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Old 10-12-2012, 06:56 AM   #2681
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Port O'Connor Texas yesterday. Speedy Stop Exxon/Mobil
Reg. $ 3.55
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Old 10-12-2012, 07:49 AM   #2682
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Republic of Texas. I like that.

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Old 10-13-2012, 04:37 AM   #2683
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Originally Posted by Jaxon View Post
Thatís not government, thatís the market and big oil. They look like theyíre doing their best to level out that playing field.
I think Uncle Sam has a bit of influence, with just a few regulations and permits.. Oh, and let's not forget taxes.

The oil companies won't miss any opportunity though, to raise prices.
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Old 10-13-2012, 05:55 AM   #2684
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GettinAway

I think Uncle Sam has a bit of influence, with just a few regulations and permits.. Oh, and let's not forget taxes.

The oil companies won't miss any opportunity though, to raise prices.
The same regs were in place before the runup in gas prices. There are more drilling rigs in the US than before the Gulf of Mexico problem. We're digging in Wyoming and North Dakota. And we're using less gas. The pipeline from Canada will allow for the exportation of gas. Sure wish we could find something else as this whole thing is just crazy.
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Old 10-13-2012, 09:30 AM   #2685
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Western PA - Diesel $4.25 Per Gallon

Pre 2009 - $2.15 Per Gallon
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Old 10-14-2012, 10:20 AM   #2686
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The same regs were in place before the runup in gas prices. There are more drilling rigs in the US than before the Gulf of Mexico problem. We're digging in Wyoming and North Dakota. And we're using less gas. The pipeline from Canada will allow for the exportation of gas. Sure wish we could find something else as this whole thing is just crazy.
No intention to offend, but what changed in the last 4 years? I don't think "corporate profits" are a new idea.. Fewer oil companies, so they can fix prices?? Pretty significant increase in last four years. Speculators? Everyone's favorite villain.
I still think the effects from DC are a significant portion of this run up.. I could be wrong, it sure won't be the first time..
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Old 10-14-2012, 10:53 AM   #2687
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Originally Posted by GettinAway View Post
No intention to offend, but what changed in the last 4 years? I don't think "corporate profits" are a new idea.. Fewer oil companies, so they can fix prices?? Pretty significant increase in last four years. Speculators? Everyone's favorite villain.
I still think the effects from DC are a significant portion of this run up.. I could be wrong, it sure won't be the first time..
Iím not so sure the oil companies are not flexing their muscles in terms of pricing (& supply via refineries), in an effort to influence our decisions. Theyíll seek whatever environment thatíll benefit them, regardless of what party that is. As to regulations, they werenít thought up just to make trouble, they are as a result of excesses, most of which have been harmful, IMHO. Wish I knew the truth of it all but I donít, so Iím left to my own fantasies and conspiricies...
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Old 10-14-2012, 12:34 PM   #2688
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The federal gas tax is 18.4Ę and has been for a long time. This is a small portion of the total price. State taxes are more than twice that (except Wyo.) and some are around 3 times federal tax. Some conservative states have among the highest state taxes.

The Keystone pipeline is mainly to transport oil to Gulf ports for export and will have little or no effect on US prices. Actually, by making it easier to transport oil from the US, it may decrease US supplies.

The federal agency that regulates the commodities market has tried to lessen speculation and passed a rule to that effect a couple of months ago. It was challenged in court and is on hold.

Petroleum products are a commodity and subject to the world market. The world market is motivated by supply and demand and demand in the developing world is increasing. The biggest auto market in the world is now China and no one can stop that except the Chinese and they won't. But they are building high speed rail because they know it is necessary to efficiently move people.

The smart country is Brasil (that's the way they spell it). Decades ago when they had little domestic oil production, they concentrated on ethanol from sugar cane and made themselves independent of the world market. Since, they have discovered some large fields offshore and are in better shape. Here, established energy companies have lots of clout and can prevent or slow conversion to alternative sources of fuel.

Oil and gas companies have secured a large number of leases on federal land in the past decade and a very large proportion of those leases remain undeveloped. The newly discovered fields under private land (ND for ex.) are more likely producers and cheaper than drilling thousands more feet down in the more remote areas where federal lands predominate. There is no shortage of places to drill, though there is a shortage of drilling rigs.

The federal oil reserve is for national security purposes and even when tapped for domestic use can make little difference in supply. Tapping it is mostly symbolic or for emergencies such as when Katrina messed up refineries, pipelines and storage facilities.

Refining petroleum is a low profit business and large oil companies have been selling them off, shutting them down or refusing to maintain them well. If these companies shut them down, it does not affect the price of crude oil, but it does affect the price of gasoline and diesel. That benefits the refiners who are still open, but no one else. A supply shortage, such as in Cal. now, has little effect anywhere else and has minimal effect on crude prices, if any.

