Our first Supercharger stop worked out in our favor

[Jerrylax]

We have about 500 mile travel distance with our Duramax and usually go about 300 and camp…while unhooked we explore and refuel then take off again. Try not to refuel when pulling our classic 30. When EV can do this perhaps we will consider it. I recall a time back in the 19th century when people preferred electric over gas etc., quiet smooth and so forth..who wouldn’t? But for me it must be practicable.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by Mollysdad

Can an EV be charged from a generator? Seems they need more Oomph.

For those who have EV's, how do you pay at the charging station? Tesla card? Apple Pay? Prepaid volt card?

Sure, but is is very inefficient

Nearly all charging is through an app which you have registered your credit card on. There are lots of different apps; Tesla is most common for us.

You asked this previously

https://www.airforums.com/forums/f37...ml#post2578038

[WadeF]

Originally Posted by jcl

Several states have enacted right to charge legislation requiring property owners and managers to install vehicle charging on request. These are aimed at residential properties such as condos, but some states are including commercial properties and rentals. It will be interesting to see if these laws get extended to places such as campgrounds.

The laws don’t require that charging be free, but they do block the passage of regulations that prohibit vehicle charging.

We are so fortunate to have a government willing to make all these decisions for us. I can't wait to see what they have in store for us next

[jcl]

Originally Posted by WadeF

We are so fortunate to have a government willing to make all these decisions for us. I can't wait to see what they have in store for us next

Seems very reasonable. Not much different than the landlord or strata owner being required to supply other utility services (water, sewer, power) to the renter's or owner's unit. The property manager doesn't have to pay for the installation of the power connection or the cost of the power used, but they can't just ignore requests for connections to the public utility grid because they don't like the idea of battery electric vehicles.

[thad1947]

They have never had to install gas pumps.

[WadeF]

Originally Posted by jcl

Seems very reasonable. Not much different than the landlord or strata owner being required to supply other utility services (water, sewer, power) to the renter's or owner's unit. The property manager doesn't have to pay for the installation of the power connection or the cost of the power used, but they can't just ignore requests for connections to the public utility grid because they don't like the idea of battery electric vehicles.

I totally agree, it seems reasonable, I think it's great the government is stepping in and not waiting for the free market to dictate our needs and/or wants. Really the more of these decisions the government makes for us the better off every single person will be. Some might look at this as a small erosion of property owners freedoms but since this is reasonable the government absolutely should have the power to dictate what that small portion of land is for, and since the business/property owner doesn't have to pay for it it does seem reasonable. Who pays for it though??

[jcl]

Originally Posted by WadeF

I totally agree, it seems reasonable, I think it's great the government is stepping in and not waiting for the free market to dictate our needs and/or wants. Really the more of these decisions the government makes for us the better off every single person will be. Some might look at this as a small erosion of property owners freedoms but since this is reasonable the government absolutely should have the power to dictate what that small portion of land is for, and since the business/property owner doesn't have to pay for it it does seem reasonable. Who pays for it though??

The user. Are you OK with a user pay approach? Or is that an attack on your freedom?

[richard5933]

Originally Posted by jcl

The user. Are you OK with a user pay approach? Or is that an attack on your freedom?

I think you're totally missing the point here...

If I own a business, it's up to me to decide what services and products I offer to customers. It's up to me to decide what to do with my property. If I want to spend money to install charging stations to attract BEVs, then that's a choice I make and I'll be happy to spend money on it because I think it will further my business plans.

But, if my business is intended to serve some other market, let's say I have a company making parts for diesel powered pickups, I might not want to invest a single penny in charging stations. According to your thinking, I'd be required to spend money on charging stations that none of my intended customers would use.

Whether or not selling parts for diesel pickups is a good business model or not isn't the point, so don't go down that road. The fact is that not every business owner feels installing charging stations is in their best business interest. Why should the government get to tell a business owner what products or services to offer and to invest in?

Remember, not all mandates work out so well. Anyone who went to public school in the US during the 70s will remember the mandate to switch the country to the metric system. It wasn't sold to the public well, it didn't get a critical mass of support, and it was eventually done away with.

[LLninja]

Interesting how this thread deviated from charging a Tesla towing an airstream at a Supercharger to government mandating charging stations as businesses. Anyway, kudos to the OP for being on the bleeding edge. I’ve got my eye on the Silverado EV with 400 miles of EV range, though I will wait until the second model year so they can work the gremlins out of the first model year - plus sit on the sidelines until the verdict on Ultium is out. As a Chevy Volt owner in 2013, the glacial pace of new EV product introduction is shocking to me. But finally, proper tow vehicles like Rivian, F150 Lighning, Silverado EV, and Hummer EV are coming. But where’s the Cybertruck? It’s been years since the reveal… yet no firm production date yet….makes me wonder if there’s some engineering problem with the exoskeleton design vs. crash testing vs. battery range.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by richard5933

I think you're totally missing the point here...

