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Old 11-08-2018, 03:59 PM   #1
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1977 Argosy 24
Apison , Tennessee
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45 down axles?

getting ready to order dexter axles for my 77 argosy 24. the place offers 22 down, and 45 down. anyone used the 45 down? any reason not to? They don't list the 33 down but I will check when I call to actually place the order on its availability.
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Old 11-08-2018, 06:18 PM   #2
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I replaced the axles on our 91 Excella with what I thought were 32* down but after checking my receipt from Inland it does not state. I also checked the Dexter online ordering form and they do not offer 32* down, among others they offer 22.5 and 45 down.
The trailer sits a good 2-1/2" - 3" higher than the sagged out originals and looking under the trailer ready to go camping it shows about 10* + of down angle.
Sooo, not sure what I have but suspect they are 22.5 and going to 45 down would not be something I would consider.

What is the static angle of you arms now?
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Old 11-08-2018, 06:42 PM   #3
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mine are flat or slightly up. did not move at all when I jacked up trailer and took the weight off. might just get the 22 ones. and space it up if I need it higher.
Anyone ever used dexter parts online? they said 7-9 days for axle build. I need them sooner than later, so I hope that is true.
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Old 11-08-2018, 09:16 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by V30crewcab View Post

Anyone ever used dexter parts online? they said 7-9 days for axle build. I need them sooner than later, so I hope that is true.
I am pretty sure shipping time would be in addition the build time.

I have never ordered axles. Based on posts by other users this is usually an evnet that takes weeks to obtain the part. Not days.

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Old 11-15-2018, 02:18 PM   #5
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1971 31' Sovereign
Orlando , Florida
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Hi Folks:

There is a weird disconnect with Dexter distributors. Dexter indeed does offer 32 degrees down. I just confirmed this with Dexter. But, often on distributors order form (Red Neck and others) it's not indicated - unsure why. 32degrees down seems to be the preferred angle. 45 degrees in about 3/4 of an inch higher, which seems inconsequential to me, but what do I know, I'm not a mechanical engineer.

Hope this helps.

B
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Old 11-16-2018, 05:14 PM   #6
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1976 31' Sovereign
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Mine are 32 down and if I had to do it over again I would go 45 down to get it up higher with towing vehicle. The new ones are much higher now and look better IMHO
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Old 11-16-2018, 07:58 PM   #7
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A few months ago, I replaced the Henschen single axle on our 19' Bambi with a 22.5 Dexter axle. That raised the trailer more than 1".

It is worth noting that the amount of wheel travel the axles allow is determined by the internal geometry of the axle, not by the amount of drop of the axle. With a 45 axle, the wheels can move no further than with a 22.5 axle.

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Old 11-16-2018, 08:39 PM   #8
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1977 Argosy 24
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I ended up ordering 22.5 axles. figured if I needed it higher I would install lift brackets. also got the shock brackets welded on and I think they only do that on the 22.5, or at least thats what I had read. Hope to find out this coming week. we will see if their timeframe is true.
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Old 11-17-2018, 04:08 AM   #9
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Insofar as axle movement is concerned it was explained to me by a Dexter axle designer that the design calls for no more than that movement which is achieved when the load be it from dead weight or dynamic movement is achieved.

He said if the bounce load exceeds the axle specs it will go past but the ride becomes very hard and starts shaking things loose you don't want to come loose.

He went on to say that the capacity of the axles should have their load between 50% and 66% of the design of the axles. My trailer weight is 6000 lbs and he recommended two 5200 lb axles or 10,400 lbs which puts it right in the middle of the range and allows for a smooth dampening of the shock when big road anomalies occur and does not exceed the shock design.

