Something is going on: Airstream rollover three

[KellyAndersson]

Originally Posted by Ted S.

... too many people towing think they are safer than they really are.

TED, YES, YES !!! I've seen this a bajillion times in 30+ years but one of the best (read that: worst!) was last summer between Medford OR and Eugene OR on I-5. Downhill northbound on one of the steep grades; traffic was heavy enough (and I was not in a hurry) that I was hanging over in the right lane and paying attention to SA. Some jerkoff with a big (like 35+foot) RV passes me on the downhill. He obviously has no idea how long he is, or thinks he is, especially with the cute little Isuzu he's towing (maybe he forgot about that?) because he very nearly whanged the right side of that Isuzu into the left side of my 4Runner as he merged back from the left lane in front of me to the right as we reached the bottom of the long downhill grade at Rice Hill.

Seriously, I had to like stand on my brakes to avoid getting whacked off the freeway by his towed Isuzu behind his bigass RV. I would for sure have called 911 on him except that he peeled off at the next exit.

[tjdonahoe]

Pulled ou as across North Dakota yesterday, had a side wind,and head wind all the way ,no sway with the Reese duel cam, also the ram is at 9600 and our classic had 7800 on the axle full of water and supplies.....

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by J. Morgan

As now occasional poster I am going to say say something that some will find very offensive. I don't say it to start a fight, but its too true not to say, so I am saying it.

With a PRO Pride or Hensley in proper functioning order, there are no trailer sway induced accidents. These products should be allowed their earned status of the best on the market today.

The Hensley looks amazing. Not sure how they work, they build 'em right near my work. I'm gonna pick one up next week.

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by Countryboy59

The Hensley looks amazing. Not sure how they work, they build 'em right near my work. I'm gonna pick one up next week.

Overkill for a 19' single axle IMO. They weigh a ton. Is your tow vehicle's rating high enough for both the AS tongue weight [loaded] plus the Hensley?

There are threads here devoted to the Hensley and Pro Pride:

https://www.google.com/search?q=hens...&bih=720&dpr=2

. . . so you might find existing complete feedback at one of those threads, or in the list of topics in the Hitch sub-forum:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f464/

Good luck,

Peter

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by J. Morgan

As now occasional poster I am going to say say something that some will find very offensive. I don't say it to start a fight, but its too true not to say, so I am saying it.

With a PRO Pride or Hensley in proper functioning order, there are no trailer sway induced accidents. These products should be allowed their earned status of the best on the market today.

All trailered rig combinations are vulnerable on a downslope. Any type or design. Big truck, or RV. That includes the VPP as the linkages "collapse" inward.

Again, with any trailered vehicle, keeping it centered behind the tow vehicle is a matter of hitch tension. That the trailer continue to travel at the same speed as the tow vehicle. This is pretty much a function of brakes, not TT hitch design.

Diesel exhaust brakes and gas motor transmission programming are NOT substitutes for service brake use. Unless the tow vehicle computer signals the trailer brakes to apply in conjunction. (If they do, I'm unaware of that fact. Can anyone cite factory literature?). My tractor-trailer combination does this, for example.

A VPP can move sideways more easily under these conditions than can a TT with a conventional hitch. Thus trailer brake application separately, or in conjunction with service brakes is mandatory, just as with those conventional hitches.

Once that step is covered, then it's natural sway elimination design will work. On a downslope that's important due to natural or man-made crosswinds due to intermittent hitch tension. In dealing with those it made other designs obsolete, but as with the others close to constant hitch tension is king.

As noted elsewhere, strong winds are a feature of many mountain roads and passes. Better brakes (faster-acting, with greater application force and no loss of performance) are easily as important.

And it's not enough to rely on electronic anti-sway aids. The rear of the trailer can be into another lane before control is re-established. Take a hit, the rig goes over, and its athwart three lanes of traffic.

Seen that several times and always imagined the excitement of hoping others are going to be able to stop.

("But, hey, the speed limit is 75, so let's blow past all the rigs descending at around forty!")

Those are some long damned seconds.

.

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

Overkill for a 19' single axle IMO. They weigh a ton. Is your tow vehicle's rating high enough for both the AS tongue weight [loaded] plus the Hensley?

