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Old 11-07-2012, 02:46 PM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerowood View Post
If you make the joggled piece radiused ...
It's so obvious once you know it! Next time, for sure.

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Old 11-07-2012, 05:41 PM   #142
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Can you guys explain what the joggled piece is? It's not obvious to me at all.
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Old 11-07-2012, 06:15 PM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertair27 View Post
Can you guys explain what the joggled piece is? It's not obvious to me at all.
Instead of just screwing a plate on the bottom of the bellypan, this "U-shaped" piece provides a slip-cover for a small sliding door. Hopefully, it provides some protection from water spray, since the U is pointed to the rear. So you take out the screw holding the sliding cover, pull it back, and you have access to the interior of the belly.

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Old 11-09-2012, 09:23 AM   #144
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This is the large door, open showing the 4-post brake terminal strip. Each wheel has its own post and they are fed by a redundant pair of wires from the 7-way connector. From this easy-to-access port, I can check individual brakes for opens, shorts, or intermitents.

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This was motivated by the intermitent brake line on my Overlander--impossible to trouble shoot in the field and dang hard to get to even in the shop. I finally installed external wires back to the brakes. Ugh.

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Old 11-09-2012, 10:06 AM   #145
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Nice Work Zep.

What keeps the plate from coming out of the slot? Do you have a screw at the end?

Perry
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Old 11-09-2012, 10:19 AM   #146
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Good idea Zep I think I will copy that. Next time I see you I'll get you some terminal strip covers.
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Old 11-09-2012, 11:53 AM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerowood View Post
Good idea Zep I think I will copy that. Next time I see you I'll get you some terminal strip covers.
Probably a good idea, even though I'm confident that it will be dry up there, even though the pan might get damp. Although vibration of the pan might throw water all over the place.

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Old 11-24-2012, 07:30 PM   #148
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The weather is warm, so one more enchancement before I finish installing the belly pan. I have been convinced that the reason the belly pan skins elongate their rivet holes and even rip is that the long unsupported span of skin pulls on the rivets with every bounce and vibration and exceeds the strength of the 0.025 aluminum.

Ergo, a beam across the center of the skin will make me feel better! The installation is a bit complicated, since the beam, being inside, can't attach directly to the frame if you want to remove it with the skin. The exterior plates at the ends are held firmly to the frame with nutplates and 3/16" bolts, which provide a very stiff support for the ends of the beam.

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(Ignore the white plastic on the inside face of the skin--the 0.032 aluminum was cheap and I knew the plastic would be hidden.)

Zep

PS--I admit to being infected with AEROWOOD's overkill in all things aluminum.
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Old 11-25-2012, 02:47 PM   #149
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Answer to kitchen question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeppelinium View Post
70s Airstreams are poorly outfitted when it comes to the kitchen--no drawers, only sliding bins that are not very efficiently designed. Here's what my Safari looked like originally, including the trash left by the previous owner. You can see that there were only two small sliding bins.

Attachment 150615

Attachment 150616

Zep
Better late than never, Zepp: thanks very much for your reply! I got sidetracked somehow and never saw your photos above; they are EXACTLY what I was looking for. The little plastic bins and supporting frame are completely gone from our '77, no "shadows" left for placement, so I really appreciate your photos.

I'm not sure I will replace them exactly, though, since that design seems to waste a lot of precious undercounter storage. I may just continue to use a desk organizer that stores under the counter in travel and sits out on top of the counter when camping. The silverware stands upright in the pencil and pen slots and it works pretty well. Thanks again, and I apologize for the rudeness of my late reply.

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Old 12-30-2012, 10:47 AM   #150
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I wonder if I let these axles sit next to the Safari for another week if they will get any closer to being installed?

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Old 12-30-2012, 11:41 AM   #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeppelinium View Post
I wonder if I let these axles sit next to the Safari for another week if they will get any closer to being installed?

Attachment 175541
They only move when no one is watching, like the rocks at the Race Track in Death Valley.
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Old 12-31-2012, 09:29 AM   #152
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Zep, It appears that you used spray foam around the perimeter of the blue foam board. There are several types of spray foam (for gaps, low expansion, flexible, rigid, etc.) which version did you use, and do you have any concern that it may trap moisture against the frame rails or cross-members? I apologize if you covered that somewhere else in the thread. I did not see it, if you did.

