Travel Trailer vs. 5th Wheel

[Friday]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

Hope this isn't too far off topic. Found this Web site and fifth-wheel photos while researching mobile broadband equipment and plans. IF I ever win the lottery, this might be an alternative to our Bambi. However, it would seriously limit boondocking opportunities:

New Horizons RV

Note: For info on mobile broadband, see "Communications" in the menu bar.

26,000lbs??? I think you're looking at $400K+ for trailer and truck... maybe more... yikes...

[wahoonc]

I have owned both a 5ver and an Airstream. My Airstream is 37 years old this month...I have yet to see a fifth wheel that old still on the road.

Airstream living isn't for everyone, it requires planning and some serious downsizing. We tow our 1975 with a 1/2t pickup truck. The 5ver required an F350, I saw some last weekend that would require a Class7 truck to tow, that means $$$, plus big trucks are no fun to try and find parking places for if you plan on any sight seeing.

Aaron

[Sodbust]

For us it boiled down to how they are built to start with.. The 5th we got was used and always seemed to leak only when the AC was on.. Found out someone forgot to hook up the AC drain and it leaked water into the roof and walls.. Ended up replacing wall studs and wall base plates.. All 1"x 1 1/2"...

After seeing how the SOB were built,, with sticks and staples,, I made the "investment" into an Airstream.. Simple for me..

Sodbust

[slowmover]

I've pulled them all more miles than I care to mention. For towing and handeling, give me a good quality 5th wheel any day. If you haven't had the opportunity to pull one, you will really be shocked how stable they are compared to an equivalent sized TT.


No, they aren't. This misconception comes about as [is said] 90% of conventional rigs have mal-adjusted hitch rigging (failure to use weight scale values for set up), compounded by cheap hitches with little ability to prevent sway. A VPP hitch (and some custom set-ups) negates the type of hitch between these choices. At that point the enormous disadvantages of a 5'er become apparent. I can run rings around any 5'er with my rig, maneuvers that would put them in the ditch instantly.

If one wants to talk about GN flatbeds, I'm all in favor of bed mounted hitches. But not for TT's . . as the second consideration of "type" is in aerodynamic resistance. Low flat loads are great on a flatbed with a GN hitch, no question.

But tall square boxes allow wind to pile up against them (lack of radiused edges) and this "push" can be severe even with 25-mph winds. Gusts can be worse. Time to get off the road. An aero trailer of the type on these pages allows the winds to roll off of them. Towing in 40-mph constant winds with gusts to 60 is possible (if it is noticed). The difference is in push and pull. A square white box is pushed hard by winds . . the aero TT is "pulled" by the winds having crossed them. A more gentle problem to correct for, and with none of the harshness or abruptness. And of a lower order of magnitude.

Trailer design -- where heaviest components are centered on or near the axles -- is second. The SWB's (conventional or 5'er) may have floorplans that put weight where it isn't wanted (from a safety/performance standpoint).

Next is suspension. A/S trailers feature fully independent suspension, that, like the best road cars, is not upset by tripping hazards (potholes or objects in roadway) in any way comparable to the buggy springs on most SWB's. Coupled to a low center-of-gravity [COG], makes for outstanding handling and braking in comparison. Put one behind a TV with fully independent suspension and see to it that all axles feature disc brakes and one has state-of-the-art towing performance.

The worst-handling & braking TV (pickup) followed by the most top-heavy, wind-resistant trailer type (5'er) is a very long way from being "stable". A cheaply made square white box on leaf springs with ridiculous ground clearance is barely compensated by hitch method. Make no mistake that the square edged, enormous sail area, weight, bad floorplan and high COG put 5'ers at the very bottom of the list for "stability". (A problem masked for most owners by the insensitive steering on pickups, especially 4WD, which also contributes to the idea of 5'er stability.)

An A/S can be pulled by quite a few other vehicles than a pickup, reducing initial and operating expenses (if that matters), or one can have a high-end Euro turbodiesel SUV for the highest performance. Examples of all of these around here with some reading.

--------------------------

For the OP: I am a Vintage Kin owner (one of the out-of-production aerodynamic all-aluminum trailers) and I am looking for a "new" one:

1973 or later (as both black & gray water tanks became mandatory) is the primary consideration for me.

From here it comes down to condition. There are many fine Streamline, Avion, and Silver Streak trailers out there in the dozens versus the thousands of Airstreams. Keep your eyes out for CL listings, and read up around here on these alternatives.

As for length of service these trailer types cannot be beaten.

.

[jgerardi]

What we need is more objective analysis. Airstreams are much cooler!

[Gene]

Since Rednax has a lot experience with all types of trucks and trailers, what he has to say about towing should be considered seriously.

