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Old 06-20-2012, 07:11 PM   #21
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Toilet and floor

I needed to get the toilet out to find out where it was leaking. This was one impossible task--no room for hands, much less tools, behind the toilet. A hammer solved that problem, but I'll probably be looking at the sink drain line as a result. Once I got the toilet out, I realized that I could fix the floor rot easier from the top than the bottom, so out comes the fiberglass surround that was under the toilet. I had to remove one side of the under sink cabinet, then unscrew the toilet flange (using a homemade tool from a previous restoration).

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With the fiberglass out, it was a snap to remove the black tank, just a few screws in the Thetford dump valve, so the valve is out and in the shop for repair. (I hate the think that things are moving right along...Murphy might read my mind.) The next step was to cut away about 10" of the floor, forward to where the wood was sound. You can see the rot in the photo below, about 6" of the rear edge of the floor was essentially dust. As you can see, I still need to remove more floor toward the street side.

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To my surprise and dismay, the toilet was basically sitting unsupported on the fiberglass surround. There was a piece of warped 5/8" plywood on top of the black tank, but it had no edge support at all. I'll have to see if there is space between the tank and the surround to add some support when I reinstall it, but I will be using 3/4" treated exterior plywood, the same as in the floor.

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Old 06-20-2012, 07:15 PM   #22
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Jumble

No matter how small or large the restoration, somehow it gets too crowded to move and all my tools seem to migrate from the shop to the Airstream.

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I hope to start closing this up by the end of the week. That would be a record for me.
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Old 06-20-2012, 08:25 PM   #23
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yeah, that toilet support is what I'm sure caused the demise of my tank...cracked around the flange fitting.

When I got the shower pan out, there was a little bit of dry-rot under there, too...not a lot; possibly salvageable, but I figured at that point, might as well do the whole sheet.

fwiw, mine still had the original univolt, and it was hard-wired. whoever put in the intellipower probably just did the same thing. (no factory installed outlet back there for the converter.). I'm planning to mount a replacement converter the same way...maybe just ditch the shelf altogether. might be a good spot for a second battery, too.

fart fan--useless. but now there's a big hole in the wall. what to do about that? I'd like to see if there's some way to fabricate a new wall panel to replace the original. (sans hole). Also, the panel behind the toilet--if you want to replace the toilet, it might not fit with that little vinyl-covered (useless) compartment. removing that leaves a big hole in that panel, too.


(got the same original gaucho fabric. sweet, isn't it? )
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Old 06-20-2012, 08:50 PM   #24
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I have the same problem with tools—they follow me around but they never put themselves away.

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Old 06-20-2012, 10:39 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck View Post
(got the same original gaucho fabric. sweet, isn't it? )
My goodness, you mean there were two Airstreams built exactly alike? Hard to believe!

I can't tell you how many times I've taken off some PO's fabric to discover the same gold tartan pattern that I've seen in many other Airstreams. It's like a link to the community! This fabric is new to me.

I don't mind removing that useless panel behind the toilet, along with the useless little cabinet. Sameo to the fart fan--I can deal with the hole. Maybe duct tape...

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Old 06-21-2012, 03:35 PM   #26
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Toilet

This is a Galaxy 30. Yes, the valve is broken. Worse, I find out the valve is no longer available. So here goes--you can make the currently available valve work.

First, you have to have a method of testing the toilet. I have a couple of fittings that allow me to hook it up to a hose.

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Second, you order the valve and look at the differences. The mount, operation, and connection to water are the same. But the water goes out a different direction and there is no hook on the new valve for the water-only foot pedal.

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Third, take the whole mechanism out of the toilet by removing 5 screws.

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Note the path of the hose and where the new hose needs to go. Then cut a new hole and shorten the hose to fit the new valve. Hook the spring onto the end of the big spring and put it all back together. Viola! the son of a gun works.

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The new hole could have been a little bit closer to the old hole and a bit to the right, but this works. BTW, you can order a new two-pedal mechanism for $120 (but why would you if a new Style II is available for $180?).

Two things done today--fixed the toilet and the dump valve. Now I need to pay more attention to the floor rot.

Zep
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Old 06-21-2012, 06:30 PM   #27
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Your bathroom floor looks like ours did: not there. The only think keeping our toilet in the trailer was the black tank.
Congrats on saving your water tank. If you still have any gunk sticking to the walls, you could try the denture tablets, but it sounds like you might have gotten it all.

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Old 06-26-2012, 01:18 PM   #28
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It's been a 9-day struggle in the heat to get the floor repaired. We are just not accustomed to this kind of heat, especially in June. It's evidently not good for the rest of the ecology, either--view of Waldo Canyon fire from the Safari in the Monument RV storage area.

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Iput the floor back together with four pieces that were jammed under the "C" channel with a small mallet. They are all held together with a large 3/4" plywood splice piece and 54 #12 screws.