If I own a business, it's up to me to decide what services and products I offer to customers. It's up to me to decide what to do with my property. If I want to spend money to install charging stations to attract BEVs, then that's a choice I make and I'll be happy to spend money on it because I think it will further my business plans.

But, if my business is intended to serve some other market, let's say I have a company making parts for diesel powered pickups, I might not want to invest a single penny in charging stations. According to your thinking, I'd be required to spend money on charging stations that none of my intended customers would use.

Whether or not selling parts for diesel pickups is a good business model or not isn't the point, so don't go down that road. The fact is that not every business owner feels installing charging stations is in their best business interest. Why should the government get to tell a business owner what products or services to offer and to invest in?

Remember, not all mandates work out so well. Anyone who went to public school in the US during the 70s will remember the mandate to switch the country to the metric system. It wasn't sold to the public well, it didn't get a critical mass of support, and it was eventually done away with.

I think you are missing the point here.

The business in this example is a property manager. The tenants or strata owners want to have their existing electrical power connection run to their parking stall. It already goes to their residence or business. The power company wants to sell the power. But some intermediary thinks it is ok to block that utility connection. The business isn’t required to pay for it, so that is a diversion.

Right to charge legislation isn’t about telling people what to do. It is about dealing with people who think they can tell other people what to do, in this case people who want to charge their vehicles in space that they own, lease, or rent.

[richard5933]

Originally Posted by jcl

I think you are missing the point here.

The business in this example is a property manager. The tenants or strata owners want to have their existing electrical power connection run to their parking stall. It already goes to their residence or business. The power company wants to sell the power. But some intermediary thinks it is ok to block that utility connection. The business isn’t required to pay for it, so that is a diversion.

Right to charge legislation isn’t about telling people what to do. It is about dealing with people who think they can tell other people what to do, in this case people who want to charge their vehicles in space that they own, lease, or rent.

No - I think the same principle applies to apartment buildings and condo properties just like any other properties.

If the condo board chooses to invest in the installation of charging stations on common property, then all is good and they'll get installed. But if the board takes a vote and decides that it isn't something they agree with, or that it's not something the property's infrastructure can handle, then why should they be forced to spend the association's funds to do it?

Apartment building owners to me would be the same. Every apartment owner has to decide which services to offer to his/her customers (tenants). Some will include many extras and perks, others will offer a barebones apartment.

The only time I'd agree with a mandate would be for condos where people have private parking in a connected garage. Since that would be inside their individual property, then if they wish to have a charging station installed they should be allowed to without restrictions from the condo board, unless of course the power infrastructure of the building can't handle the added load the charging stations would create.

There are many apartment buildings and condos which were built decades ago, many of them still working with electrical system providing minimal feeds to each unit. If your unit is fed by a 60-amp or 100-amp panel, it will likely be difficult to add anything resembling a high-speed charger. Even a low-speed charger might not seem like that much of an added load, but if every unit were to install one it might create a load on the building which the incoming power feed cannot handle.

[moosetags]

Like it or not, EV's are coming, and are just getting to the point that they can tow an Airstream. Before this year is out, we should have our new Rivian pick-up truck. We have been studying the EV possibilities for several years now. We feel that a Rivian can work for our style of Airstreaming. We are very much looking forward to trying this out with Lucy.


Brian

[richard5933]

Originally Posted by moosetags

Like it or not, EV's are coming, and are just getting to the point that they can tow an Airstream. Before this year is out, we should have our new Rivian pick-up truck. We have been studying the EV possibilities for several years now. We feel that a Rivian can work for our style of Airstreaming. We are very much looking forward to trying this out with Lucy.


Brian

I hope it works for you. If enough early adopters sign on it will shorten the learning curve for sure, and hopefully encourage the infrastructure to be built out to the point EVs are ready for a more mass market.

[jcl]

I don’t think the challenge is the learning curve as much as it is the adoption curve.

This can be a useful way of seeing technology adoption rates.

For those on the left side of the curve, it can be more comfortable than for those on the far right side of the curve, who sometimes see everyone apart from themselves as early adopters.