Peter

Cargo capacity isn't tow capacity. And tow capacity isn't reckoned with this trailer type, much less a truly aero design.

And 20-25% of that TW is leveraged off.

The Cub model suffices.

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by Countryboy59

The Hensley looks amazing. Not sure how they work, they build 'em right near my work. I'm gonna pick one up next week.

Consider going over to London, ON and have Can Am custom fit. Details matter. If they can cut/reweld stinger bar to increase the angle and preload the truck, it'll be easier to dial in. The tradeoff is slight increase of difficulty in re-hitching. Just part of that learning curve.

Remrber that they've done hundreds of installations of this hitch, and set up more than 10,000 rigs of every sort.

It's the truck that needs it, not the 27'.

[Ray Eklund]

Originally Posted by AlinCal

You guys need to let go here.
This is even more tiresome than the hitch and tire threads.

*******

I drove out of the mountains of Wyoming towing our 23 foot Safari behind a 2006 Tundra. The plug, between tailer and truck, had fallen out. I did not notice until refueling and part of the trailer's plug had ground down on one side. I now always use Duct Tape to secure this connection between vehicle and trailer in tow. Braking indicated nothing out of the normal. I was a... NEWBIE at the time and ignorant.

Try pulling on this connection. If it pulls out too easily, just take 12 inches of duct tape to make it a secure fit. Even if you are not sure, it is an easy cure in the event the plug does pull out from any cause.

There are many... MANY... that tow a trailer I would NOT ride with. Good judgment is not necessarily improved with hours or years towing. That also includes being a passenger in their vehicle. I will volunteer to drive to an event with my vehicle.

Tires, hitches, tow vehicles and a person's judgment are factors to consider. IF one or more of these are not right... beware.

Newbies, as I was at one time... have NO CLUE. Ignorance is not a defense. The learning curve is steep, but quickly learned by those who have the innate ability. Not all who tow, or drive, or fly, or bicycle are competent. Even if you are a PhD, a MD or drive a front loader, although the Front Loader operator may have already the innate ability to operate machinery. 'Intelligence or Occupation' does not make one an expert outside their field.

Many examples are on this Thread and many others on the Forum.

Criticizing those on their opinions only discourages possible real important facts. Spending several years doing OSHA inspections in Wyoming's Oil Patch and Lumbering was an eye opener of poor judgment, not faulty equipment!

The Airstream Pack mentality can turn on anyone on this Forum. I have watched fellow members on this Forum in actual towing conditions. Some are excellent... male and female alike. Some members need to acquire a bit more restraint in their judgment, at times, during unusual conditions of Boondocking.

If anyone does enough 'dumb judgment' calls, poor matches of tow vehicle to trailer, hitch adjustment... it becomes a percentage that something over time will happen if you persist. If you think the 'experts' are all knowing... think again. I rely on ME. I will listen to YOUR opinion and consider the information.

But... each of us are unique in our backgrounds. I am more of pushing the limits and backing off to a comfortable rhythm of towing our trailers. If someone criticizes your towing ability... take notice. There could be something to it. But to attack them personally for an opinion is uncalled for.

[J. Morgan]

Originally Posted by Ray Eklund

*******

I drove out of the mountains of Wyoming towing our 23 foot Safari behind a 2006 Tundra. The plug, between tailer and truck, had fallen out. I did not notice until refueling and part of the trailer's plug had ground down on one side. I now always use Duct Tape to secure this connection between vehicle and trailer in tow. Braking indicated nothing out of the normal. I was a... NEWBIE at the time and ignorant.

Try pulling on this connection. If it pulls out too easily, just take 12 inches of duct tape to make it a secure fit. Even if you are not sure, it is an easy cure in the event the plug does pull out from any cause.

There are many... MANY... that tow a trailer I would NOT ride with. Good judgment is not necessarily improved with hours or years towing. That also includes being a passenger in their vehicle. I will volunteer to drive to an event with my vehicle.

Tires, hitches, tow vehicles and a person's judgment are factors to consider. IF one or more of these are not right... beware.

