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Old 06-02-2008, 06:48 PM   #1
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1970 31' Sovereign
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Armstrong A/C Question

We just got our Airstream in April, and I have never ran the A/C before. Could someone please tell me if this is normal? The Trailer is a 1970 Sovereign, and the A/C unit is an Armstrong TR21-12.

I was out camping with the family this past weekend, and was in a camping spot that was about 50 feet from the electrical hook-up. I did not have enough of the Airstream's Black 30 Amp power cable to make it to the hook up. I did have a stout 20 Amp Extension cord so I made due, until Sunday afternoon ( without trying to run the A/C).

Finally, Sunday afternoon after I pulled out of our site, I snuck into another site, and tried to run our A/C, directly off of the Airstream's 30A power cord.

It got about 5 minutes of "stick time" with the A/C unit. The outside air temp was 84 F. this inside temp was close to that, because all the windows and vents had been closed for 1/2 hour plus. I cranked the thermostat to it's lowest setting, Switched from OFF to COOL, and selected high.

The fan came on loud and strong. My wife said a bunch of leaves and crap blew out the top like a salad shooter. Inside, unaware of the display outside, I believe the fan ran steady and strong, but it sounded like the compressor was pulsing every 15 seconds or so. I question this and would like to know if this is normal. We have a Trane "Pulse" furnace in our home, and this is the same sound it makes under normal heating conditions.

I believe the exhaust air temp inside dropped about 3 degrees, (I have one of those IR guns that reads remote temps, brought it with to verify refrig/freezer temp on the old Dometic) but like I said, only ran the A/C for about 5 minutes.

Any comments would be grately appreciated. Sure would like to know if this thing is working O.K. I am more concerned about the pulsing compressor sound. Even if it cools, and this is not normal, I would not want to take a chance on burning up the compressor.

Could someone who has had experience with this unit please chime in with their comments?

Thank you!!!
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Old 06-03-2008, 03:30 PM   #2
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I don't think this sounds normal. Every 15 seconds or so makes me think there may be a problem with the thermostat or possibly the wiring. Our Armstrong runs strong and cold (and loud) until the thermostat pulls it back.

By the way, you can pick up a 30Amp extension cord at Camping World. Don't need it often, but...

Good luck.
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Old 06-03-2008, 03:37 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gael79
We just got our Airstream in April, and I have never ran the A/C before. Could someone please tell me if this is normal? The Trailer is a 1970 Sovereign, and the A/C unit is an Armstrong TR21-12.

I was out camping with the family this past weekend, and was in a camping spot that was about 50 feet from the electrical hook-up. I did not have enough of the Airstream's Black 30 Amp power cable to make it to the hook up. I did have a stout 20 Amp Extension cord so I made due, until Sunday afternoon ( without trying to run the A/C).

Finally, Sunday afternoon after I pulled out of our site, I snuck into another site, and tried to run our A/C, directly off of the Airstream's 30A power cord.

It got about 5 minutes of "stick time" with the A/C unit. The outside air temp was 84 F. this inside temp was close to that, because all the windows and vents had been closed for 1/2 hour plus. I cranked the thermostat to it's lowest setting, Switched from OFF to COOL, and selected high.

The fan came on loud and strong. My wife said a bunch of leaves and crap blew out the top like a salad shooter. Inside, unaware of the display outside, I believe the fan ran steady and strong, but it sounded like the compressor was pulsing every 15 seconds or so. I question this and would like to know if this is normal. We have a Trane "Pulse" furnace in our home, and this is the same sound it makes under normal heating conditions.

I believe the exhaust air temp inside dropped about 3 degrees, (I have one of those IR guns that reads remote temps, brought it with to verify refrig/freezer temp on the old Dometic) but like I said, only ran the A/C for about 5 minutes.

Any comments would be grately appreciated. Sure would like to know if this thing is working O.K. I am more concerned about the pulsing compressor sound. Even if it cools, and this is not normal, I would not want to take a chance on burning up the compressor.

Could someone who has had experience with this unit please chime in with their comments?

Thank you!!!
You must not use an small extension cord.

You should be using a # 8 cord, or better yet, a # 6 cord.

If you continue to use a small cord, you will ruin the compressor.

The cutting off every few minutes is a warning.

Andy
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Old 06-03-2008, 03:57 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In
You must not use an small extension cord.

You should be using a # 8 cord, or better yet, a # 6 cord.

If you continue to use a small cord, you will ruin the compressor.

The cutting off every few minutes is a warning.

Andy
Actually, he said he was using a 20 amp extension cord for the weekend, and avoided using the A/C. He moved temporarily to another site to use a 30 amp plug without the extension cord to test the A/C.

The "pulsing" of the compressor every 15 seconds or so may signal a low refrigerant charge. You'll need to use it some more to know. (There's probably more debris under the cover; you would be well advised to remove the cover and clean things out with a garden hose first so that the condensor fins can properly transfer heat.)