When I see comments disparaging EVs posted multiple times, that isn’t about learning to me. It may be about someone on the right side of the curve who wants to delay the point when they switch, for whatever reason.

We are moving towards the early majority phase, more quickly in some locations than others, and not yet for all applications, such as towing heavier trailers.

[richard5933]

I wasn't talking about the learning curve for people driving EVs. I was talking about the learning curve of building out the necessary infrastructure. Everything from how many charging stations, in what locations, in what layout, etc.

No matter how good the EVs are, no matter how much better they are from an environmental point of view, and no matter how many mandates exist...if people don't feel that there is a viable infrastructure they won't gain acceptance.

Same reason I held off buying a 5G phone until this year - there simply was no point since there wasn't an adequate infrastructure where I planned to use the phone.

[WadeF]

Originally Posted by richard5933

No - I think the same principle applies to apartment buildings and condo properties just like any other properties.

If the condo board chooses to invest in the installation of charging stations on common property, then all is good and they'll get installed. But if the board takes a vote and decides that it isn't something they agree with, or that it's not something the property's infrastructure can handle, then why should they be forced to spend the association's funds to do it?

Apartment building owners to me would be the same. Every apartment owner has to decide which services to offer to his/her customers (tenants). Some will include many extras and perks, others will offer a barebones apartment.

The only time I'd agree with a mandate would be for condos where people have private parking in a connected garage. Since that would be inside their individual property, then if they wish to have a charging station installed they should be allowed to without restrictions from the condo board, unless of course the power infrastructure of the building can't handle the added load the charging stations would create.

There are many apartment buildings and condos which were built decades ago, many of them still working with electrical system providing minimal feeds to each unit. If your unit is fed by a 60-amp or 100-amp panel, it will likely be difficult to add anything resembling a high-speed charger. Even a low-speed charger might not seem like that much of an added load, but if every unit were to install one it might create a load on the building which the incoming power feed cannot handle.

This is an excellent point, if I am a developer building apartment buildings and EV charging stations help me be competative or net me a higher profit then guess what capitalism will win and Ill add the charging stations. If that service doesn't net me anything why would I have it on my property, even if the government pays for it? It is essentially a blanket easement on MY private property, not the governments.

AND if the government is paying to install this infrastructure that eliminates an entrepreneurs ability to be competative in the EV charging market.

This is a slippery slope.

By the way I have no problems with EVs or EV owners, I will likely buy a Ford Lightning in the coming years.

[moosetags]

Even though Lucy will go electric later this year, we are not going to sell or trade our 2020 Duramax quite yet. We are going to see how it goes and to what point the road charging infrastructure expands. These are truly exciting times for car guys.

Brian

[jcl]

Originally Posted by WadeF

This is an excellent point, if I am a developer building apartment buildings and EV charging stations help me be competitive or net me a higher profit then guess what capitalism will win and Ill add the charging stations. If that service doesn't net me anything why would I have it on my property, even if the government pays for it? It is essentially a blanket easement on MY private property, not the governments.

AND if the government is paying to install this infrastructure that eliminates an entrepreneurs ability to be competitive in the EV charging market.

This is a slippery slope.

If you are building new apartment buildings, it isn't so much an issue of any applicable right to charge legislation, it is an issue of whatever local building code you must meet. Imagine how much additional profit you could make if you ignored other aspects of the building code.

But if you are covered by the right to charge legislation, and you build a new apartment building without charging infrastructure, in a quest for higher profits, you will get to find out how much more it costs to install it post construction.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by moosetags

Even though Lucy will go electric later this year, we are not going to sell or trade our 2020 Duramax quite yet. We are going to see how it goes and to what point the road charging infrastructure expands. These are truly exciting times for car guys.


Brian

Sounds like a solid plan. Looking forward to hearing how the Rivian works for you. Did you need to change your order, or did you go with what you had originally ordered?

Agree that these are exciting times for car enthusiasts.

[moosetags]

Originally Posted by jcl

Sounds like a solid plan. Looking forward to hearing how the Rivian works for you. Did you need to change your order, or did you go with what you had originally ordered?

Agree that these are exciting times for car enthusiasts.

I had stayed with my original order. I had a chance to change to get an earlier delivery date, but decided not to. I ordered the Explore Package. This has pushed my delivery date into early 2023. I guess that they don't want to make any of the less expensive models until later on.

I have found this a little frustrating as I have one of the earliest pre-order dates (11/28/2018), and people who ordered two and even three years after me are getting their Rivians in the next month or two. That's what I get for picking the wrong model.

Brian