Newbies, as I was at one time... have NO CLUE. Ignorance is not a defense. The learning curve is steep, but quickly learned by those who have the innate ability. Not all who tow, or drive, or fly, or bicycle are competent. Even if you are a PhD, a MD or drive a front loader, although the Front Loader operator may have already the innate ability to operate machinery. 'Intelligence or Occupation' does not make one an expert outside their field.

Many examples are on this Thread and many others on the Forum.

Criticizing those on their opinions only discourages possible real important facts. Spending several years doing OSHA inspections in Wyoming's Oil Patch and Lumbering was an eye opener of poor judgment, not faulty equipment!

The Airstream Pack mentality can turn on anyone on this Forum. I have watched fellow members on this Forum in actual towing conditions. Some are excellent... male and female alike. Some members need to acquire a bit more restraint in their judgment, at times, during unusual conditions of Boondocking.

If anyone does enough 'dumb judgment' calls, poor matches of tow vehicle to trailer, hitch adjustment... it becomes a percentage that something over time will happen if you persist. If you think the 'experts' are all knowing... think again. I rely on ME. I will listen to YOUR opinion and consider the information.

But... each of us are unique in our backgrounds. I am more of pushing the limits and backing off to a comfortable rhythm of towing our trailers. If someone criticizes your towing ability... take notice. There could be something to it. But to attack them personally for an opinion is uncalled for.

My take is that new towers generally have respect/fear for towing a trailer at first, and then at some point confidence overtakes some of them and they might get themselves in trouble. Furthermore, fact to the matter is that there are some people out there who can't or drive their cars well or safely who decide to "go campin".

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

Overkill for a 19' single axle IMO. They weigh a ton. Is your tow vehicle's rating high enough for both the AS tongue weight [loaded] plus the Hensley?

There are threads here devoted to the Hensley and Pro Pride:

https://www.google.com/search?q=hens...&bih=720&dpr=2

. . . so you might find existing complete feedback at one of those threads, or in the list of topics in the Hitch sub-forum:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f464/

Good luck,

Peter

Not for my 19'...it's for my new 27'!

[OTRA15]

Thanks, I just saw that on your other thread [where the Hensley discussion is more on-topic also FWIW].

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f464...ck-172164.html

For a new 27' I would probably go with a PPM hitch of some kind.

Have a good Labor Day weekend.

Peter

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by J. Morgan

As now occasional poster I am going to say say something that some will find very offensive. I don't say it to start a fight, but its too true not to say, so I am saying it.

With a PRO Pride or Hensley in proper functioning order, there are no trailer sway induced accidents. These products should be allowed their earned status of the best on the market today.

A newbie reading your post will be scared away from all other alternatives.
Your unabashed plug for the most expensive hitches in the market obviously needing constant promoting without noting many less expensive alternatives just as safe is irresponsible.

[J. Morgan]

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

A newbie reading your post will be scared away from all other alternatives.

Your unabashed plug for the most expensive hitches in the market obviously needing constant promoting without noting many less expensive alternatives just as safe is irresponsible.

And still, the best is the best and the safest is the safest.

[james.mileur]

Originally Posted by slowmover

All trailered rig combinations are vulnerable on a downslope. Any type or design. Big truck, or RV. That includes the VPP as the linkages "collapse" inward.

A VPP can move sideways more easily under these conditions than can a TT with a conventional hitch. Thus trailer brake application separately, or in conjunction with service brakes is mandatory, just as with those conventional hitches.

Once that step is covered, then it's natural sway elimination design will work. On a downslope that's important due to natural or man-made crosswinds due to intermittent hitch tension. In dealing with those it made other designs obsolete, but as with the others close to constant hitch tension is king.

Ahoy Streammate, speak to me about PPP linkages collapsing inward on the downslope. Since reading these posts lately, I've already decided to train my brain, and right hand, to finger the brake controller while passing or downhill, even though I've never experienced any sway, yet. Is the Hensley different than PPP for this collapsing inward link concept? I'm trying to visualize collapsing linkages, both inward, to the side, ?? I thought the stinger controlled the head and linkages locked the yoke into line.