By the way, make sure you do some stretching exercises before power lifting those axles into place.

Thanks
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Old 12-31-2012, 10:37 AM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bauxter View Post
... There are several types of spray foam (for gaps, low expansion, flexible, rigid, etc.) which version did you use, and do you have any concern that it may trap moisture against the frame rails or cross-members? ...
Mike, I used the version that's supposed to remain flexible, I think that's the doors and windows version. It's been applied for months and it's still flexible. INLAND ANDY, like you, is also concerned about failure of the foam due to flexing. We'll just have to see.

As for trapping water, most of my designs are sensitive to that issue. However, when insulating I'm more concerned about air gaps. It's a tradeoff. In order for this insulation to trap water, it would have to leak down through the floor (at a seam or penetration, which is entirely possible). If you inspect the belly pan with the old fiberglass matts installed, you'd be freaked out by how much water the matt wicks up to the frame and the underside of the flooring. This solid foam will not do that.

I worry more about trapping water in between the inner and outer shell. Owners who tightly tape bubble insulation into the shell are very susceptable to that problem, which is one of the reasons I stay with fiberglass matt.

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Old 01-04-2013, 06:15 PM   #154
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Well, it got up to 40į today, and sunny, so I ran out of excuses. The good news is, this first axle practically moved itself. Once I got it balanced on the floor jack (it only fell of a couple times), it was surprisingly easy to move by rolling the jack on the plywood (I can hardly pick these suckers up, so under the trailer there is no hope unless it can move on the jack.).

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Once I got the axle near the axle slots, I moved on end up into the slot using a hydraulic jack (when the axle is balanced on the floor jack, you can almost move it into position with one hand while holding up swing arm to give the axle tube the proper orientation. Grunt. I used a stack of wood to support the axle as I made incremental moves upward.). Anyway, once the tube is in the slot, getting the other end in is a piece of cake. Except, of course, when the axle is a tad long, which requires some gentle crowbaring.

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Even when both ends are tight in the slots, the axle will still have some rotation due to the swing arms and their off-center weight. You need a second hydraulic jack to push up on the aft end of the swing arm to get the axle tube rotated properly, which you can see on the far end of the axle.

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So far, it's not too bad as a solo exercise. I am surprised. The slots in the flanges don't line up with the existing holes in the fish plate, so I'll deal with that tomorrow.

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Old 01-10-2013, 05:21 PM   #155
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Back on wheels

Whoohoo, the Safari is off the blocks and back on running gear! I took the axles off 20Jan12 and got them back on with wheels on 10Jan13. I managed to beat the one year clock! See, honey, when I say I'm going to do something, you don't have to remind me every six months.

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It's been a heck of an Airstream week here at Airstream Doctor--I've managed to do something major on each of mine. I love it when the Airstream mania strikes...

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Old 01-10-2013, 05:49 PM   #156
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Congratulations! Must be a good feeling to your Safari sitting tall with those axles at their load-bearing-best!
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Old 01-19-2013, 06:22 PM   #157
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I'm going to try and get all the banana skin back on in the next few warm days. I'm doing two modifications connected with the rear skins.

First, I'm riveting the curved banana wrap and the connecting triangle of belly skin into one piece. Generally, when you remove this area of skin, you need to remove both of these pieces. The attachment between them is always problematic, anyway, so making them one piece really makes it easy to put on and take off. The real benefit in the rear, however, is that the piece of skin subject to damage by tread separation is this piece. This modification changes the skin pattern so that the skin immediately aft of the tires is only 27" long, instead of 58", so it's easier to remove/replace. It costs 1 extra inch of skin in order to do the overlap joint between them. (the first photo is actually from the Overlander. I didn't put the rib in this one, but it's the same idea--one piece.) (Oops, I didn't do you any favors with the drawing--the photo is of the curb side banana wrap, but the drawing has the triangular part of the skin reversed. However, that shape fits both sides--just flip it over.)

