Ducted Air

[RVDreamer]

Originally Posted by Msmoto

Just a note on the original topic....LOL. My new Serenity 30RB arrived at the OutOfDoorsMart yesterday and when I did a quick walk through did not realize the A/C was on except that it was cool. This may be as quiet or possibly quieter than my Allegro Bus. I will be doing a full report on this unit as it has the UltraLeather recliners, power awning, XM Satellite radio, rear camera, and new for 2015, curtains on all the bedroom windows for much better privacy. I think Airstream may be listening to some of us.

I would love to see your review and lots of pics. We are looking to purchase a 2015 27FB serenity. We are waiting to hear more on the new units and to see photos of the new "Salsa Ultraleather" and new flooring. My wife loves the current Serenitys.

[jcanavera]

Originally Posted by Endodoc

Apparently there is no access to the units from the inside. Could this not be an issue when there are problems with leaks, drains, etc?

Typically access to ducted AC units is through the return air panel. In my sob there was a center mounted panel which was flush with the ceiling right below the AC unit. It was a large panel that was perforated for return air. A filter sat above the panel and when you removed it you had access to the underside of the AC unit. Much like removing the lower cover on the units that aren't ducted.

Jack

[Endodoc]

An earlier post described only circular outlet vents and a couple of rectangular intake vents.

[Msmoto]

Today with the fans on high I was able to talk on my iPhone with no problem. And the other party was with an accent as I was obtaining authorization for my Sirius radio. My unit has the two A/C option.

Delivery will be in a couple of days as my dealer, Out of Doors Mart, has several sold units in front of mine to deliver.

My "report" will no doubt be next week and photos to follow. But, this unit has huge improvements over my 2009 International Ocean Breeze 27FB. When the outside temp was in the 90's, inside was 74 degrees.

More to come.

[rodsterinfl]

I don't think you can gauge anything from a completely different trailer.

Not necessarily about the new AS ducted models but it puts a hole in the generalization that ducted air is quieter as this sampling shows. We know from my results that 61dB (rounded) and 62db aren't different enough to notice humanly.

A second question that this creates for me is, can the unit run at a lower fan speed and not freeze up the unit? If that is possible, then it would be quieter on lower speeds. My non-ducted unit requires that I run the fan on high at all times- not for cool air (cold either way) but to keep from freeze up. My prediction is that the units will still need the airflow and need to be run on high at all times to avoid the freeze up.

Perhaps these new AS have one up on other manufacturers with ducted air?

[jcanavera]

Typically, assuming your unit is charged properly and you have no airflow restrictions, freeze ups typically occur in high humidity situations. I run my 15K unit on the automatic setting which cycles the blower on and off. It also controls the fan speed and runs the fan at the low setting unless the difference between the inside temperature and set point is 10 degrees or more.

I've only had one freeze up occur and that was with my sob in Destin Fl. The service guy who came to our site said it was a common occurrence in that part of the country and advised us to run the fan speed on high.

Jack


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[overlander63]

Originally Posted by hemi

Also the no crank up tv antenna is great also no booster button to remember!

There may be no more antenna crank, but there most certainly is a booster button. It is probably located behind the main television, which IMHO is much too large. It covers the entire area from the inside skin to the edge of the hallway, the booster button should be near the wall, and the only way to tell if it is on or not is to look for the green glow reflecting off the shiny interior wall.

[PharmGeek]

I heard from my dealer that you still hear the compressor kick on all the same but he says that it is much quieter when in operation

So at night if very quiet you will notice the pang noise of the compressor I suppose much like the one I hear now but crowd it out with leaving fan in medium not auto

I'll be interested to hear more about how quiet the ducted air is and eventually measurements - cause I am a geek

[GAStreamin]

I'm still thinking I like the noisy unit so I will take your unit if you decide you want a quieter one. Lol


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[overlander63]

Originally Posted by PharmGeek

I heard from my dealer that you still hear the compressor kick on all the same but he says that it is much quieter when in operation

So at night if very quiet you will notice the pang noise of the compressor I suppose much like the one I hear now but crowd it out with leaving fan in medium not auto

I'll be interested to hear more about how quiet the ducted air is and eventually measurements - cause I am a geek

I don't have a meter, but it is a LOT quieter.
In an identical trailer with an identical television, volume has to be at 50 or more volume setting to plainly hear it. With ducted air, you can clearly hear the same program (local weather channel) at a volume setting of 30.

[PharmGeek]

That is the cool premise of ducted air - that fan is über noisy in my unit

My volume with the surround is not a bother to me but I can totally see the benefit!

[hhendrix]

Originally Posted by rodsterinfl

When I got my AS I changed the air distribution box right after our first trip. It made a huge difference in airflow.

Could you provide some more information on this please?

[Msmoto]

Great questions. Of course only a scientific study would be of use to those who want the hard evidence, but, a couple of notes. My 2009 Int Ocean Breeze 27FB could run the A/C on low without freezing. The ducted A/C in my Allegro bus could run all night on low with no freezing problem.