[J. Morgan]

Originally Posted by james.mileur

Ahoy Streammate, speak to me about PPP linkages collapsing inward on the downslope. Since reading these posts lately, I've already decided to train my brain, and right hand, to finger the brake controller while passing or downhill, even though I've never experienced any sway, yet. Is the Hensley different than PPP for this collapsing inward link concept? I'm trying to visualize collapsing linkages, both inward, to the side, ?? I thought the stinger controlled the head and linkages locked the yoke into line.

Never happens to me. Ever.

[ITSNO60]

Originally Posted by james.mileur

Ahoy Streammate, speak to me about PPP linkages collapsing inward on the downslope. Since reading these posts lately, I've already decided to train my brain, and right hand, to finger the brake controller while passing or downhill, even though I've never experienced any sway, yet. Is the Hensley different than PPP for this collapsing inward link concept? I'm trying to visualize collapsing linkages, both inward, to the side, ?? I thought the stinger controlled the head and linkages locked the yoke into line.

I think what he is referring to is the fact that when on level ground or uphill the trailer is being pulled by the TV in such that all the components that have slop are stretched tight, the TV is actually pulling the trailer. Going downhill however the trailer is no longer being pulled, and the components with slop are no longer stretched tight, they are compressed and the trailer is now pushing the TV instead of being pulled by it. I am by a long shot no expert but that's my take on what he said.

[dkottum]

Originally Posted by james.mileur

Ahoy Streammate, speak to me about PPP linkages collapsing inward on the downslope. Since reading these posts lately, I've already decided to train my brain, and right hand, to finger the brake controller while passing or downhill, even though I've never experienced any sway, yet. Is the Hensley different than PPP for this collapsing inward link concept? I'm trying to visualize collapsing linkages, both inward, to the side, ?? I thought the stinger controlled the head and linkages locked the yoke into line.

Andrew Thomson of Can-Am sets up Hensley/ProPride, as well as other w.d. hitches, with a strong downward tilt of the w.d. bars. In some cases they put the Hensley/ProPride stinger in a press and bend it downward to get enough tilt. We added the maximum washers under the tilt rivet of our ProPride stinger.

This has advantages in keeping the trailer from moving out of alignment with conventional w.d. hitches, and helps stabilize the tow vehicle in avoidance maneuvers at highway speeds.

For us Hensley/ProPride users it also helps to keep the linkage from moving to the side and collapsing forward on the downslope or when braking. Extreme collapse of the linkage is known as the "Hensley bump". By tilting the hitch head/w.d. bars downward toward the rear (maximum washers under the tilt rivet), we've never experienced it.

[J. Morgan]

Originally Posted by ITSNO60

I think what he is referring to is the fact that when on level ground or uphill the trailer is being pulled by the TV in such that all the components that have slop are stretched tight, the TV is actually pulling the trailer. Going downhill however the trailer is no longer being pulled, and the components with slop are no longer stretched tight, they are compressed and the trailer is now pushing the TV instead of being pulled by it. I am by a long shot no expert but that's my take on what he said.

I keep my trailer brakes adjusted, but never has happened to me. I think that even if it did, it would be essentially a non event. The trailer can't sway in that kind of lock either.

[dkottum]

Originally Posted by J. Morgan

I keep my trailer brakes adjusted, but never has happened to me. I think that even if it did, it would be essentially a non event. The trailer can't sway in that kind of lock either.

I believe the pivot point moves aft (somewhat) when the hitch head linage is not in alignment with the tow vehicle, as in turns or possibly in braking or the downslope. But the trailer yaw leverage to the steering axle is still greatly reduced and unlikely to have much if any effect.

Best to adjust the brake controller properly, and use hitch head/w.d. bar downward tilt to prevent any meaningful linkage collapse from happening.

[Rich Jenkins]

Ok well now I need to go look at my ProPride to see whether it was set up 'down'.

Since this is hard to visualize, have any of y'all got a picture showing this downward slope of the WD bars?

I don't really have any sway, towing a 30' FC rear queen with a Ram 2500 CTD with a PP. We've done about 30k miles since November 15. This is across the US and Canada, at up to 10% grade in Death Valley. My hitch was set up at Colonial.