When you test it again, you may find that it cools, but stops cooling after a while. A low refrigerant charge will lead to icing of the evaporator. Using a low fan speed can aggravate icing as well. Turning up the thermostat and letting the fan run for a while gets rid of the ice, but then the cycle gets repeated.
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Old 06-04-2008, 11:00 AM   #5
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Thanks to All...

Thank you one and all for your input. Yeah, I'll have to run it longer, and will remove the shroud and clean well before the next testing. I am considering a 30 Amp outlet near my garage, but that is in the future.

I have a co-worker that thinks the cycling compressor means that the freon is low. I don't know, but if that is the final fix, I'll let everyone know.

Does anyone happen to know if R-12 or R22 was used in this unit???

Thank again,
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Old 06-04-2008, 11:12 AM   #6
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Thank you one and all for your input. Yeah, I'll have to run it longer, and will remove the shroud and clean well before the next testing. I am considering a 30 Amp outlet near my garage, but that is in the future.

I have a co-worker that thinks the cycling compressor means that the freon is low. I don't know, but if that is the final fix, I'll let everyone know.

Does anyone happen to know if R-12 or R22 was used in this unit???

Thank again,
R-12 is never used in an RV roof AC.

R-22 is always used.

Andy
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Old 06-04-2008, 11:39 AM   #7
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A/c

Gael
First determine if the compressor is running or humming.
If it humms for a moment then a click is heard then the humming stops don't try it any more.
Locate a service person before you try to run it again or you could burn up the compressor.
What is happening is the compressor is failing to start and the over current circuit breaker (internal) is tripping out (automatically opening the circuit).
Find an AC service person. A good one you trust.
This could be as simple as a bad run capacitor ($8.00 to $20.00 for the part) or as serious as a stuck compressor (replace the AC).
If the compressor is actually starting the small tubing comming out ot the compressor will start to get really hot.
I kinda doubt that the compressor is actually running. Given the age the run cap is a very good culprit.
The blower motor probally also also has a run cap.
The reason for the run cap is far too long to go into here.
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Old 07-08-2008, 02:41 PM   #8
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OK, I have a related problem. I just bought a 71 Soveriegn out of a weed field where it has sat unopened since 1983. We're still cleaning the mouse droppings and similar debris, but mostly things appear well preserved. On the AC, which is also an Armstrong, I turned it on to see if it would do anything at all and to my surprise it actually came on and started to blow air cooler than the ambient air. Good sign!. But after about a minute it sounded like the compressor kicked off and the fan continued to run. I shut it down and scratched my head for a while, then tried it again. And it did the same thing again. Then quit doing anything at all; like no power to the unit. Maybe a breaker, but I have not found those yet, and all the other 110 VAC systenms seem to work OK. Is the 71 Armstrong worth fixing or should I just replace it and move on?
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Old 07-08-2008, 02:47 PM   #9
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OK, I have a related problem. I just bought a 71 Soveriegn out of a weed field where it has sat unopened since 1983. We're still cleaning the mouse droppings and similar debris, but mostly things appear well preserved. On the AC, which is also an Armstrong, I turned it on to see if it would do anything at all and to my surprise it actually came on and started to blow air cooler than the ambient air. Good sign!. But after about a minute it sounded like the compressor kicked off and the fan continued to run. I shut it down and scratched my head for a while, then tried it again. And it did the same thing again. Then quit doing anything at all; like no power to the unit. Maybe a breaker, but I have not found those yet, and all the other 110 VAC systenms seem to work OK. Is the 71 Armstrong worth fixing or should I just replace it and move on?
Your describing the behavior of an AC that is reacting to an extension cord, that is way to small.

Try plugging the trailer into a "known" AC outlet that has at least a 20 amp rating.

Small extension cords are a death sentence for RV AC's.

Andy
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Old 07-08-2008, 03:28 PM   #10
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I have a 71 overlander with an armstrong and today an ac guy came over to recharge the unit and the is only a lowside valve and not a highside valve. any ideas on where it is??? is it inside??
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Old 07-08-2008, 03:51 PM   #11
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I have a 71 overlander with an armstrong and today an ac guy came over to recharge the unit and the is only a lowside valve and not a highside valve. any ideas on where it is??? is it inside??
Don't need one.

But, if you wish, you can install a line-a-tap in the high pressure side, which is the smaller diameter tubing.

Unless the AC has tons of miles, the compressor will increase the low pressure by a factor of 4.

Therefore if the low side says 75 psi, then the high side will say 300 psi.

Most AC units are filled from the low side, using the ambient exterior temperature as a guide, which will tell the AC guy, what pressure to use on the low side.

Make sure he understands that your AC uses R-22 freon.

Andy
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Old 07-08-2008, 05:40 PM   #12
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Caution is warranted

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Don't need one.