As for Airstreams as a 4 season trailer, they are not unless you want to take serious precautions—heated water hoses, skirting, insulating windows with something like Reflectix. Below 20˚ F, the furnace will have difficulty keeping up to keep the tanks warm enough. You'll use a lot of propane. Traveling to the warmer states you may have to keep the furnace running or drain the water system before the temps get well up into the 20's. In hot states in the summer, the trailer will get really hot and it will take a lot of A/C to get it down to comfortable temps. Move with the weather and seasons.

If you buy a '90's model now in 20 years it will be 30-40 years old and will need constant maintenance (they all do, but age increases the possibility for more expensive things like axles, appliances, etc.). There is no cheap way out of this, but because of depreciation of new ones, going back several years into the '00's may prevent or delay some future problems down the road. But coming up with a big bunch of money at the front end may be difficult and paying it out over years by buying an older one and gradually fixing things is appealing. Any way you go, it is expensive. If you want to sell your house, you avoid the house maintenance, so that may be cheaper. If you can get a lot of equity out of the house, investing it may pay for maintenance on a trailer, but it is difficult now to get sufficient returns on investments.

Some people try full timing and find it doesn't work for them after a few years, so be prepared for the possibility of that. None of the options make for easy decisions. Downsizing is not easy and storing your stuff for a few years instead of selling it might be a good decision if full timing is not for you after some experience with it. We love traveling and our trailer selection works well for us, but we sure do like coming home too. But maintaining a house and a trailer (like a small house with wheels) is a lot of work too.

Gene

[harrysteven]

You guys have given me a lot to think about. I realize I have to look into this more deeply and no longer assume that a 5th Wheel is the way to go. I was only getting one side of the story before I posted here. Thanks! Airstream is now on my “must consider” list.

Rednax: You made some interesting points but I’m not familiar with three of the acronyms you used: VPP, GN, SWB

Gene: Would it be expensive to retrofit an Airstream to use it in the winter in say, Pennsylvania or Massachusetts? Also, with regard to maintenance, my house was bought new more than 20 years ago. In the last few years I’ve had to spend between 2k and 5k in such costs. Do you think an older Airstream would cost more than 2-3 grand a year in maintenance?

Thanks, everyone!

Harry

[Fly at Night]

As far as the AS' lack of storage space - who wants to store a lot of stuff anyways? Isn't this the point of FT living/downsizing?

Someone already mentioned the access challenges with a fifth wheel. Something to consider with a retirement trailer. This was really hammered home after attending the last RV show. Some mountaineering experience would come in handy with most of those Class A motor homes and fifth wheels....and I am years away from retirement age!

[flyfisher]

If you want more unbiased opinions, and perhaps more knowledgeable opinions overall, I suggest posting your questions on the Escapees forum which is largely populated by RV fulltimers.

I think you'll find that fulltime RVers prefer 5th wheels or motorhomes over travel trailers 100 to 1, and for good reason. Actually, for many good reasons.

Airstreams are not the quality trailer that they are made out to be by many Airstream owners. Do a search of this forum and you'll find dozens upon dozens of quality issues that have persisted, many unadressed by Airstream management, for years upon years.

My 2004 Airsteam, purchased new, was the biggest hunk of junk one could possibly imagine, and I'd match my 2008 Newmar Kountry Aire 5th wheel against it, or any Airstream ever on the road, and it would come out on the top in practically every category except perhaps for 2 things - it wouldn't get into some 4x4 backcountry camping spots, and it wouldn't reflect and absorb the hot sun's rays the same way as a polished aulminum one does.

John

[dkottum]

Speaking of unbiased opinions . . .

John (Flyfisher), you haven't owned an Airstream for years, you're a 5th wheel guy.

doug k

[Gene]

Doug, flyfisher is not alone in questioning the quality control and cost cutting at Airstream. We just got things fixed under warranty and continue to upgrade.

Harry, you can spend as much as you want on an Airstream. If you want to upgrade insulation on an Airstream, that means gutting it, taking off the inner skin and putting is better insulation than fiberglass. There are a variety of foam products.

Or you get a 4 season trailer or 5th wheel from a company like Arctic Fox. They have a good reputation for quality.

Gene

[Friday]

I've said it a lot - Airstreams aren't magic... they are part artwork and part sculpture... To compare, Ferrari makes some of the most beautiful, and most expensive cars around. They have some of the highest maintenance requirements of any car as well...

There is definitely a status attached to owning an Airstream... like it or not, you are going to get a lot of looks and a lot of questions everywhere you go.

If you are looking for trouble free... buy a nice tent.

[harrysteven]

Friday: We go tent camping. Tents are not trouble free. Try getting up in the middle of the night to "answer a call of nature." More than once. Lots of trouble!

