New Dometic AC prevents MicroAir install

[Tony Lee]

the NEW Dometic AC units have incorporated “Dometic’s” own proprietary soft starter and you CANNOT install a MicroAir system.

Pretty much covers it doesn't it!

[Micro-Air]

Originally Posted by GMFL

I was installing a Brand NEW 15K Dometic Penguin II yesterday and in prepping the unit to install a MicroAir 364 SoftSTART I noticed the unit did not have a Start Capacitor or PTCR dispute the wiring diagram showing them.
Not wasting anytime I called my buddy Kevin at MicroAIR for a quick consult.
He informed me that the NEW Dometic AC units have incorporated “Dometic’s” own proprietary soft starter and you CANNOT install a MicroAir system. I not sure how I feel about this.....
I have not been able to run the unit for testing because the unit also requires a CCC2 10 button thermostat and it has not arrived yet.

As soon as I can I will report on the ability to run the unit off a single 2000 watt generator.
Here’s a few pics of the board.

Hi GMFL. We're just seeing your thread now since we don't peer into the forum all the time. I don't think what you were told is entirely true. Based upon your photos, it appears you have a garden variety Dometic Penguin II with the CCC2 control board, meant to plug into the Multi-zone thermostat. Same as it ever was. Is there another wiring diagram that you didn't photograph? Note the EasyStart always gets mounted outside of the electric box on Penguin IIs now.

Please let us know if we're missing something here.

Thank you again to everyone here for your undying support of EasyStart.

[Iansk]

Originally Posted by Micro-Air

Hi GMFL. We're just seeing your thread now since we don't peer into the forum all the time. I don't think what you were told is entirely true. Based upon your photos, it appears you have a garden variety Dometic Penguin II with the CCC2 control board, meant to plug into the Multi-zone thermostat. Same as it ever was. Is there another wiring diagram that you didn't photograph? Note the EasyStart always gets mounted outside of the electric box on Penguin IIs now.

Please let us know if we're missing something here.

Thank you again to everyone here for your undying support of EasyStart.

I installed one of your units several month ago and it really makes a difference.
Your customer service (except the crotchety guy who answered the phone one time) is outstanding. Thank you for your product and company, I push you to anyone who will listen.

Ian

[Micro-Air]

Originally Posted by Iansk

I installed one of your units several month ago and it really makes a difference.
Your customer service (except the crotchety guy who answered the phone one time) is outstanding. Thank you for your product and company, I push you to anyone who will listen.

Ian

Hi Ian. You definitely made my evening! LMAO on the "crotchety guy". I'm going to mount a serious investigation tomorrow to find out who that was!! In spite of our relentless efforts to provide customer service that is second to none, there might be a few moments of frustration that could lead to such behavior.

[primepower]

I just installed a couple of these on my 2018 classic. Great customer service, easy installs other than being on the roof. If we ever get to go out I'll test them but they ran fine during the learning process and they are definitely quieter on start up.

[GMFL]

I worked with MicroAir air today and even though this unit does not have the Start CAP and other commonly seen components we were able to install the 364 unit and it works great!
MicroAir has always had superb customer service. Thanks to Kevan and Nick for all your help.

[Micro-Air]

Originally Posted by GMFL

I worked with MicroAir air today and even though this unit does not have the Start CAP and other commonly seen components we were able to install the 364 unit and it works great!
MicroAir has always had superb customer service. Thanks to Kevan and Nick for all your help.

Awesome! Mystery solved then. Glad to hear it. I'll make sure I pass along your thanks to Nick and Kevin.

[GMFL]

Originally Posted by Micro-Air

Awesome! Mystery solved then. Glad to hear it. I'll make sure I pass along your thanks to Nick and Kevin.

Yes, initially when I talked to Kevin he had stated the unit could not be installed.
We’ve all learned something here.
Keep up the great work guys.

[DCPAS]

Originally Posted by Micro-Air

Awesome! Mystery solved then. Glad to hear it. I'll make sure I pass along your thanks to Nick and Kevin.

OK. Now I'm confused. I plan to install mine this weekend on a Penguin II with heat pump and a Multi-zone thermostat. Is there something in the Micro-Air instructions that needs to be changed? Like did the start capacitor disappear?

[Micro-Air]

Originally Posted by DCPAS

...Is there something in the Micro-Air instructions that needs to be changed? Like did the start capacitor disappear?

Hello DCPAS. No, the instructions do not need to be changed. The removal or disconnecting of any system's optional start cap, along with its associated PTCR, have always been a part of the instructions. If your system has a start cap and PTCR provided by the OEM, disconnect it and/or remove them. If your system does not have these, then you have one less step to do.