But, if you wish, you can install a line-a-tap in the high pressure side, which is the smaller diameter tubing. ....
Andy is correct in what he says. No high-pressure tap is necessary.

I advise against installing a high-pressure tap UNLESS the tap is silver-soldered in. A self-piercing saddle tap will leak. But since it does not involve evacuating & recharging the system like a properly installed tap does, it is much faster to install. And it will leak.

A self piercing, saddle tap is not a good idea.

Tom
p.s. Did I mention a self piercing, saddle tap will leak?
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Old 07-08-2008, 05:44 PM   #13
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Ac

If there is no high side tap, dont install a saddle clamp on type as they do leak.
You can add gas into the los side until the compressor's run current (requires an AC clamp on amp meter) is atained.

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Old 07-09-2008, 05:24 AM   #14
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Your describing the behavior of an AC that is reacting to an extension cord, that is way to small.

Try plugging the trailer into a "known" AC outlet that has at least a 20 amp rating.

Small extension cords are a death sentence for RV AC's.

Andy
I actually didn't plug into anything but a proper 30 amp supply, but I am sure it was used on an improper supply in the past. I know because when I found the electric cable in the rear bumper it was still connected to a 20 amp cord with an adapter, and the ends of the small cord and the adapter were badly burned from over heating. So, you are correct that this unit has been abused in that way.

Since it did come on and start to cool, and then quit, should we assume it is ruined?

By the way Andy, thanks for your help. I am a park manager in my day job, and we find those small cords and adapters to be the most common misunderstood trouble makers in our campgrounds. They not only kill AC units, but they also burn up campground electrical systems, increase electric costs and cause a lot of outages for the culprits' neighboring campers. You'd be surprised how many otherwise intelligent people will cobble up a Y device to plug a 50 AMP RV into both the 30 and the 20 AMP receptacles, thinking that gives them 50 AMPS. We also see a lot of 14 guage, 100 foot long cheap cords being plugged into the supply and then an adapter out at the end to plug in the 30 or even 50 AMP camper cord. Those folks always call complaigning about power problems. Go Figure.
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Old 07-09-2008, 07:25 AM   #15
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Don't need one.

But, if you wish, you can install a line-a-tap in the high pressure side, which is the smaller diameter tubing.

Unless the AC has tons of miles, the compressor will increase the low pressure by a factor of 4.

Therefore if the low side says 75 psi, then the high side will say 300 psi.

Most AC units are filled from the low side, using the ambient exterior temperature as a guide, which will tell the AC guy, what pressure to use on the low side.

Make sure he understands that your AC uses R-22 freon.

Andy

The low side should be at 150 psi not 75 and the high side at 300 psi but in order to charge you need both high and low
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Old 07-09-2008, 04:39 PM   #16
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The low side should be at 150 psi not 75 and the high side at 300 psi but in order to charge you need both high and low
If you put 150 psi on the low side, please have an ambulance standing by.

That pressure will BLOW UP your AC.

150 psi on the low side would give you 600 psi on the high side. That's unheard of in any system that uses R-22.

Andy
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Old 07-09-2008, 04:48 PM   #17
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I actually didn't plug into anything but a proper 30 amp supply, but I am sure it was used on an improper supply in the past. I know because when I found the electric cable in the rear bumper it was still connected to a 20 amp cord with an adapter, and the ends of the small cord and the adapter were badly burned from over heating. So, you are correct that this unit has been abused in that way.

Since it did come on and start to cool, and then quit, should we assume it is ruined?

By the way Andy, thanks for your help. I am a park manager in my day job, and we find those small cords and adapters to be the most common misunderstood trouble makers in our campgrounds. They not only kill AC units, but they also burn up campground electrical systems, increase electric costs and cause a lot of outages for the culprits' neighboring campers. You'd be surprised how many otherwise intelligent people will cobble up a Y device to plug a 50 AMP RV into both the 30 and the 20 AMP receptacles, thinking that gives them 50 AMPS. We also see a lot of 14 guage, 100 foot long cheap cords being plugged into the supply and then an adapter out at the end to plug in the 30 or even 50 AMP camper cord. Those folks always call complaigning about power problems. Go Figure.
It's your fault, not mine!!!

What do you mean, my extension cord is too light????

My extension cord is "heavy duty".

Yah, right.

Most people don't understand that heavy duty means that you can run over it, and not ruin it.

It has nothing to do with it's current carrying capacity.

Now down to the real business. They above was to generate a laugh or two, that we hear from owners all the time.

If your connectors show signs of heat, I would suggest that you replace them.

A short cycling AC also can be caused by a low charge of frean.

If the short cycling continues after you replace the connectors, then a low freon level is a next probable cause.

The last cause, would be a bad compressor. If that is bad, then replacing the AC is your best option.

Andy
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