Shenanigans on Recreation.gov

[Mollysdad]

Originally Posted by WhereStream

What is this "Wandering Labs?"

Wandering Labs is a web site that will keep checking for campsites you imput. There is no charge, but they appreciate a donation. I've done it no charge and donation both and had success on the no charge, so don't feel obligated.
https://reserve.wanderinglabs.com
I use them as "it can't hurt". If they're selling my data, I can't tell. I actually got a notice for Topsail Hill SP on Dec 28 which I've been trying for a while. Act fast.

[lsbrodsky]

You know...this is just another nail in the coffin of why camping has lost its luster.

Larry

[aaryno]

“Camping” at popular places like Yosemite, Yellowstone, Glacier is a lot different than pulling off into a dispersed site off a forest road in a grove of aspens. Recreation.gov is a clunky approach to trying to make it fair access to popular places. If access were commercialized, they would Price it high enough to Drop demand to where it wouldn’t be practically impossible to get a reservation. But price would be limiting to most. Right now it takes prioritization, perseverance and luck. Luckily it doesn’t take technical knowledge of how websites work since third party services will do that part for us.

Note that by far the majority of campgrounds on Recreation.gov are not suffering from too much demand.

[SuperTrouper]

Originally Posted by KelloggKid

And that boys and girls is precisely how someone manages to book your favorite site before the window opens.......

And if a really good site is still available when the booking window opens they usually only last a few minutes. If you jump the gun, by the time you backtrack through the process and try again it is often too late.

Last year, in an effort to get our prized site, we were on-line at window opening with a desktop computer, a laptop and two iPads. As soon as one machine was told it was too early we went to the second one, etc. Got the prize......

One addition to the book a week and cancel all but the weekend a bit later is the fact that most reservations systems let you change your reservations twice for a small fee. If you know what spot you gotta have and have a war chest of $$$, you can book the max days 2X before your planned camping time, change the dates twice and cancel any days you don’t want for a refund. Complicated and your investment does not appreciate in value for 6 months but it explains how sites can be swept out from under you as you can change the booking well before the window opens. - Brad

[Mollysdad]

Originally Posted by aaryno

If access were commercialized, they would Price it high enough to Drop demand to where it wouldn’t be practically impossible to get a reservation.
Note that by far the majority of campgrounds on Recreation.gov are not suffering from too much demand.

The problem is that "state" recreation areas should be accessible to all citizens. Don't become Bluewater Key campground in Key West were all the sites have $Million motorhomes. (top sites require a 7 day minimum and are $237/night)+Tax closing in on $2K a week!
Popular Topsail Hill SP charges $43.
That's plenty for a state park.
An hour away, Falling Waters SP has 50 amp sites and their fee is $18, a bargain.

[Mollysdad]

Originally Posted by abqdor

Some of these posts suggest 11 months and is it Noon EST or 10:00AM EST for reservations.

It is 11 months, but at 8:00 am.
I don't think they count days, so February being shorter doesn't change the 11 months.

[ElDub]

The people that have it before you are extending a day before you can get it. Either they had extra days available and extended, or they changed their arrival day to the day you wanted.... But they could do that because they already controlled the site. There is a limit on changing your reservation. I think it's twice, and there is a small fee.

[suncoasteng]

Originally Posted by Ginophiles

Don't want to sound like a conspiracy theorist, buuuut, I always wonder if there is a third party market out there for site reservations.

Can a NP or various State park reservations be Scalped? Or should I say, "can camp site reservations be obtained from a third party reservation agent who takes the hassle out of making the reservations yourself and provides you with a premium experience, for a small fee"?

Yes there are third party websites that find you sites in State & National Parks for a fee, and the fee is always higher than the cancellation fee at the park you want to stay at. They "scour the reservations systems to find you a campsite".
One wonders if the third party guy sits in the cubicle next to the guy holding the reservation who suddenly decides to cancel the original reservation at 3am??

[SeaLevel]

Originally Posted by Mollysdad

It is 11 months, but at 8:00 am.
I don't think they count days, so February being shorter doesn't change the 11 months.

State Parks in Florida are 11 months, as are some others State Parks, but National Park campgrounds are usually 6 months, unless listed otherwise. For example, Schoodic Woods in Acadia now states up to 2 months in advance - reservation only (no first come first served). Cades Cove in Great Smoky Mountains is 6 months.

[Mollysdad]

Originally Posted by SeaLevel

State Parks in Florida are 11 months, as are some others State Parks, but National Park campgrounds are usually 6 months, unless listed otherwise. For example, Schoodic Woods in Acadia now states up to 2 months in advance - reservation only (no first come first served). Cades Cove in Great Smoky Mountains is 6 months.

Good to know, but does Reserve America also do National Park reservations? I looked at Smokey Mountains and only got private campgrounds.

[FC Mike]

Hi Runamuk13, Like you We've been trying to get into one of half dozen of our favorite sites at Kalaloch. We have gone to Kalaloch every year for the past 8-years and have always been able to make reservations (3-times in the much coveted D24). This year I haven't been able to grab one even though I'm at the ready with a desktop and laptop watching the second hand countdown to 0700. Looks like F6 comes up tomorrow. Let's see what happens.

[mikextr]

Great thread! Thanks everyone. I have learned so much. Working the online booking ecosystem is a lot more sophisticated than paying a local to get a first come, no reservation site for you.

