crispy 71" hub to hub? wow that is narrow = 81" on my 86, haven't measured my small trailer yet.

FrenchBern · 05-08-2007, 10:05 AM

Awright guys for all that good information. I just called dexter and was going to get a 4k lbs #11 axle derated to 3200 lbs to get the 6 bolts hubs but they will not derate a #11 axle below 4000 lbs period. My only choice is to get a #10 axle rated up to 3500 pounds and derate it to 3200lbs and ask for option A or #11 spindle which will give me my 12x2 brakes and 6 bolts hubs. I guess that is what most of you did with old light vintage AS. Dexter call this an hybrid axle.
Jerry, that noise last week was a broken spring on the adjuster. I made it home fine. Sure was hard to find a spring in this town and had to pay $7.
Now I need to find out the difference in price for the nevrlube bearing. I packed my bearings all my life but I believe a sealed bearing will outlast the old type and if about the same price i'll find some other maintenace to do.
Now all I need to figure out is if I want shocks or not. I have been researching on the internet for testing curves on suspension with and without shocks on a torque axle. I would think the initial bump would increase the Gs with a shock installed but after that the dampening would absorb some energy and reduce the frequency and amplitude of the variation??? If anyone can help me with some data or facts, that would be rewarded with a bunch of thanks. Yes i have a reputation of being dutch or frugal.

FrenchBern · 05-08-2007, 10:16 AM

Andy, why 35 degrees instead of original 22.5. I thought factory angle was 22.5 ??? I am holding my ordering for now till i get an answer.
Crispyboy, my hub to hub is 79.25"and bracket to bracket is 61 3/8". Does that sound close for a 70?

Inland RV Center, In · 05-08-2007, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrenchBern

Andy, why 35 degrees instead of original 22.5. I thought factory angle was 22.5 ??? I am holding my ordering for now till i get an answer.
Crispyboy, my hub to hub is 79.25"and bracket to bracket is 61 3/8". Does that sound close for a 70?

New style tow vehicles are higher profiles than many years ago. 22.5 degrees is Ok, but 35 degrees is superior. 45 degrees is out of the question. Our information indicates that Dexter will build a 22.5 or 45 degree axle.

Raising the trailer helps with the hitching problem, plus gives you a couple of inches more ground clearance, greater wheel well clearance, yet does not have any negative effects on handling.

Once again, if you make the wrong decisions, you will own the axles.

On the other hand, we can supply 2800, 3000, 3200, or 3500 pound axles for your 70-27 foot trailer all with 12 inch brakes, and with the shock brackets in place. No decisions to make.

We supply guaranteed to fit axles, the first time. No modifications necessary.

Depends on betting on a sure thing, or taking chances to save a few bucks.

Andy

kneal · 05-08-2007, 10:43 AM

I went with 22.5 on a F150 4X4 with oversized tires and it is perfectly level without having to adjust my hitch. The replacement of the axles alone brought it up a couple of inches with the new axles in place...the old ones were jut shy of being at zero degree angle ...the new ones made a big difference.

overlander63 · 05-08-2007, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steelbird312

Good morning Bernie,
The biggest thing that I would see as a problem with using never-lubes, is that ALMOST EVERYBODY I know that have them, has NEVER had a hub off to check for a broken brake spring

or check brake lining wear or even squirted grease into the hub fitting!

Jerry, I know it was a typo, but for the benefit of future generations looking at this (not yet closed) thread, Never Lube bearings don't have grease fittings, hence the name.

The ones with the grease fittings are EZ lube.

crispyboy · 05-08-2007, 11:04 AM

Doorgunner,
Yeah the width of this Excella II trailer is about 9 1/2" narrower than the standard trailer of the same year. I believe they refer to these as small bodied trailers. It should be just fine for my wife and myself. If I should ever decide to sell it I think the smaller size trailer whould be sought after because it can be towed by a mid-sized SUV. The manual says it weights around 3400 with the current options and about 400 lbs on the tongue weight.

crispyboy · 05-08-2007, 11:58 AM

Overlander63 - I thought the only options for Dexter's were ez lube, never lube and oil (7000 lbs) and up.
I have standard ole' axle bearings and dust cap - just like the original. I figured that mine were just considered the ez lube.

Inland RV Center, In · 05-08-2007, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crispyboy

Overlander63 - I thought the only options for Dexter's were ez lube, never lube and oil (7000 lbs) and up.
I have standard ole' axle bearings and dust cap - just like the original. I figured that mine were just considered the ez lube.

The "only" safe and sure way to know what going on with the bearings, is to repack them every 10,000 miles, or once a year, which ever is first.

Depending a lube system to take care of the bearings, is a lot of assuming.

Additionally, if a lube system is taking care of the bearings, "who" and "what" is taking care of the brakes? No one.

Therefore, the bottom line, is to pull the hub and drums every year or at 10,000 miles, check the brakes, clean up the dust, inspect for anything unusual, repack the bearings, re-assemble and then adjust the brakes.

That "will" assure many many miles of trouble free towing.

Not pulling the hub and drums because the bearings are automatically taken care of, is fool hardy, at best.

Safety is maximized through proper PM, not by assuming, ever.

Andy