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The toilet support, which was literally non-existant, was a tight fit (that sucker probably isn't coming out unless the closet wall comes out first) but I'm happy with it. The big puzzle for me is that the black tank isn't very square--it's 1/2" less tall on the curb side, which makes for a long reach to screw the toilet flange in. But when I took it out, I don't think it was in more than 1-1/2 turns, anyway. All in all, a pretty bad (may I use the word "crappy" here?) original installation.

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Now for the best part. I've got Safari II home and hooked into 30-amp power. The air conditioner and fridge work! Yippee. What this means is that I can now work in air conditioned comfort!! We don't even have air conditioning in the house!

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The down side is, I can see Safari #1 not getting much attention until the fall...

Zep
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Old 06-26-2012, 01:45 PM   #29
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I did something similar as a temporary floor repair...much less extensive, and I did it all from below. Got quite a few years out of it before I lost my mind and tore it all out.

The tank is sloped toward the outlet. Maybe you can reach around through the closet and stuff a couple of shims there to tilt it back up.
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Old 06-26-2012, 05:35 PM   #30
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Quote:
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I ...The tank is sloped toward the outlet. Maybe you can reach around through the closet and stuff a couple of shims there to tilt it back up.
It occurred to me that that was why the tank was slightly tapered. But there was no sign of any sloping shim on the floor. I hate to put in step shims because I'm afraid of cracking the bottom.

I do have, however, a full flow hose connection available near the toilet, so I can use one of those spray wands to clean things out.

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Old 06-26-2012, 08:10 PM   #31
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now that you mention it, I don't recall seeing anything under there, either...maybe a small scrap of luan(?). Maybe it was being propped up by the toilet flange and the vent stack.

I'll have to keep that in mind about the hose bib. good idea to add something maybe under the sink?
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Old 06-30-2012, 11:29 PM   #32
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Fresh tank re-installed

I am totally flabergasted by the number of steps it takes to get the fresh tank back in:
  1. Saw the tank out, since the old plywood wouldnt budge
  2. Clean the tank
  3. Get a couple of the leaking sensor pads replaced and two new drains spun in
  4. Find the 1" plywood
  5. Protect the upper side and edges of the plywood with spar varnish (hey, this is just a 10-year fix) and the bottom with silver paint (why does it need an aluminum cover, which is just a place to pool water and rot the wood?)
  6. Carve out reliefs in the upper surface to allow easy sliding of the plywood under the new drain fittings and holes for access to the drains
  7. Make better street and curb side shims to hold the tank in place (and that will hold themselves in place while inserting the tank, a real benefit from what I've heard)
  8. Brace the tank up in place
  9. Slide the new tank support into the support channels
This only took a week. Here's the photos...

New drains and modified plywood support. The small amount of relief cut into the face of the plywood helped a lot, but the real help came from the two ramps cut at the holes and at the leading edge of the plywood (the plywood was thinned down to 3/8" at the edges which allowed the 3/4" projection of the fittings to slid right in). This allowed the fittings to slip right up over the plywood as I slid it in. I didn't feel any additional resistance at all:

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Couldn't quite figure out how the street and curb side shims were supposed to fill the main frame "C" channel spaces:

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Made shims that fit into the frame:

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Braced the tank up into position so I could slide the plywood in without another person needed:

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Fabricated two drain covers, using a piece of 1/8" aluminum as the mandrel. The key is using a piece of hardwood (and hammer) to shape the receiver part of the cover. If you use a hammer directly, the aluminum sheet will tear on the mandrel.:

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Safari II is now basically back intact. I need to work on the propane lines, intall the Fantastic Fan and matching Vent, and finish the PEX, but the heavy lifting is done. Whoot!

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Old 07-01-2012, 09:47 AM   #33
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Quote:
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Fabricated two drain covers, using a piece of 1/8" aluminum as the mandrel.
Wow - aren't you clever! Does the closed end of the cover frame (bottom of the U) face forward? And how will you hold the sliding cover in place?

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Old 07-01-2012, 10:39 AM   #34
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I wish I knew you were going to flange the edges of the covers as I have a special tool that will do that in just a minute or two.
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Old 07-01-2012, 11:59 AM   #35
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Wow - aren't you clever! Does the closed end of the cover frame (bottom of the U) face forward? And how will you hold the sliding cover in place?...
No, they face aft. I don't want a water scoop! The sliders are held in with one screw. Zep
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Old 07-01-2012, 12:01 PM   #36
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I wish I knew you were going to flange the edges of the covers as I have a special tool that will do that in just a minute or two.
Now that you remind me, you did tell me about that tool some time ago. I wish I had a brain. Or, more to the point, I am rerouting the propane lines this morning and I wish I had your flare tool.

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Old 07-01-2012, 01:33 PM   #37
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Roger, sounds like the fires are not approaching Palmer Lake now. That's good.

Did you coat the shims with something water repellant?