I noted when I removed the factory axles they were rated at 3500 lbs each and they had taken a set and the ride was extremely rough. With the new axles I can tell the trailer is riding much smoother than my tow vehicle which is a 2500HD. It raised the trailer about 2" and now I wish it had raised it maybe 4" as I am cautious going over railroad tracks etc as I don't want the frame to bottom out on the road.
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Old 12-18-2018, 06:59 PM   #10
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well this whole deal has kinda gone sideways. they took forever getting the axles here, and then they are full 3500 rating, suppose to be derated to 2600.. talked to the guy two days in a row, and he says hes going to call and check with dexter, and then I never hear back. today he was saying," can't you use them the way they are?" NO! they are not correct like I ordered! "well dexter is closed til the first of the year so its going to be mid-Jan to get another set."
Guess I'll have to call him back again tomorrow.
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Old 12-20-2018, 08:48 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V30crewcab View Post
well this whole deal has kinda gone sideways. they took forever getting the axles here, and then they are full 3500 rating, suppose to be derated to 2600.. talked to the guy two days in a row, and he says hes going to call and check with dexter, and then I never hear back. today he was saying," can't you use them the way they are?" NO! they are not correct like I ordered! "well dexter is closed til the first of the year so its going to be mid-Jan to get another set."
Guess I'll have to call him back again tomorrow.

well I guess I squeaked enough to get some grease. they are sending a fedex truck to pickup these axles, and build some new ones. they won't be here til middle of Jan, but oh well, not much I can do about it.
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Old 01-13-2019, 06:32 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by V30crewcab View Post
well I guess I squeaked enough to get some grease. they are sending a fedex truck to pickup these axles, and build some new ones. they won't be here til middle of Jan, but oh well, not much I can do about it.

Well that's good news, sort of I guess, at least that they are picking them back up and have committed to building new ones to your specs. I am currently filling out the online Torflex Axle Quote request from the same vendor, Dexter Parts On Line. I made notes in the Special Notes section to derate the 3500 lb #10 axles to 3000 for my 74 Argosy 24' which currently has the Henschen 2800# axles under it. Is that how you communicated the weight you wanted yours built to?

I am also ordering mine with from what I can determine was the original 22.5* down, as I will be towing at times with a 79 Buick Estate Wagon and do not need any additional height to have to deal with with the hitch.

Would really appreciate any thoughts or help you might can give on how to ensure I get what I need from them.
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Old 01-19-2019, 02:50 PM   #13
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I actually called them, then he emailed a copy of the order that I had to look over, sign and send back.

I got my new set of axles yesterday. looks right this time. just need to get them installed now.
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Old 01-20-2019, 09:00 AM   #14
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Thanks V30, I ordered mine a couple days ago, should be here in 7-9 days Justin said, made and shipped from Indiana.
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Old 01-24-2019, 08:35 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hummer View Post
Insofar as axle movement is concerned it was explained to me by a Dexter axle designer that the design calls for no more than that movement which is achieved when the load be it from dead weight or dynamic movement is achieved.

He said if the bounce load exceeds the axle specs it will go past but the ride becomes very hard and starts shaking things loose you don't want to come loose.

He went on to say that the capacity of the axles should have their load between 50% and 66% of the design of the axles. My trailer weight is 6000 lbs and he recommended two 5200 lb axles or 10,400 lbs which puts it right in the middle of the range and allows for a smooth dampening of the shock when big road anomalies occur and does not exceed the shock design.

I noted when I removed the factory axles they were rated at 3500 lbs each and they had taken a set and the ride was extremely rough. With the new axles I can tell the trailer is riding much smoother than my tow vehicle which is a 2500HD. It raised the trailer about 2" and now I wish it had raised it maybe 4" as I am cautious going over railroad tracks etc as I don't want the frame to bottom out on the road.

That's very interesting information from the Dexter axle engineer. I have often wondered why AS cuts the specifications so close, how the shock loads affect the ride and having the physical weight so close to the axle capacity.

