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davidh · 01-31-2006, 03:40 PM

Ok there seems to be a very high markup on axles and many differant views about it.. I have only checked with Dexter Distributors and this is what I have found out. Dexter dose not make a 3200# axle for this applecation, they offer a 3500# complete axle with electric brakes 6 bolt hubs and drums for $337.77 the only catch about the 3500# axle is that you can only get it with 10" brakes, which I would not put on a 31' trailer. In order to get 12" brakes you need to move up to a 6000# axle and these sell for $449.66 per axle complete with electric brakes 6 bolt hubs and drums these are torsion axles. Now because it is a 6000# axle dose not mean that your tailer will ride rougher it just makes your GVWR larger per axle. Now if you want just the bare axle for 12" brakes that will run 341.38. I have also found out that prices differ from distributor to distributor, the way I look at it is this, Inland RV wants $800.00 for a complete axle 10" or 12" and $500.00 for a bare axle 10" or 12" plus shipping, now these axles that Inland RV sells are Henschen axles whitch are OEM on Airstreams. If I needed axles on my trailer it would be a no thinker for me on which axles that I would buy but that is only my thoughts. The prices that I have given do not include shipping..

JimGolden · 01-31-2006, 08:03 PM

Which one would you buy? Would you get the $450 Dexter or the $800 Henschen? I've seen guys on here argue vehemently both ways.

Me, I still don't see where the torsion types are that superior to leaf springs. Yes, you get independant suspension. But are you in a Porsche 911 going around a race track? No, you're driving a pickup truck with leaf springs pulling a travel trailer. I don't see where the independant suspension is going to make that huge a difference. Maybe I'm all wet here, but I'm just not getting it. At least with leafs, they don't sag on you after not jacking the thing up all the time and leave you with a low rider.

Of course, that being said, the torsion types are superior in every regard OTHER than taking the permanent set.

I'm in a similar position right now David. My axles are shot. I'm also looking to fab a brand new frame of a deeper section. I will eliminate the sag and separation problem once and for all. The question is: Do I want to go with torsion axles or go with leaf springs? After I answer that question, I will have to look at what brands to go with...

wkerfoot · 01-31-2006, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimGolden

Which one would you buy? Would you get the $450 Dexter or the $800 Henschen? I've seen guys on here argue vehemently both ways.

Me, I still don't see where the torsion types are that superior to leaf springs. Yes, you get independant suspension. But are you in a Porsche 911 going around a race track? No, you're driving a pickup truck with leaf springs pulling a travel trailer. I don't see where the independant suspension is going to make that huge a difference. Maybe I'm all wet here, but I'm just not getting it. At least with leafs, they don't sag on you after not jacking the thing up all the time and leave you with a low rider.

Of course, that being said, the torsion types are superior in every regard OTHER than taking the permanent set.

I'm in a similar position right now David. My axles are shot. I'm also looking to fab a brand new frame of a deeper section. I will eliminate the sag and separation problem once and for all. The question is: Do I want to go with torsion axles or go with leaf springs? After I answer that question, I will have to look at what brands to go with...

Jim,

I would replace torsion with torsion and leaf with leaf, replacing one with the other means quite a few changes. Torsion also gives you ground clearance which the leafs do not and the distance between the axle and the trailer does not change with torsion. I have leafs on the 1954 Liner and torsion on the 1979 Safari.

Bill

davidh · 01-31-2006, 08:50 PM

The reason I started this thread was because I have read so much about cost, Its almost like trying to reinvent the wheel. Mine have been replaced with Henschen before Inland became the only retailer for them. The funny thing about my axles are I have the Henschen invoice but they came with a Dexter manual whats up with that I do not know. I know this much the price of iron as gone up in leaps and bounds so axle price is going to be higher. If I had to replace my axles, I know I would not pay the price Inland RV wants for there Henschen axles. Both axles are torsion, real close to the same design I would think other then maybe different rubber compounds and the inside shaft, both are the same princeable in development, I am not a expert in that field. But when it gets right down to spending the green I would buy the Dexter without a dought, I would rather keep that extra $700.00 in my pocket than give it to someone else. As for leafs I guess thats up to you, me no.

stagecoachbill · 01-31-2006, 08:52 PM

I took my 62 Globe Trotter to Axis Products in Elkart IN . They took off the old axle and built a new one to match the old, and installed itl I drove away $442 later and have been very happy that I didn't have to do it myself.

davidh · 01-31-2006, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stagecoachbill

I took my 62 Globe Trotter to Axis Products in Elkart IN . They took off the old axle and built a new one to match the old, and installed itl I drove away $442 later and have been very happy that I didn't have to do it myself.