It seems that people like to blame presidents of either party for gas prices, but the president has little power for this. Oil, diesel and gasoline are traded in the world and national markets through commodity exchanges. Presidents appoint the regulators, but often sees them doing little or nothing to reduce prices to his frustration. He can't affect regulators elsewhere in the world.

Fear of war does increase crude prices. Saber rattling for war against Iran makes a difference. An actual war with Iran will increase prices for a while (as it did with the invasion of Iraq), probably partly because of fear and fear is the place where speculators are happiest because they can make lots of money on fear. Destruction of oil fields during a war extends the price increase.

Refineries are very expensive to build and few people want one nearby. If there were no pollution regulations, even fewer people would want one nearby. Before the pollution laws were in effect—think back to the 1960's—many areas of the country had really bad air, smog, and dirty water (that was went the river through Cleveland caught fire; the Buffalo R. did too, but that didn't get much press). Pollution was bad in places where the most people live. I remember crossing Brooklyn in those days to go to grad school in Manhattan—the air was various colors, none of them healthy to breathe. A few years later, I used to go through Niagara Falls—the air was yellow (sulphuric acid), red (who knows what that was) and various other colors from the industry there. Cheap electricity brought industry there, but when the rates went up, industry moved and not because of regulation. China does not enforce the weak anti-pollution laws there and air and water in the cities is awful. Even with pollution regulations in the US, we have the cheapest gas prices of any industrialized country (except maybe Brasil).

Gas prices, because of supply and demand, will go up over the years and the only alternative is to use less and make alternative fuels cheaper with support from the government until that industry is well established. We did that with oil for many years and still do. Leases on federal land are very cheap and the industry gets plenty of tax breaks despite their enormous profits. There is still oil to find, but it keeps getting more expensive to drill and someday it will be in short supply and the demand will still increase.

There's no easy way out of this, and the more we delay change the more expensive it gets. The US is good at crisis management, but not good at planning for the future.

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Old 10-14-2012, 12:44 PM   #2689
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GettinAway

No intention to offend, but what changed in the last 4 years? I don't think "corporate profits" are a new idea.. Fewer oil companies, so they can fix prices?? Pretty significant increase in last four years. Speculators? Everyone's favorite villain.
I still think the effects from DC are a significant portion of this run up.. I could be wrong, it sure won't be the first time..
China started major importing along with India. They're drinking from the same wells we are. Notice how diesel went up and excedes gas. China needs lots of diesel.

However, I'd still like a diesel Suburban.
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Old 10-14-2012, 01:18 PM   #2690
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Well said, Gene.
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Old 10-15-2012, 04:15 AM   #2691
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Gene Said, "There's no easy way out of this, and the more we delay change the more expensive it gets. The US is good at crisis management, but not good at planning for the future."
Amen to that.. Really frustrating to watch these guys do nothing..
I hope the pricing stabilizes a bit. I think alternative sources are a long way off.
I certainly hope the next four years aren't as bad as the last four, in relation to gas prices.. $7.00 gas will make an Alaska trip just a bit too expensive..
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Old 10-15-2012, 05:32 AM   #2692
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Gene is right. Fuel is a world wide commodity based on the US dollar aka federal reserve note that has been devalued. Sal.
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Old 10-15-2012, 07:44 AM   #2693
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Brazils ethanol s basically one hundred percent subsidized by the fed govt. jim
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Old 10-15-2012, 08:28 AM   #2694
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Sarasota, Florida, regular ranges $3.59, (cash and gas card) to $3.79 + , diesel is around $4.00. (Prices NOT next to Interstate 75) Prices higher elsewhere in Florida, IF coming south on I-75, stop at exit 2 in Georgia, . . . tend to be 15 to 25 cents lower, Cash always lower
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Old 10-15-2012, 02:00 PM   #2695
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In the UK Diesel is £1.43 per litre!!!
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Old 10-15-2012, 02:00 PM   #2696
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At Jackson it's $4.54 gal for Diesel.
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Old 10-15-2012, 02:32 PM   #2697
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At Jackson it's $4.54 gal for Diesel.

and if you remembered to slide your players card in the pump you saved .10 cents per gallon.
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Old 10-19-2012, 12:13 AM   #2698
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and if you remembered to slide your players card in the pump you saved .10 cents per gallon.
Hi, and the Shell station in town was already $0.10 cheaper without a card. Premium is as low as $4.11 per gallon in Salem, Oregon. [name brand stations, not Arco or Joe's Dairy]
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Old 10-19-2012, 03:46 AM   #2699
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Just got back from Maui where gas was 4.59. Cheaper than California. Here in southern Michigan 3.59.
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Old 10-22-2012, 04:43 PM   #2700
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Just filled up. Gas down to $3.29 for regular in Fort Worth, Texas.
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