About the noise, it makes little difference what the numbers show because it is a subjective conclusion arrived at based only on one's knowledge base. For me, the new ducted A/C is markedly less noisy.


Ms Tommie Lauer
Greensboro, NC
2015 Serenity 30 RB arriving in June

[mefly2]

Subjectively, my unscientific ear says that ducted fans at the same distance and output will normally sound quieter than the non-ducted variety. Certainly being able to hear the television with the A/C powered up is a very positive consideration and IMHO a significant subjective measurement.
Stay tuned; we just put down a deposit on a 2015 today! So, those of you who say that you actually prefer the noise from the earlier units may seek out our trade in at AANW in Seattle; Eddie is a beauty!
No offense meant, but why do these threads so often degenerate into old is better than new ... ??? I am an older phart but I do appreciate the technological improvements ... I like the large flat screen TV and have no difficulty seeing if the booster is turned on ...it beats an older one where we had to look under the table!

[graysailor]

Aside from the noise the AC in my 2013 Cloud does not cool down the rear bedroom.

[rodsterinfl]

No offense meant, but why do these threads so often degenerate into old is better than new ... ???

I do not take it as that with regard to this thread. The discussion is on ducted air. Another question might be raised as, is newer always better? Aside from condition of course. Naturally one can update and certainly ducted air draws a considerable interest to the AS crowd as a new design. My hope is that it is better- the AC design needs to be improved upon in RVs. I have now, as of today heard now four different ducted systems running in SOBs- now two in Colemans that I reported on with a sound meter to compare to my own AC running on high, and two Class A motorhomes- Thor diesel and one Newmar Baystar gas. I did not have the meter for those but The Thor Palazzo AC was awful. Besides the air blower sound there was a panel rattling somewhere in the ceiling, not a vent and it was a talk over it situation.The salesman was going to write up a ticket on it for service. The other one was quieter but don't know how much. The motor was in the front too so there was that sound. Today was perfect to look as it was 97 degrees and AC would be required.

I can talk, watch TV, etc with my air on. It is the same dB level as riding in my truck@70mph.Reviewing the threads here, some of us have different setups. I have a basic controls on unit model. I have to set the temp knob (variable) and fan speed (two settings) and, I live in FL where the one poster mentioned freeze ups are common- which, there is a reason for that- unit overcooling/airflow. That would not be less the case in a lower humidity area. Also, I have a low profile penguin unit. As I have said, my unit is very quiet motor-wise. Outside the AS and inside. The noise is the air blowing sound. That is what I heard in the Colemans and the MHs. The Colemans sounded like they had a unit at each outlet. The blowing sound is not diminished because the vents are unlocalized. The meter indicated it too! My point is not to attack what I do not have but to investigate this perceived improvement.

I will eventually get to test an Airstream ducted system with meter.

BTW, when I was at the Rally last year, there was a couple who visited my AS to hear the AC unit running. They had a 2010 Ocean Breeze that they said the AC was super loud and wondered what other units sounded like. I invited them. They said it was definitely quieter but again, subjective. I wonder if there was a difference in the gas used in the units and the noise level?

[overlander63]

The design of the ceiling assembly in the non ducted units was changed a couple of years ago, and I do not think the end result was a positive one. The new ones are much noisier, as well as no longer being able to use a heat strip in them. On the positive side, the newer ceiling assembly looks better, is lower profile, and has fewer sharp corners for taller people to whack their heads on.

[SteveSueMac]

Side note: there are lots of decibel/Db meters you can download from app stores for $1 or free. They may not be accurate enough for science but likely accurate enough within their own app to judge a difference between ducted and non ducted in relative terms. Have fun! :-)

[TinLoaf]

I was in both the 2015 Classic and the Land Yacht that Airstream presented at Alumapalooza. I was happy to see the ducted A/C and asked the representative to turn on the system specifically to hear how much the noise was reduced.

Maybe my expectations were too high, but I was seriously disappointed that it didn't reduce the noise much. I know that goes against what other people are saying, but that was my observation.

Here are a few photos that show the a/c.

[rodsterinfl]

As a side note, I was up ridiculously late last night to find a discussion on wanderlodgeowners.com about Dometic changes that linked to a Dometic article. In 2010 following EPA requirements they changed to R410 refrigerant. The change required a different compressor/system. They called it Penguin II with improvements but the change was not an improvement. They used "hard grommets as sound deadeners for the compressor mount which transfers noise" and some of the owners got a hold of a service bulletin that shows refitted soft grommets with white dots on them. Supposedly it makes the units quieter "like the older penguin models" as far as the motor is concerned. Still digging for more info.

I like that counter and floor in the Land Yacht TinLoaf. I think the changes have brought AS up to par with the market.

Great idea SteveSueMac. I will download right away and compare readings to the meter.