__________________
Glad to hear that,,, that is another good alternetive there are lots ways to go about it to save money and that is the whole objective to this thread, the money saved is another trip in my book..

dwightdi · 01-31-2006, 09:09 PM

There is no vertical motion (under the trailer) for torsion suspension. There is a live solid axle under the trailer for leaf springs. When the springs go up and down under the unit the height of the floor of the trailer must be raised to allow for this movement. This puts the floor further up in the air and raises the center of gravity of the unit. This makes the whole thing more suceptible to side loads from trucks passing and also make the unit tippier from side to side from irregularities in the road. You can not make a better handling trailer when you start off with an inferior suspension system. That and it also make the towing air resistance of the unit more since it will have to be higher overall and not be tucked in behind the TV. Next time you are at an RV show or campground check the distance from the ground to the floor in the trailer. You will be surprised.

davidh · 01-31-2006, 09:21 PM

dewighdi I know I live in mine full time I just took the Lab out to do his thing and walked over to a 06 coachman that sits beside me has leafs from ground to floor about 3'6", these trailers are to high.

wkerfoot · 01-31-2006, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidh

dewighdi I know I live in mine full time I just took the Lab out to do his thing and walked over to a 06 coachman that sits beside me has leafs from ground to floor about 3'6", these trailers are to high.

David,

The height has nothing to do with leaf springs. My 1954 Double Door Liner with leaf springs is about the same floor height as my 1979 Safari with torsion springs. The difference you found is the fact that the floor is above the wheels and tires to give the trailer a flat floor without the wheel wheels encroaching on the floor.

What I really like about Airstream trailers is the low floor height.

Bill

davidh · 01-31-2006, 09:37 PM

Your absalutly wright that is why they sit so high so they can have axle travel if they had wheel wells they would be lower, you sir are 100% correct..

steelbird312 · 02-01-2006, 07:30 AM

Just last month, I helped a friend (on this forum) put new axles on his '70 Overlander, 28 foot. I measured 5 times, and then ordered: Hub face to Hub face, 79 7/16". The mounting brackets welded to the axles 61 1/8", with the "l" turned inward. These dimensions gave him beautiful tire clearance front to back and inside to outside. He used Dexter axles for two reasons. Dexter has a place 35 miles from our home, and the cost was right at half what they would be buying Henschens from the supplier, and NO SHPPNG. I ordered two #11 axles with a #3700lb rating so as to receive the 12 inch brakes/drums. I also ordered the 22.5 degree down on the start angle. The trailer sits up nice and pretty now. Pulls great. The main thing I am trying to tell you is that you can order anything you want in load ratings. I think you can even order #3600 in the #11 axle, still getting the 12" brakes.
Now, when it came time to mount them, the back hole in the Dexter bracket is the same location as stock. On the front hole, I elongated the hole on the Dexter bracket approx. .225". I then had to widen the hole for the axle tube on the Airstream frame by approx .185 on each side of the opening to keep the axle centered. The Dexter axle tube is 3" where your Henshen is 2.75. The upper portion of the hole was left with the flat factory cut to keep the axle positioned properly. I installed it this way instead of cutting the brackets off the old axles and welding them on the new as I did not want to weld on a tube that already contained the rubber torsion rods. We accomplished this in about 6-8 hours total, spread over two days.
Not trying to talk you into anything, just telling you what we did and the results. The owner of the trailer is GTRACER. If you would like, email me (wingsofgold1@cs.com) or call me, and we will discuss at legnth. 770-228-6678

Safari-Rick · 02-01-2006, 08:58 AM

Reading previous post on Inland RV, It seems they have customer service issues.

I highly recommend that you check out C & G Trailer Service in Bellflower, CA.
Prices are fair, great help, and nice people too !

It'll be worth going the extra mile.

Good luck in your quest.

Safari-Rick

SmokelessJoe · 02-01-2006, 11:11 AM

Inland Andy probably charges so much to cover for the all the “free” abuse and put downs he dishes out here.

It fascinates me that some members seem to take masochistic delight in this and keep buying from the guy.

I wonder why the forum allows him to flame throw around here. He’s obviously an opportunistic vendor, masquerading as an “expert” on these pages.

Nobody needs to reward such rudeness with their money.

Besides, doesn’t Airstream use Dexter now?

Sergei

**Action** · 02-01-2006, 11:31 AM

Sergei,

Inland RV is not allowed to "flame throw" or post anything any different than you. They have been punished just like others that are out of line when brought to our attention or we discover issues. However we will not broadcast to everyone every time some one is punished. There are no special rules for anyone. We are not perfect or paid. Just volunteers doing the best that we can. If you have suggestions please do not with hold. And while you are entitled to you opinions, so is everyone else.

Another advantage to independent suspension of torsion springs is the ride for the things we all have inside. As the torsion springs wear and no longer have the smoother ride, things tend to move or fly inside. Extreme cases have involved rivits coming loose. Going to leaf springs would provide a rougher ride. However, in my opinion leafs last longer, they have other draw backs as compared to independant rubber torsion springs. Poorer ride, higher ride height, can get rusty and squeek, do not look as nice as torsons, more difficult to have multi axles, take up more installed space.