[DCPAS]

Originally Posted by Micro-Air

Hello DCPAS. No, the instructions do not need to be changed. The removal or disconnecting of any system's optional start cap, along with its associated PTCR, have always been a part of the instructions. If your system has a start cap and PTCR provided by the OEM, disconnect it and/or remove them. If your system does not have these, then you have one less step to do.

Awesome. Thank you for the response.

[Tony Lee]

Originally Posted by BayouBiker

The Dometic SmartStart and the MicroAir 364 are quite similar. The concept and design is the same, the specs are very similar, they perform nearly the same and reduce inrush by the same 65%. I don't know which is more reliable, but there are advantages to having all components supported by the same company.

If this is correct, isn't it a bit sus of the add-on manufacturer to be pushing their product if it involves deliberately disabling a perfectly good oem product.
Or to express it more simply, why shell out a heap of extra money when you have already paid for the oem product

[Micro-Air]

Originally Posted by Tony Lee

If this is correct, isn't it a bit sus of the add-on manufacturer to be pushing their product if it involves deliberately disabling a perfectly good oem product.
Or to express it more simply, why shell out a heap of extra money when you have already paid for the oem product

Hi Tony Lee. Your question is a valid one, and I can understand the confusion. A lot of misinformation was running rampant here that caused all of this. There are a couple points that were not made clear in the previous replies, so I will attempt to address them here.

As the wiring diagram in GMFL photo clearly shows, the new Dometic Penguin II that he has does not include a soft start inside. GMFL spotted the fact that his new Dometic Penguin II units were no longer including the built-in hard start kit (i.e. start capacitor plus PTCR). The confusion began when GMFL was then (mis)informed by someone he knows at Dometic that stated they were now including a proprietary soft start instead. GMFL then called Micro-Air and one of our staff members further added to the confusion by (incorrectly) stating that EasyStart could not be installed anymore. All of the above was total misinformation, and that Micro-Air staff member has subsequently been internally rebuked and corrected.

So, the truth is that GMFL's new Dometic Penguin II unit did not come with a soft start installed. The related discussion about the hard start kit (i.e. start capacitor plus PTCR) has been clarified in that if the A/C unit no longer includes a built-in hard start, its removal step in the EasyStart installation process can simply be skipped.

I hope the above clears things up for you and everyone else. Thank you again for your support of the EasyStart product.

[lsbrodsky]

good job, good info! Business as usual!
Larry

[Ephraim]

And Airstream isn't above those tactics either. I recently had the Zip-Dee automatic awning controller box fail due to water damage. Airstream tried to tell me it was the RO water system I installed that caused the problem and they wouldn't cover it under warranty. Thank goodness I had pictures of the problem that Zip-Dee had me take before I took it into the local dealer. They had installed the control box directly under the sink trap which was leaking the day we picked it up.

The dealer tried to convince me that it was he who had convinced Airstream to cover it under warranty, but Airstream still tried to tell me I had to remove my RO water system or they would void the warranty.

Of course the fix was simple (after the leak was fixed). I had the dealer move the control box about 6 inches forward so it was under the cabinet rather than under the trap.

If you look on micro-air's site, you'll see a statement that if the manufacture claims that their product caused the failure, they will cover the cost of the repair.

Originally Posted by Life is a Highway

As an AMSOIL dealer for over 35 years I've had to battle this for my customers. Of course at the time having an automotive radio talk show helped.

I’m not here to sell AMSOIL but I DO like and believed in the Micro Air people. Have had had to tell my Airstream friends about the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.

If an company employee states you HAVE To use their product then the company must provide it to you for free. That usually raises eyebrows. Had a Toyota dealer tell me our AMSOIL oil filter would void warranty. I said great news you install yours for free right. They backed down. Thanks for bringing this to the forum's attention.




If your AC doesn't have a factory installed softstart built in, then you can install a MicroAir unit. I've had my sister-in-law, who's an attorney, who said under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, Dometic would have to prove (not just tell you) the problem was caused by MicroAir. Makes sure you know and understand your rights. The manufacturers figure you don't know and aren't happy when you are.

Also talk to MicroAir about how they stand behind their product doesn't cause problems.

I've been through this when another company claimed an add-on I installed on a vehicle had caused a failure. I brought up the Magnuson-Moss Act and was transferred up to a higher level. When they denied the claim again, I called back, asked if they could prove the add-on was the cause of the issue and was told take it to a dealer who said the add-on was not the cause of the problem. The vehicle manufacturer, who will remain GM, finally agreed to fix it when the dealer and I pointed out GM had issued a TSB on the same problem for the past 3 years. They fixed it and paid for the 53 days of car rental (a Mustang GT) due to the vehicle being out of service. Plus they offered me a $3000 discount on any new GM vehicle I would buy in the next 90 days. Went and bought a Ford.