[Dave-n-Janet]

Reserveamerica.com does many state parks. Some states use their own systems which I find much more difficult to navigate and find available inventory.

Recreation.gov does Federal campgrounds which does include COE and many TVA campgrounds (I believe). Some Federal (includes Nation Forest, National Seashores and National Parks) have private concessionaires, so then you would have to use that concessionaires reservation system. Generally recreation.gov will include info if a private concessionaire.

Recreation.gov is generally 6 month window.
Reserveamerica.com is generally 11 month window.

As for booking ahead, I believe both sites don't let you change your reservation for 15 or 16 days after booking. This prevents the sort of leap frogging 'ownership' of a site which it sounded like a previous poster implied. However, they both generally allow you to book two weeks including the first nite, which may be the first nite of the current booking window. This is why it is important to look at the availability calendar and see what sites will be coming available over the period you are interested in.

[CKent]

Preference registration? Disabled veterans, etc.

[sctinman44]

[QUOTE=Runamuk13;2462896]Is anyone else noticing some shenanigans happening on Recreation.gov?

How does this happen ?

I have tried for the past 3 years in Aug. to get a week at a COE in south Florida near Ft.Myers on the river with the same results and frustrations. This has brought new info and maybe I'll try again this Aug. I'm not sure if I really comprehend all of this but I'll try and thanks to all who have put this out. Ken

[DaveG]

Originally Posted by WhereStream

What is this "Wandering Labs?"

https://reserve.wanderinglabs.com

[Piggy Bank]

Let's all be careful what you wish for.

As it is now, the websites are public, and any user has an equal chance to book these affordable and taxpayer supported areas.

As long as the person reserving the site uses it (vs being a no-show and not cancelling), I support the current system.

We don't want camping to turn into skiing where it is so expensive it is becoming out of reach of affordability.

I would support a policy of a triple-charge for users who reserve and then don't show and don't cancel. That is stealing the opportunity for the site to be used by someone else. I think it is ethically wrong to reserve and not show up. Yes you paid for it, but the cost of public camping is kept artificially low as it is born by everyone thru taxes. If it were not, the prices would be the same or higher than private RV parks.

Just because you don't care about wasting $25 doesn't give you the right to reserve it, not use it, and not cancel so it can be used by someone else.

[Piggy Bank]

Originally Posted by CKent

Preference registration? Disabled veterans, etc.

Most campgrounds do have ADA sites and those are held open until all other sites have been reserved.

[OhLook_SHINY]

Originally Posted by SeaLevel

State Parks in Florida are 11 months, as are some others State Parks, but National Park campgrounds are usually 6 months, unless listed otherwise. For example, Schoodic Woods in Acadia now states up to 2 months in advance - reservation only (no first come first served). Cades Cove in Great Smoky Mountains is 6 months.

I was reading along, kind of fascinated ... and then THIS (quote) hit me. I don't know what exactly my info means, but I'll contribute it.

First, I got to a COE campground after hours (Sep 2019) and was trying to use the "honor system" to register for a vacant site for the night, but EVERY site had a "reserved" sign. I finally stopped at the camp host (volunteer) RV and they escorted me to a site, which turned out to be lovely. Later I learned that people (locals?) had been abusing the honor system registration setup, squatting on a site for the night, disappearing before business hours in the morning. I had/have conflicting thoughts about that, but .... the man at the check-in/out gate chatted me up as I was leaving, and he mentioned Cade's Cove as a favorite park between there and Louisiana. So I kept that in mind, not knowing if I'd be able to fit it into my itinerary.

As it happened, I had some car trouble in Floyd, VA (lovely people there!) and the detour had me arriving at GSMNP early one morning. As I approached the park, there were "park full" or "no vacancy" signs along the highway. But I thought I might as well try. I'd bought the Seniors Pass (America the Beautiful?) so I'd have free entry for the day, if nothing else. But I kept thinking, SURELY somebody will vacate a site a day or two before they'd planned to, and surely the park won't send somebody out to change the signs on the highway, only to change them back again an hour later. When I got to Cade's Cove, I went into the reservation desk and was told there were 8-10 spots coming vacant that morning (that they were already aware of) that didn't have reservations for the next 2 days. They let me drive around and pick the one I wanted, and I just kind of hovered until the folks packed up and left.

Up until I read SeaLevel's post, I had no idea that reservations there were taken 6 mo in advance!

Soooooo..... I'm not sure what I'm asking/suggesting .... I guess I'm wondering whether it would be possible for folks to have a Plan A and a Plan B, where one of those plans involves driving to the park to see if there's a vacancy?

[janicemd]

I've had good luck with Wandering Labs up until recently. Sites are being booked within one minute of being found by Wandering Labs, so fast that I have to believe something automated is going on. Yes, I know seconds count and we've been successful with being all logged on with our finger on the button at 8:00:00 - but this is different. You get a text, click through and even if I stay logged in at reserveamerica, I still have to do the "I'm not a robot". I can't do it in less than one minute.

I share everyone's frustration, I'd rather be camping than playing games trying to get a reservation. I'm not sure I understand how the OP's site was open the night before and booked before the booking window. Unless the date before his was open and someone booked it that way.

Anyway...I guess will start looking into dispersed camping and other alternatives. Wherever we are, it's all good.