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Old 07-01-2012, 07:49 PM   #38
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Lookin' good, Zep, as always. I am astounded at your mention of detail when doing even the smallest repair. Makes it easy for the rest of us to follow along and possibly do the same repair ourselves.
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Old 07-01-2012, 08:03 PM   #39
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Roger, sounds like the fires are not approaching Palmer Lake now. That's good.

Did you coat the shims with something water repellant?
As far as the fire goes, things are definitely looking better. But it's not over until it's over. Wind could stir things up, like it did 10 years ago in the Hayman fire.

No, I didn't treat the shims. They are made from the same flooring, eg, exterior grade and rot treated. Plus, they actually sit about 1/4" above the support plywood (they hang on the frame C channel) so if they get wet they will dry out quick. They are not structural, anyway, just filler. I used the old shims for the forward and aft sides--they are still in fairly good shape, just very dry and brittle.

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Old 07-05-2012, 11:25 AM   #40
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PEX and Aluminum Propane Tanks

PEX took longer than I planned--three days instead of one. Some of the crimps were in spots that were hard to get to with the tool, but I only had to use the small clamp-operated tool for two of them. Needless to say, this required several 3 A.M. "planning sessions" to make sure I crimped in the order required to maintain access to later crimps.

There are 57 crimp rings in this installation and I had one leak--I forgot to crimp one ring. Fortunately it was still accessible and, once crimped, did not leak. So my track record for four Airstreams is still zero leaks, which is way better than I used to achieve with sweat copper. I recommend that you rent a pro crimping tool if you're going to do your whole rig.

I had one problem--I used the old relief valve and it was defective. Unfortunately I installed it in a manner that made it hard to remove--I had to cut off the MIP connector in order to unscrew the valve and put a plug in its place. I had ignored my own advice, which is to avoid using a MIP fitting if at all possible. In its place you can use a short nipple and a female swivel, which makes removal almost a finger operation.

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The final installation is much cleaner than the original copper pipe mess. You can see where I removed the relief valve, back under the bathroom sink. The drain valves (hard to see) are 1/4 turn ball valves on the floor under the shower seat, easy to reach and operate. I also included a ball valve to the street water inlet to close that line when not connected to street water. It makes for an easy checkout of the system the first time you put water pressure in it, too. Don't forget the valves for the toilet and water heater--see my PS below for details.

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Some advice on fittings
  • there are a lot of places where your first idea is to use a female swivel, but on second thought the 90 female swivel is a better choice. You can see how it saves room at on the water heater connections and it also can help fair the PEX to the shell when connecting other fixtures.
  • the 90 elbow is a nice looking fitting, but it actually restricts water flow compared to the sweep elbow. If I want to fair the pipe from the floor to the wall and I can't stand the big radius of the pipe bend, I try to use a sweep elbow. A 90 elbow is OK if it's in a line that's going to only one fixture.
  • as I said above, avoid the MIP.
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Aluminum propane tanks are slightly taller than steel. The hold down rod is too short for these tanks. You can extend the rod with a coupling nut (cut off the top of the existing rod, leaving about 3/4" of thread), but the nut is 1-3/4" long and you only have about 2-1/4" to make the fitting and still allow the hold down clamps enough vertical space to clamp the tanks. I wound up with about 1/4" of free play (in the top photo below, you can just see the resulting free play under the hold down bar), which is more than enough to get a secure clamp of the tanks. I also reversed the mount for the regulator--does anyone know why the regulators are usually mounted facing aft (except that you can look out the window and see if the pressure flag is red)?

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Here's a note about the effort, as a yardstick for others who adopt a vintage Airstream (you'd think I know this by now). I think as a rule of thumb you ought to budget $3,000 and 160 hours, once you get your new baby home and start looking at the details.

At this point I'm 19 days, 133 hours of hands-on time, and about $2,800 in parts (wheels, tires, Fantastic Fan/vents, propane tanks, small fittings of one kind or another, battery, LED lights and markers, pump and accumulator) into fixing this "looks good, like it could hit the road today" Airstream into a condition so it can actually hit the road. Note that except for the wheels, it looks exactly like it did 19 days ago--no fixing up of the inside accommodations. It probably needs axles, although these are surprisingly bouncy when I walk around inside.

Zep

PS--you want a cutoff valve for the toilet, since it has the most fragile valve in the whole Airstream. If you accidently let it freeze, you can close the shutoff and still use 99% of the capability of your trailer and fix it later. You can also blow out the water system, then close that valve and use your trailer in the winter without worrying about the toilet.

You want a valve on the water heater for two reasons--you can close off the hot water side of you pipes, including the water heater (who knows when these old heaters will fail/perforate?), and you can drain your water system for those really cold nights without losing the 6 gallons in the heater, which is significant if you're boondocking.

You may want to include shutoffs for all your fixtures--the small ball valves are less than $4. I don't think it's worth it, but if you have a fixture that starts leaking, it's could be good insurance and allow you to finish a trip without diverting for repairs.
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