Suburban NT30: Pilot Light Won't Light

[Aage]

2xs,

Wow, you got it out, alright. Great photos! So, did you have to cut the 3" X 3" hole they describe? When I was at Jackson Center a couple weeks ago, I asked the tech that replaced my water heater why that piece needed to be cut out, and he just looked at me and shook his head like I was crazy.

He showed me the screws on the bottom rail of the horizontal tambour door, and said they need to come out, but those and a few shelf rivets would be plenty to be able to get it right out.

Also, when you did get it out, did you check to see if there was a lot of rust inside? Most of the people that write about removing their furnaces here on airforums.com mention that there was a lot of loose rusted metal that they dumped out of the steel gas manifolds.

They point out that if the innards are "dissolving" in rust, there's not much point in carrying on repairing it; it just won't be safe any more.

What do you feel, having had a good look at it? Yours doesn't look all rusty on the outside, at least.

[2xS]

Originally Posted by Aage

did you have to cut the 3" X 3" hole they describe? ...

Also, when you did get it out, did you check to see if there was a lot of rust inside? Most of the people that write about removing their furnaces here on airforums.com mention that there was a lot of loose rusted metal that they dumped out of the steel gas manifolds.

They point out that if the innards are "dissolving" in rust, there's not much point in carrying on repairing it; it just won't be safe any more.

What do you feel, having had a good look at it? Yours doesn't look all rusty on the outside, at least.

I did have to cut a hole; I used the dremel to cut it out... took about 3 minutes...


So, I just went and did a little damage assessment to see if it was worthy of repair...

If this was an electrical system, I'd know instantly, but this is an LPG system...

I blew out the innards of the furnace as well as I could: there were granular black pieces for the most part. The initial dump showed grainy blackish material with a reddish hue. I assume the blackened parts are carbon and the reddish hue is oxidation; I also assume I should mostly be concerned with the reddish hue. There was a steady output of blackened material escaping as I blew through it. From what I see, there is only slight oxidation on the burners inside (from what I can see through the lighter hole cover), and the chamber seems slightly reddish on the outside. That's my rust assessment...

Besides the oxidation... I assume the only parts I would want to replace are: 1) the outside gasket, 2) the asbestos gasket, and 3) the infamous crossover hose.

I am confident that I am capable of performing the repairs on the furnace, or modifying the plenum for a new model.

I also found what I believe to be the best price for a replacement NT-30SP: $569.90+$37.75(S&H) Suburban NT-30SP Series Ducted Furnace 30,000 BTU - $569.90

So presented the same dilemma, what would you do?

To Repair or to replace: that is the question


**On a side note: The original plenum design seems completely flawed. The blower blows warm air in the back left of the furnace, and then pushes through the plenum and apparently backwards through the duct. ?? If forced air is like electricity, why would it choose the path of greatest resistance? Seems like all the air would want to exit out of the front opening of the plenum... I've had it on... it works exactly as physics might dictate...

Thank you in advance!

[Aage]

Well, good sense would dictate that new is better, safer, and more efficient than 38 years old, of course. I mean, if you had a 38-year-old furnace in your home, would you feel good about it?

But something that only gets maybe ten or twenty hours use a year on average, the only real risk is that rust got to critical components.

The real questions is: is it safe?

Outside of the refer, it's the most expensive appliance in your trailer. And yet, if it doesn't work, you WILL be unhappy during several of those "few hours" every year.

I have seen that a lot of posters here get a ceramic or oil-filled electric heater and use that instead of replacing the Suburbana. I would much prefer to have a blower-operated furnace myself, so that the entire trailer is warmed, and not have to depend on radiant heat from the only area those heaters will go in my trailer; on the wall to the left of the cooker.

I'm going to give this lots of thought over the winter and may well wind up buying new, if I can afford it come spring. Please keep us informed if you do go ahead and repair it, as Barry did with the rad hose, and a good clean-up.

Thanks for all those pictures, I really understand it better now. Neither the service manual nor the owner's manual show anything near the detail your shots have.

I noticed that you used two different cameras for those shots, BTW..?

cheers,
Aage

[Lumatic]

Originally Posted by 2xS

I assume the only parts I would want to replace are: 1) the outside gasket, 2) the asbestos gasket, and 3) the infamous crossover hose.