My trailer full loaded down and ready to camp has 7400 lbs on the axles. This doesn't include the occasional full black and grey tanks. The original axles were 4000k each. When I replaced I went with 4500 k axles with a 32.5 degree down angle. GVWR is 8,300 lbs for the trailer (realizing that some of this is tongue weight). My trailer rides very smooth on the new axles.
Years ago there was a very knowledgeable AS guy who frequented this board (Andy from Inland RV) and claimed never to go over 10-15% greater on the AS axle specification. Supposedly AS was concerned about the ride of the trailer and didn't want to shake it apart. Seems like the engineering thoughts have changed between Henchen axle and Dexter axle. In hindsight the trailer would have been just fine with the 5200 lb axles.
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Old 01-24-2019, 04:22 PM   #16
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V30, did you order the shock mount brackets to be welded onto your new axles ? I did and am having serious problems with the Dexter plant telling Dexter Parts they can't weld shock brackets on #10 axles and Dexter Parts is suggesting I go with #11 axles and have them derated to 3000#, that way I would get 12 inch brakes and larger spindles and bearing etc etc. and at an additional cost of $115 and axle. Firstly I don't understand why the plant can weld 11's but not 10's, I'm sure I read of someone getting it done. I also recall reading that 11's could not be derated to as low as 3000#, anyone know that for a fact?

Justin at Dexter Parts just gave me the Dexter Plant phone number and suggested I call and discuss it all with them. I thought that was what the middleman was paid to do but I guess I'll call them tomorrow. Will post outcome.
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Old 01-25-2019, 11:36 AM   #17
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Hey Guys:

My understanding of the axle questions:

AS far as the GVWR of our trailers vrs the stated capacity of an axle, I disagree that you'd want to significantly over-rate axles. Here's my thinking, and what Andy preached at Inland RV. The challenge is to find a reasonable balance, between GVWR and axle rating. Too high of an axle rating versus GVWR would equal a stiffer ride and negate the purpose of conditioning a campers ride.

Say you have a GVWR of 5,000 pounds. If you had 10,000 # axles, the mechanisms of the axles would really not do what they were supposed to do - chiefly - cushion the ride of your relatively light camper versus your very heavy duty axles.

Andy was very insistent on this point (as well as others). Andy is now retired, having sold Inland to somebody else.

My brother is a PhD ME, and has worked in the auto industry. He said "any axle is designed to handle both the static load and the dynamic load - and EVERY axle is designed to handle multiples of the static load". The static load is the rated load. The dynamic load is the stress induced load (turning, speed bumps, etc.). The point is not to over stress the axles AND to reduce dynamic loads imposed onto the rolling chassis. Significantly over-rated axles would do this. Just as significantly underrated axles could too.

I'm not sure who an axle designer is at Dexter. IS that an assembly technician with no academic engineering qualifications, or is that an ME or an IE? That would greatly influence my comfort level of their comprehension.

Regarding shock mount welding

Dexter and Andy both stated the mounts MUST be welded prior to assembly as the heat from the welding could very likely melt the internal rubber cords within a torsion axle assembly. I've read where people did weld them on afterwards, but I have no awareness of the outcome.

So, my 6,300 pound Overlander with 3000 pounds axles (@33 degrees DA) ride fully loaded at zero degrees. This may change as the axles age, and the mileage creeps up. Currently they have about 20K miles on the set.

That's my two cents!

Have a good day guys!
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Old 01-27-2019, 12:20 AM   #18
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I have welded the shock mounts on myself. The rubber portion of the axle is within the main square tube. The actual welding is on the arm not the tube so your really not putting any direct heat on the rubber portion. If there were any heat it would be negligible. The arm itself is a large heat sink. A welder could also stitch it a little at a time if you wanted to be ultra cautious but it’s not necessary.
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Old 01-28-2019, 08:25 AM   #19
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45 degree down axles

Crispy Boy,

Good to know - tha ks for the clarification!

Brek
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Old 02-01-2019, 09:02 AM   #20
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yes they welded mine on no problems. I could have welded them on straighter though. I just used the code for it and no problems.
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