To Pack or Not Pack

[hampstead38]

I'm a lifelong hunter so I'll always have a shooting iron or two in the Airstream. My wife has leaned on me about doing some cowboy action shooting... since I have all of the rigging. In fact, part of the design of the Overlander is going to be place where I can stow my firearms unobtrusively. This isn't about circling the wagons and having a shoot-out with the bad guys. Firearms are just part of my recreational lifestyle.

Personally, I would rather avoid trouble to the extent possible. Shooting someone, even in the leg, involves paperwork, bureaucracy and all sorts of questions... it's almost as bad as going to the Department of Motor Vehicles. The older I've gotten, the fewer things I think are really worth pointing a loaded gun at another human being.

[gaylejoe]

There have been some great responces to this thread. I agree with most of them. Having had open heart surgery the physical part of self defense is out for me. I have learned over the years that when something is going to happen there will be little or no warning at all. Nothing is going to help the situation. I also believe that most people have cool heads and especially those trained in law enforcement.

[dlb435]

Originally Posted by gaylejoe

There have been some great responces to this thread. I agree with most of them. Having had open heart surgery the physical part of self defense is out for me. I have learned over the years that when something is going to happen there will be little or no warning at all. Nothing is going to help the situation. I also believe that most people have cool heads and especially those trained in law enforcement.

Sorry, but I disagree. Almost every situation that I have been in that had some element of danger did not pop up with no warning. The key is to be aware of what is going on around you at all times. Pay attention to the details. I mentioned the encounter with a bear. The dogs had been restless for two days before and we heard noises at night. The bear was not a suprise, we just didn't know how big he was going to be!
I've gone into areas that I know had very high crime rates. Knowing what part of a city you're in can be critical. Part of being on the road is to know were you are and what's going on. Read the signs and take proper action. Why stop on the bad side of town when you can drive a few more miles and be safe?
Keep your eyes open. If you pull in someplace with men loitering around with no aparent job, this could be a problem. If someone confronts you, be firm but polite. Most important, leave as soon as you can. If a situation doesn't feal right then it probably isn't. Trust your gut.
Be prepared. Have those pots and pans to bang together in bear country. Know what side of town you're on. Have the gas tank full before you hit a bad stretch. Keep the gun loaded and near by. Scout out an exit before you walk in someplace that looks bad.
When gaylejoe started this thread he stated that the place seemed safe but that he had parked a good distance off and in the dark. Was the RV park located near a bad area? He didn't say. Had there been trouble there before? Again, he didn't say. Was he out alone at night? Yes. Did his companions watch until he was safely away? No.
Actually, he was very lucky. This pair only seemed to be after money. Many times these thugs only use robbery as an excuse to hurt someone. (They can be very sick people.) I've stayed in some really rough places but locked the trailer and slept with the gun close at hand. I didn't want trouble but I was ready if it came knocking.
There is a book called "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin De Becker. It was written by an ex-cop and body gaurd. The book is aimed at women, but I found it useful.

[ESCAPE POD]

Originally Posted by dlb435

Sorry, but I disagree. Almost every situation that I have been in that had some element of danger did not pop up with no warning. The key is to be aware of what is going on around you at all times. Pay attention to the details. I mentioned the encounter with a bear. The dogs had been restless for two days before and we heard noises at night. The bear was not a suprise, we just didn't know how big he was going to be!
I've gone into areas that I know had very high crime rates. Knowing what part of a city you're in can be critical. Part of being on the road is to know were you are and what's going on. Read the signs and take proper action. Why stop on the bad side of town when you can drive a few more miles and be safe?
Keep your eyes open. If you pull in someplace with men loitering around with no aparent job, this could be a problem. If someone confronts you, be firm but polite. Most important, leave as soon as you can. If a situation doesn't feal right then it probably isn't. Trust your gut.
Be prepared. Have those pots and pans to bang together in bear country. Know what side of town you're on. Have the gas tank full before you hit a bad stretch. Keep the gun loaded and near by. Scout out an exit before you walk in someplace that looks bad.
When gaylejoe started this thread he stated that the place seemed safe but that he had parked a good distance off and in the dark. Was the RV park located near a bad area? He didn't say. Had there been trouble there before? Again, he didn't say. Was he out alone at night? Yes. Did his companions watch until he was safely away? No.
Actually, he was very lucky. This pair only seemed to be after money. Many times these thugs only use robbery as an excuse to hurt someone. (They can be very sick people.) I've stayed in some really rough places but locked the trailer and slept with the gun close at hand. I didn't want trouble but I was ready if it came knocking.
There is a book called "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin De Becker. It was written by an ex-cop and body gaurd. The book is aimed at women, but I found it useful.

