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Old 07-23-2017, 08:27 PM   #1
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Penguin Heat/Pump problems???

Hi All , Calling on this great forum again for advice. This weekend we had A/C failure. I have a Penguin Heat Pump on my 96 Excella and it worked flawlessly 2 weeks ago on a trip but this weekend it started out fine one day and the next day it was off when we came back to the trailer, switched the thermostat off then back to on and it came back on then went off again. So cleaned the filters to see if that would help, switched it back on and it ran for awhile and shut off. Now switch off and back on now just a humming sound with no fan .So at this point I think its the fan motor start capacitor so I take the interior panel off and spin the fan blade and it slowly started spinning up to speed then in a minute or so the compressor came on, it ran for about 15 minutes cooling fine and then the compressor makes a bumping sound and the compressor cuts out, fan continues to run so I switched it off. Waited a few min and switched it back on fan would not start so i tried spinning it again but this time it would not start up. So now my thoughts are the fan motor is bad possibly ?? But I do not know why the compressor made the bumping sound and cut out.
Any thoughts on what may be going on ? Thanks
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Old 07-23-2017, 10:08 PM   #2
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Sadly.. I think you may have used up all the cooling... just kidding.. sorta.

Only proceed if you are comfortable testing mechanical and electrical..

For the fan to start so slowly, it may be mechanical... bad bearing or rusted... shut off the circuit breaker and try to spin... does it spin easily? If spins easily, sounds like might be one or both capacitors, one on fan, one on compressor should be considered since also the compressor fails to start and run...

There is also possibly an electrical power supply problem. Verify you have voltage. Without that.. no cool...
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Old 07-24-2017, 05:08 AM   #3
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The fan spins but I wouldn't say freely but enough I was able to get to run once and the compressor came on and ran for about 15 min and then cut out but the fan remained running. So I switched it off and retried at that point everything was hot and the fan wouldn't catch up just hummed.

So if the fan motor is going bad would that make the compressor cut off ?
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Old 07-24-2017, 06:36 AM   #4
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Quote:
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The fan spins but I wouldn't say freely but enough I was able to get to run once and the compressor came on and ran for about 15 min and then cut out but the fan remained running. So I switched it off and retried at that point everything was hot and the fan wouldn't catch up just hummed.

So if the fan motor is going bad would that make the compressor cut off ?
Sad but necessary comment..
I must caution you.. if not done properly, this machine will do serious harm or kill you... if not SURE, do not proceed... remember, this is only an advice forum.. everything you do from recommendations are your responsibility.

Agree? Proceed.. wisely, carefully..

Startup requires most power...
If compressor is stalled, and fan slow, I would have the electrical checked FIRST. Because both are failing... power should be sufficient with low voltage drop when starting. If voltage is 110 with AC OFF, when starting voltage should not drop below 100.. this will be a brief drop of maybe a second..then return.

Once the fan and compressor start, there may not be enough electrical power to sustain "run". Another item may be the capacitor... sometimes these are "start/run", which, if weak, will allow the compressor to stall (stop) and that is the "hum" you hear.

The fan must/should turn effortlessly... and spin freely. If not, then you are better off replacing the unit. Could be bearings/rust on AC fan shaft. Lubrication MIGHT help. There may be a start/run capacitor here as well.

There are no serviceable internal compressor Items.

If you are competent check the cap... make sure power is OFF AT DISTRIBUTION panel... "short" between cap terminals to discharge the cap!!! Don't touch whatever you use to "short" the cap.

Now you can inspect the cap..is it "buckled or swollen"?? Bad cap. Replace? Yes, if you can find exact one before replacing. Swap each wire to new cap one at a time.. take care of the polarity.

Power on and check again. It it fails once, and power is good, new unit.

Be careful !!! Oh.. btw.. our 1999 is due for replacement.... congrats for the unit lasting so long!
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Old 07-24-2017, 07:36 AM   #5
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Hi

....hmmmm..... "bump sound and the compressor cut out". ... hmmm....

That sounds a lot like a compressor that has reached end of life. The fact that the fan kept running past the normal shutoff point suggests that the control circuit did not command the compressor to shut off.

The days of being able to service any small refrigeration setup are long gone. They all have been sealed units for a very long time now. I guess that's good, since it reduces the price. It's not good if you have to service them ....