Gene: We are looking into the Arctic Fox 5th Wheel. I was wondering if I could also consider the Northwood TT. (Northwood makes the Arctic Fox.) One of the reasons I posted here was I figured you guys could give me another point of view about the TT, since you have the premium brand. Only, now I'm considering the Airstream, also.

[RickDavis]

Originally Posted by Midnightmoon

I've pulled them all more miles than I care to mention. For towing and handeling, give me a good quality 5th wheel any day. If you haven't had the opportunity to pull one, you will really be shocked how stable they are compared to an equivalent sized TT.

With that said, stay away from any 5th wheel built on Lippert frames like the low end Keystones or Forest Rivers. There are tons of stories on the web talking about pin box separation. Good names to look for are Mobile Suites, Arctic Fox, Travel Supreme. They are spendy, but well worth the money.

I will agree with everyone here in saying that the Airstreams are just about the best towing TT's you can find. It's just an apple to oranges comparison with a 5th wheel.

I have to agree with most of the above.
I spent ten years and several 100k miles delivering new trailers to dealers, towing with a 3/4 ton truck.

Given a choice between taking a large fifth wheel or similiar length box trailer I would always take the fiver.

That being said, I still prefer the Airstream and a truck with a cap for my extra stuff for my personal use.
All the reasons posted by others such as lower overhead clearance, wind resistance etc are valid.
Pulling these large trailers is work compared to the Airstream.
If you are going to spend most of your time in long term locations the FW would not be so bad. If you are going to put on many thousands of road miles, and like out of the way spots the Airstream would likely be a better choice

[Phoenix]

Good points, all...

If we were older snowbirds who followed the weather, spending winters in Arizona or Florida, and summers near our grandkids in the northern climes, and using primarily Interstate highways to shuffle between these locations; a fifth-wheel with several slideouts and lots of storage would make a great home.

However, we like to boondock and camp in the off-seasons when the crowds are somewhere else. So, our 19-foot Bambi, which will follow about anywhere our 2WD pickup can go, makes more sense for us. Plus, we intend to pass down our Airstream for our kids and grandkids to enjoy after our pickup keys have been taken away from us, and it's time to start booking cruises. And, I don't know of any other RV that will survive that long, especially since we intend to about wear this one out before that day comes!

[zeke07]

As many others have pointed out....depends on your intended use. We just moved from a 5 th wheel to an airstream and couldn't be happier. Stress level wwwaaaayyyyy down......not looking up anymore to see what wires about to snag or wondering if we make it under that low overhang! AS, lower center of gravity and wind resistance. What really did it was on a recent trip up through north western NM in the 5 er with some wind and little ice on the road the wind pushed the trailer then the truck......tail wagging the dog. That was it, manageability won out hands down over space.

Good luck
Bruce

[Fly at Night]

An Airstream looks like a home when unhitched.

A fifth wheel looks like it's missing something when unhitched.

A SOB motorhome look like it is out of its element when parked, i.e. it's begging to hit the road -- and burn another $350 worth of fuel.

BTW, the Fan is not the "biggest piece of junk."

In short, do you want to look and feel like just another RVer....or do you want to grace your retirement years with style and couth?

[superduty5er]

This looks to be a pretty entertaining thread...

Anyhow-I am biased too-but entertaining the idea of a triaxle AS to 'trailer' around with...

There is no replacing my fiver-my rig runs the highway like a bullet-the key is setup-and matching your TV and trailer (any trailer/hauler/fiver)

What I've learned about the AS is that it seams you can have a bit of a mismatched combo and still find good handling...I can tow just about any conventional TT and not know it's behind my truck-the fact that the truck weighs 10K fueled up helps keep the tail from waggin the dog.

If I get in it will be all about the aura.

[phbarnhart]

so I've noticed that some folks have discussed how much faster it is to hitch 5th wheel. While I've never done so, I did have an interesting experience watching a guys at the RV storage lot try and hook up his. Basically we got there after he had and were driving away with the AS all hooked up and he was still trying to get something set up right with his. Now, I am more than willing to accept that he was either not very good or that there was something wrong with his system.

Anyway, get a TV with a backup camera (or add one) and you'll be hooking up quickly. I should also point out that I was hitching up with a Pro Pride.

Oh, and the AS is a four season unit.

Don't forget that we've all (or mostly all) drunk that AS Kool-Aid so factor that in to your weighing of our opinions. ;-)

[dkottum]

phbarnhart, I don't think the Airstream would be considered a four season unit, would it?
We've camped in subzero, but the trailer is barely capable and that was overnight only. No sewer, water, furnace and electric space heater going, and too much condensation.

I believe three season would be accurate.

doug k