Wouldn't you have felt safer by moving from a location you felt was threatening, than staying put and sleeping with a gun?

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by ESCAPE POD

Wouldn't you have felt safer by moving from a location you felt was threatening, than staying put and sleeping with a gun?

In the abstract it's always a better idea to avoid risk by heading for the exits. I'll start by saying that I have over the years departed a number of situations with due haste when I started to sense that things weren't quite right

In practice there are often various kinds of barriers. Let's take an example we can all relate to. If you are at a campground on the Friday night of a holiday weekend when, as the evening wears on, it becomes increasingly clear that the people two sites over are not just rowdy but dangerous, your choices are limited. Are you going to hitch up in the dark and leave and hope to find an open pad at the next campground up the road? Drive all the way home? To the nearest Walmart? Are you going to get cooperation on that from any traveling companions you may have with you?

Now, carrying is far from a panacea and is certainly not for everyone. But in some situations, with the proper training, it can provide an improvement in personal safety.

[HOG-I]

Both my wife and I carry and have CCW permits and training. This past month, a young man stopped to take a rest at our State welcoming rest stop. It was just turning dark and he was killed by 3 gang members (later caught and charged with murder). I also ride and never travel without a gun. We are surrounded by crazies.

[holder310]

Originally Posted by airmac

everyone has to decide for themselves. there is no one answer + every situation is different.
the police can only take a report , after the event happens + stop a recurrence.
at the time of most crimes , you are on your own.
problem with guns is ,most people don't have any training.
in your case, if you had a gun + hurt a unarmed kid , you could lose big.
there is no answer.

I am not convinced that he would have been in legal trouble if he had shot the kid. I know we are talking about "what if's" and all.... but the kid had a weapon. I know a bb gun doesn't seem much like a weapon, but you know people rob stores with their fingers under clothing and looks like a real weapon. They get in just as much trouble as if they were really packing. Yes, I think he (and most folks) would feel bad about shooting a kid, but let's face it, you really don't have much time in an instance like this to decide if a gun looks like a bb gun or an uzi.

[68 TWind]

Having been an avid shooter most my live, I decided I needed some real training in defensive shooting after I got my CCW. Much has been said about getting training in the above posts. The reason at first is obvious for the new comer to the world of firearms. But for the person who,"thinks" they would know what to do, professional training will quickly show you that you don't. The eye opener I learned from serious tactical handgun training is that most of us "don't know what we don't know". Training opens your eyes to just how different defensive shooting is from just target shooting. Most important aspect is you learn how to AVOID the situation in the first place. Best money I every spent.

[knunut]

Kimber PepperBlaster followed by Kimber Ultra Covert II . Problem solved.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by holder310

I am not convinced that he would have been in legal trouble if he had shot the kid....

Depends what you mean by legal trouble, and depends on the jurisdiction.

Many departments have an "arrest the gun" policy where in the event of a shooting they will arrest the shooter even in an apparent case of self-defense, leading to bail costs, attorney's fees, loss of the firearm (for "evidence"), and police questioning.

Even absent such a policy the attorney's fees for an open-and-shut case can be considerable and there is still a risk of prison time. Google "Scott Treptow sentence" for an example; Treptow pled guilty to felony charges rather than face a jury trial. Or read through the legions of narratives of "good shoots" real and hypothetical at TheHighRoad.US - Powered by vBulletin and similar web sites.

See also Marc MacYoung's comments regarding the frequency with which self-defense is claimed by assailants.

On the hand some people find that the nightmares are worse than the legal repercussions.

[dlb435]

Jammer, good point. I live in the deep south and we take the right to defend yourself as granted. Not so in many East coast states. Stooting someone in self defence can get very sticky. You might even end up with jail time in some places. Given the choice of dead or in trouble with the law; what would you choose?
ESCAPE POD, it was one of those lesser of two evil choices. I had been on the road for 14 hours and was really done in. The next nice camp ground was over an hour down the road. I wasn't sure I could make the run safely so I decided to stay at the seedy camp ground. I did make an effort to be freindly with the folks there. I felt the risk was small but real. Turns out, I had no trouble at all.