A techy told me to use gas tank hose to replace the crossover tube.

Maybe you can get her running again, but would you be able to sleep ever wondering if that is carbon monoxide you smell, which of course you can't. You will still have a finicky 40 year old furnace. You can get a new NT 30 for about $300 from Palomino, or at least you could.

[2xS]

Not the best poll, right? But the responses here are priceless...

Compiling more data from the archives, it seems as though it's about 50/50 on whether or not to replace or repair... The deal maker or breaker (if unit was salvageable) seemed to be what the frequency of use was: people who didn't use the furnace a whole lot seemed to be happy with their repair, and people who did use the furnace a lot were happy they replaced the unit for their own piece of mind.

So... I guess that may be part of the equation I didn't put in this thread. My GF hates being cold; I mean HATES. For some reason, anything <65 is unbearable to her. So I suppose I have two options now: 1) Replace the heater or, 2) Replace the GF.

For piece of mind... we've decided to replace the furnace.

Lumatic: Thank You for that lead there!!!! I read that the other day and was having difficulty finding where a new NT-30 was purchased for $300. Also thank you for reposting the crossover tube info here! I followed your previous threads on this subject with open ears and great interest.

For those following the thread, you have to call Palomino, there are no parts listed on their website. Here is the number: 800-297-5830. Thank you 'Silver Threads' for that! I can tell you their operating hours are M-F, 8am-4:30 EST. Of course, it's Friday @ 6:30pm PST when I call... I'll be their first customer come Monday morning.


Aage: When you're right, you're right: safety first! I'm with you (as is my GF); I'd much prefer a furnace and blower to any radiant heat. But the catalytic heaters have their merits; the 0A current draw is particularly appealing. Thanks for the pic comments too!!! I try to be as clear as I can, but pictures are, well... you know... And nice eye with the different camera usages good Sir! When it rains, it pours... I managed to drop my nice(r) 8MegaPixel camera while taking shots last night. I'm glad they're still turning out good as it is only a 2MP camera. My Christmas list just keeps getting bigger...

[smaurer16]

Mine just pushes in and out about 1/2" and doesn't feel like it's doing anything. I can see the button and connecting rod that goes to the back of the chambers but what is this actually doing? It is an NT30 model.

[2xS]

The reset button allows gas to flow to the pilot. The reset button needs to be held in until the thermostat is warm enough to register so that gas continues to flow to the pilot. Refer to the first post's attachment for lighting instructions via the user manual. The button should snap back out when you are done pushing it.

On a side note, I couldn't be happier with the new furnace. The peace of mind it offered was well worth it, and the job wasn't nearly as bad as I made it sound. I picked up a new Olympian Wave 6 catalytic heater as well. No more freezing cabin, no more CO dumping into the cabin, no more furnace pilot.

[fotochop]

I chucked the nt22 and put in a new 30:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f427...t22-60035.html

safety first!

[smaurer16]

Originally Posted by 2xS

The reset button allows gas to flow to the pilot. The reset button needs to be held in until the thermostat is warm enough to register so that gas continues to flow to the pilot. Refer to the first post's attachment for lighting instructions via the user manual. The button should snap back out when you are done pushing it.

On a side note, I couldn't be happier with the new furnace. The peace of mind it offered was well worth it, and the job wasn't nearly as bad as I made it sound. I picked up a new Olympian Wave 6 catalytic heater as well. No more freezing cabin, no more CO dumping into the cabin, no more furnace pilot.

So you have a new furnace AND the Olympian? I think this might be the way to go for us since we will probably be in the high country here in CO and need all the heat we can get. Also the loss of decent oxygen at 9k feet. Thanks for the help

[smaurer16]

Originally Posted by fotochop

I chucked the nt22 and put in a new 30:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f427...t22-60035.html

safety first!

I see you bumped up in BTU's. Would you recommend that for my NT30A? Nice pictures of the replacement.

[RichHog]

Just replaced my NT22 with the 30SP. For the record I've noticed many posts here where we try to save a buck and repair or troubleshoot the old furnaces but in the end replacement is the best and in most cases the only answer.

[smaurer16]

I just replaced my NT30A with a NT30SP. Sleeping with my 4 year old in the AS is not something to take a chance on with a 38 year old furnace.