[/QUOTE]

[Shiny16]

What’s an RO water system ?

[GMFL]

Originally Posted by Micro-Air

Hi Tony Lee. Your question is a valid one, and I can understand the confusion. A lot of misinformation was running rampant here that caused all of this. There are a couple points that were not made clear in the previous replies, so I will attempt to address them here.

As the wiring diagram in GMFL photo clearly shows, the new Dometic Penguin II that he has does not include a soft start inside. GMFL spotted the fact that his new Dometic Penguin II units were no longer including the built-in hard start kit (i.e. start capacitor plus PTCR). The confusion began when GMFL was then (mis)informed by someone he knows at Dometic that stated they were now including a proprietary soft start instead. GMFL then called Micro-Air and one of our staff members further added to the confusion by (incorrectly) stating that EasyStart could not be installed anymore. All of the above was total misinformation, and that Micro-Air staff member has subsequently been internally rebuked and corrected.

So, the truth is that GMFL's new Dometic Penguin II unit did not come with a soft start installed. The related discussion about the hard start kit (i.e. start capacitor plus PTCR) has been clarified in that if the A/C unit no longer includes a built-in hard start, its removal step in the EasyStart installation process can simply be skipped.

I hope the above clears things up for you and everyone else. Thank you again for your support of the EasyStart product.

Allow me to state this.
MicroAir is a GREAT company and has been more than helpful through-out any interaction I’ve had with them.
I regret posting this confusing scenario on a public forum.
I WAS give BAD information by both Dometic and MicroAir. When I was told by Dometic it would not work I called MicroAir and that info was incorrectly confirmed. It was BAD info and a misunderstanding. That’s unfortunate, BUT the problem has been resolved with NEW, GOOD info from MicroAir.
Those guys are AWESOMELY dedicated to helping their customers.

The MicroAir 364 is an excellent product! It is an accentual piece to any Airstreamer that wants to run their AC on a smaller 2000watt series generator.

I will be installing two on my new 30’ GT soon.

Again. This whole problem was due to quick misinformation and misunderstanding. I took that info at face value and jumped off the bridge with it.
It is my fault for posting that info to a public forum. It is never my intent to spread wrong data. I regret that I did.

As stated previously. “Business as usual”. Move along people nothing to see here......

[rmkrum]

Originally Posted by Shiny16

What’s an RO water system ?

RO stands for “Reverse Osmosis”. They are systems that use water pressure to force water through a membrane that lets water molecules through whilst blocking out larger molecules such as lead, other contaminants and basically produce very clean water.

They typically have several filter cartridges before the membrane to get gross contamination out of the water, then the output of the RO part id run through a carbon filter to clean out any chlorine or other stuff from the water.

They produce very good drinking water, but they do waste some of the water fed into them to flush contaminated stuff away from the RO element. Typically dumps about 1/10 to 1/3 of the input water down the drain.

[Micro-Air]

Originally Posted by Ephraim

If you look on micro-air's site, you'll see a statement that if the manufacture claims that their product caused the failure, they will cover the cost of the repair.

Hi Ephraim. We appreciate your post and totally understand where you and the other Airstream owners are coming from. As you noted, Micro-Air has been down this road many times, including the research into the Magnuson-Moss Act. We got tired of hearing the OEMs say its okay to install the Micro-Air EasyStart on one day, and then the next day hear our customers report that when they called in to an OEM to ask they same question, they were told it was not okay!

As a result, and as you duly noted, Micro-Air is so confident in its EasyStart products that it is now offering the Double-Down warranty on any newly-purchased and installed EasyStarts free-of-charge for any RV A/C unit that is 2014 or newer. The details and registration requirements for this compressor coverage are described at this link.

Micro-Air appreciates the support, and wants to reciprocate wherever possible.

[Shiny16]

Originally Posted by rmkrum

RO stands for “Reverse Osmosis”. They are systems that use water pressure to force water through a membrane that lets water molecules through whilst blocking out larger molecules such as lead, other contaminants and basically produce very clean water.

They typically have several filter cartridges before the membrane to get gross contamination out of the water, then the output of the RO part id run through a carbon filter to clean out any chlorine or other stuff from the water.

They produce very good drinking water, but they do waste some of the water fed into them to flush contaminated stuff away from the RO element. Typically dumps about 1/10 to 1/3 of the input water down the drain.

Thanks