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The other modification is a "protection plate" immediately aft of the tire. On the Overlander I riveted two extra layers of skin in this area, but on the inside face of the skin and made it an integral piece of the skin. So if it gets damaged, the the whole thing would need replacing. I did this to conceal the extra layers of skin, but as you can see below, I don't think that was necessary.

A better idea, I think, is to put a heavy plate on the outside and attach it with machine screws and nutplates. Now the plate can be quickly removed and replaced (4 screws and 4 #30 pop rivets). The banana wrap skin underneath is 0.025 and this plate is only 0.040, so I doubt it will be totally effective. However, I can replace the plate with something thicker when I get my hands on some. Bending the plate around a 3" PVC pipe worked OK, but it's easy to get too much curve, so be careful to put in less than you need and then pull the skin up tight to the curve when you put in the pop rivets.

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The plate is hardly visible and probably wouldn't attract anyone's eye unless they knew it was there.

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Zep
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Old 01-19-2013, 07:09 PM   #158
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Smart idea I see. Why load and unload the blue boy. Just put a hook under the belly and tow it with you
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Old 01-22-2013, 07:43 PM   #159
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Total failure day

OK, I've been able to put the 90 degree roll in the straight 0.025 banana skins by just holding the pipe by hand and sorta leaning on the skin. This did not work for the 70" piece. What I got was several oil can dents with creases and some other ugly creases where the end of the pipe was in the sheet, not hanging over the sheet. Geeze, I hate to throw out a skin that already has been fit and drilled....

So, be forewarned. For longer pieces you need to appropriately clamp them and use long pieces of wood as your bending lever. As it turns out, 70" of even thin stuff like 0.025 is too much to do with clamps.

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I cut the skin down to two pieces and was able to form two very nice skins. They installed and nested into each other almost perfectly (I know Kip will notice the .015 gap in a couple of places...).

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Technique note: The air conditioner drain exits in this area, just ahead of the wheel well. I didn't want to grommet the hole, but I also didn't want the plastic pipe to vibrate in a sharp hole in the skin. I made the hole self-grommeting by drilling a smaller hole, cutting a number of radial slots, and then bending the small leaves into the inside of the skin. This will protect the pipe* without a fat visible grommet.

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* yes, there are a few sharp little corners. Vigorously running a small tube of sand paper through the hole takes care of them.

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Old 01-22-2013, 09:17 PM   #160
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hopeful exuberance here in Zeppelinium land today!

I cut a panel to approximate the wing window size from 2024-T3. As noted above, the full sheet wouldn't even come close to curving into the shape of the shell. I was thinking maybe the smaller piece would do better. Before I could try it out, Aerowood loaned me his roller tool and suggested I give it a try on a shot bag. Not having a shot bag, I settled on a piece of my firm rubber floor mat.

Viola! In about 10 minutes of rolling and a few more minutes running in and out to the Overlander to see if I was getting and effective compound curve, it looks like it's working. I won't be able to fit it to the Safari until Wednesday.

Attachment 55095

The technique is to put your full weight on the roller and move it rapidly (maybe speed has nothing to do with it) back and forth along the lines shown in the photo. Actually, there was a fair amount of orthogonal rolling cross ways and length way, too. The objective was to get the sheet to deform outward [very slightly] approximately where the gray lines converge. This would force the upper outside corner to bend inward the 1/2" that was required.

From the photo it may appear that the panel is only single curved, but even though it's curved more in the lengthwise direction, it's also curved cross-wise, just not as much. Once I can put the panel against the shell I'll see how much more rolling is needed, if any.

The green lines show where the panel edges conformed to the shell without any rolling at all. As you can see, the area of curvature is quite limited.

Zep
Hey Zep, has anyone tried to use heat and cold to help shape a panel? I spent much of the last couple of weeks watching the welders straighten back pretty thick plate with oxy torch and fog-water spray (the welded flange would bend towards the thicker weld, then needs to get straightened back out to meet "profile" specifications). They made the fog spray with a fitting of a tube in a bucket of water into a T at the end of the air line.
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