A manufacturer has to always consider the limitations when building a product. I would think Airstream would consider 10 to 20 years as an acceptable life span for the product they make. (axles included) I don't know that for sure and any manufacture wants the consumer to come back for a more recent offering. For those of us that have vintage units (as defined by VAC) it would be my opinion that Airstream doesn't even care for those units. In fact those units probably compete for sales in the newer box trailers. I know I decided a VAC defined A/S was a better choice for me than a newer box type. A newer (less than 5 years old) Airstream was not even on the radar screen when I was buying. ....... however I am off the topic now so I will stop.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action

Zeppelinium · 02-01-2006, 11:49 AM

I priced an axle from Axis for my 1971 18' Caravel just last week. A bare axle with 3" tube was $275. With 12" electric brakes and drum it was $366. Then you have to get it shipped. The good, even best, thing is that they will install the brackets so that you have a perfect (no drilling, no welding) installation. I have one more set of measurements to make before I actually order, but I will report the outcome in the Axles and Wheels forum.

Regarding Inland RV: Andy can be interesting, but I have discussed the axle situation with him in detail. He even showed me how to get the shock off of the original axle without having to take the axle down--just take a very big screwdriver and bend the shock-mounted tab outboard just enough to slip the shock off the stud.

Also, he said that at the time he picked up the exclusive Henschen distribution rights, Henschen was about to stop making customer axles entirely. The reason for this was the number of disputes that they were encountering about axle fit. As I try to correctly measure mine, I can believe that lots of mistakes were made, leading to lots of returns. Andy took on that burden, so he covers himself by charging what it takes (not that I like it but I understand it).

markdoane · 02-01-2006, 11:59 AM

I don't agree with the statement that leaf springs require higher floors and ride height.

The floor height on my 1959 Tradewind with leaf springs is lower than current A/S models.

I also dispute that the ride is 'poorer', but I don't have data to prove it. If someone has real data I hope they will share it. I didn't have any busted rivets in my Tradewind.

Oh, and I'm still looking for the lab report on the Henschen vs Axis dynamometer test.

wkerfoot · 02-01-2006, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markdoane

I don't agree with the statement that leaf springs require higher floors and ride height.

The floor height on my 1959 Tradewind with leaf springs is lower than current A/S models.

I also dispute that the ride is 'poorer', but I don't have data to prove it. If someone has real data I hope they will share it. I didn't have any busted rivets in my Tradewind.

Oh, and I'm still looking for the lab report on the Henschen vs Axis dynamometer test.

Mark,

As I said the high ride height on SOBs is due to the lack of wheel wells and the desire on the manufacturer's part to have a flat floor without wheel well cutouts. My 1954 Liner has about the same floor height as my 1979 Safari. There is a reason Airstream and others go with the torsion axle, I believe that the reasons, for Airstream, were discussed in the new Wanderlust book, but I don't have it in front of me now.

Bill

JimGolden · 02-01-2006, 08:01 PM

I have telephoned Andy on several occasions and he's never been anything but really nice to me.

Mike B · 02-05-2006, 09:43 AM

Hello All,
I Bought 2) Axis 3700# axles with 12" Kodiak Disk brakes , Mounting bolts, Hydraulic brake line kit and an Actibrake electric over hydraulic pump the middle of last year for a little less than $1300.oo for our 31". Shipping was not included in that price.
Last month was the first time that we had the trailer finished enough that we were able to take it camping.
I am very happy with the quality and fit of the Axis axles and the disk brakes are unbelivable.
If anyone is on the fence about the Kodiak disk brakes one hard stop with them will make up your mind for you.
If you want to read more info about axle stuff read the thread "The Minuet is at the Axle Doctor".

Mike B

Anon · 02-05-2006, 12:31 PM

I was the first one to get an Axis Products axle installed by Axis.
I took my Minuet down to Elkhart, IN in April of last year. Axis not only installed the new axle but also offered SEVERAL coating options. One being galvanizing. I went with the E-coating.
My brother-in-law now owns the 1973 31' that my father bought brand new. The trailer sat so low that the tops of the wheel covers could not be seen. My brother-in-law did not believe me when I told him to replace the axles. He took the trailer to Jackson Center to resolve the rear-end sag. When they quoted approximately $1,200 per axle he called me from there. I gave him the contact information and he hauled it over to Elkhart. Long story short; he got two new axles under the '73 for less than one from Airstream. He called me from the road while hauling it back home and commented that he had never known it could tow so well.
I am a firm believer that torsion axle manufacturers' materials and assembly methods cannot vary widely. These are items that need to be safe. I am sure that the manufacturers take liability very seriously. I do not think that any of them make an inferior product due to this.
Taking the liability into account I based my decision upon the fact they are not going to vary in quality greatly. If you can feel comfortable with the manufacturer of the axle then you can make your decision based upon price.