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Old 07-24-2017, 08:45 AM   #6
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Thanks for the advice and will be cautious.
But the comment uncle bob made about the compressor has me concerned because I to thought that it was strange for the fan to continue after the compressor cut out. Then after all components heated up I couldn't get the fan to run again.
I would gladly replace the fan motor and capacitor but if the compressor could possibly be bad then that wouldn't be wise.
I have the trailer back home and will see if the fan comes on with the outlet at home. Thanks
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Old 07-24-2017, 12:44 PM   #7
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Remember... insufficient power, a new one will also fail...
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Old 07-24-2017, 12:51 PM   #8
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a unit that old could have leaked out all the freon which is most likely r12 and not worth trying to replace.

more likely the start/ run cap (capacitor) is bad. replace that and see what happens.. no power to trailer and be sure to short screwdriver across the terminal to discharge cap. if it been a few days it will self discharge anyway.

might be time for a new one as well.. get to r134a at least which is no where a good as r-12 for cooling.. that is for sure.
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Old 07-25-2017, 07:37 PM   #9
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Ok I have a little more info to add. Still haven`t been able to remove exterior shroud due to rain. But I did this today and would like feedback on this info .

Switched fan on only and it hummed so I spun the fan and it started up and ran it that way for about 10 min and the voltage in an outlet was on 120 volts during that time.

Switched it to cool and when the compressor kicked on voltage was 118 and started cooling , temp came down to 50 deg air coming out , after 3 min of running the voltage had dropped to 112 volts, still cooling 50 deg air and voltage still gradually dropping , 4 more minutes pass and voltage drops to 100 and compressor cuts out with bumping sound and fan continues to run.
Switched unit off for a minute or so .

Switched the unit back on cool and fan hummed again so I spun it and it started up then the compressor kicked on and voltage was at 108 volts , discharge air cooled back to 50 deg, voltage gradually dropped back to 100 volts in 2 minuites when the compressor cut out and fan continued to run.

Now my question is why is the votage dropping while the compressor is on ? Would the compressor capacitor cause that ? Thanks
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Old 07-25-2017, 09:08 PM   #10
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I looked up a Penguin wiring diagram. It indicates there is a dual run capacitor for both the fan and compressor. The compressor has an independent overload shutoff. So it seems reasonable that the compressor would shut off and the fan would keep running.

I think it is certainly reasonable that the capacitor is bad and the compressor is overheating and drawing progressively more current causing the voltage to drop.

If this were mine I would risk a few bucks to change the cap against replacing the unit. It sounds like the compressor refrigerant loop is working, given your exit air temperature. If the fan is not up to speed, that could cause the pressures to rise, making the compressor work harder and harder.

Al
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Old 07-25-2017, 09:56 PM   #11
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Ok, this is from my very recent experience----yesterday. My 11 year old Penguin failed. Starting, stopping, slowing down, etc. I suspected it was a capacitor, and I was right. It is now running like a new one. Lou is a happy camper once again, and all is right in my world. I hope your problem turns out to be so minor.
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Old 07-26-2017, 03:35 AM   #12
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Thanks. I will try the capacitors first.
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Old 07-26-2017, 01:57 PM   #13
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Tn traveler

Which cap did you replace, got a pic?

Gary
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Old 07-27-2017, 05:26 AM   #14
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Sorry, no pictures.
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Old 07-27-2017, 05:51 AM   #15
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Tn traveler

Did you replace the big cap?

How much was the part, got a part number?

I had my cover off recently and the access panel saw a big cap in front tucked down in there.

Gary
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Old 07-27-2017, 06:03 AM   #16
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Tn traveler

Did you replace the big cap?

How much was the part, got a part number?

I had my cover off recently and the access panel saw a big cap in front tucked down in there.

Gary
Yeah, I think that's the one. Since, I was travelling I asked them to e-mail the invoice. They have not sent it. They charged $69.00 for the part. It was the large one, and was pulled out near the front on the curb side.
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Old 07-27-2017, 03:01 PM   #17
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I did just receive the invoice via e-mail. They didn't list the part #, but just a start capacitor.
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Old 07-30-2017, 12:33 AM   #18
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Sorry, no pictures.


Post a pic of you pointing and smiling... dig old from trash and use for skeet practice... after you take a oicture🤠
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Old 07-31-2017, 10:32 AM   #19
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Post a pic of you pointing and smiling... dig old from trash and use for skeet practice... after you take a oicture🤠

I think you just might take a pic of the small black cap under the big cap after you get that one out. It's a trophy. "Motor starting cap 43-53uF".
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Old 07-31-2017, 05:24 PM   #20
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Ok this is a picture of the old start and run capacitors. I just replaced both of them.
The start cap # 3100236235 $ 17.20. Run cap # 3313107028. $ 41.71

Results are fan operates normally now .[emoji106]

After selecting cool mode it ran 10 min and producing cool air as before and voltage gradually started dropping from 112 volts and then after 15 min the voltage dropped to 100 and the breaker inside the trailer tripped.

Did not trip any breakers before the capacitors were changed.

Any ideas ?


I was sure hoping these parts were the problem[emoji853]
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