Neighbors hot over HP noise

[Ag&Au]

Originally Posted by J. Morgan

If I recall correctly, the owners manual for my Duramax recommends warming up while driving chill for a few miles.

That is the advice most often given for modern cars.

I copied this from MSN autos, because it was handy.

Myth: Let your engine warm up for several minutes before driving.
Reality: That might have been good advice for yesteryear's cars but is less so today. Modern engines warm up more quickly when they're driven. And the sooner they warm up, the sooner they reach maximum efficiency and deliver the best fuel economy and performance. But don't rev the engine high over the first few miles while it's warming up.

Seems like common sense to me

Not mentioned so far is the pollution caused when a vehicle is idling. That is especially obnoxious in the tight quarters of a campground.

Ken

[J. Morgan]

I never was one to warm up my vehicles before driving, I for sure don't think I would warm up a diesel in a campground early in the morning. But that is just me, and beside this, I am spending my first night in a campground ever right now. Even more, my AS is the only thing on the lot....

[Gene]

We've been discussing issues that have been raised by this post which was quoted by Slowmover:

"Because it takes quite a while for our truck to warm up to the point where it's usable and will shift out of first gear.

"Until a week or so ago, I thought this was completely normal for our truck, but it turns out it's not - apparently there are a couple issues that should be resolved today. Hopefully I won't have to do this any more. But we'll still probably warm it up at least a few minutes on those cold mornings before taking off, just like we would with a gas vehicle."

I tried to find the original post and couldn't, but maybe I missed it. I would like to know what the resolution to the issues were. But it and some subsequent posts show that habits learned during a previous era are hard to break and are no longer necessary, so some history—

Long ago when there was a choke on the dashboard, or even later when there were automatic chokes, you had to wait for a while. The engine would stall or run badly if you tried to drive a cold engine. You had to let in the choke slowly, or hope the automatic choke worked well (too often they didn't), and when the engine had warmed a bit and the carburetor was happy, you could drive away. If you didn't wait, the vehicle would run poorly until the engine warmed. With fuel injection and computers none of this is necessary. But the transmission that won't shift is another issue.

Another thing that has almost disappeared is gunning the engine before you turn off the ignition. I am guessing the reason was to leave extra fuel in the carburetor to make it easier to start. The idea of a choke is to choke off most of the air coming into the carburetor because the engine would start easier with a fuel rich mixture—adding some gas to the carburetor before you shut it off might make the mixture even richer. I never found this to work, but I have in recent years on rare occasions heard someone do it even though fuel injection makes it unnecessary (if it ever worked).

My experience is almost entirely with gas engines, not diesel. But diesel has always been fuel injected and computers have been with us for 30 years now. Before that diesels could be very hard to start in cold weather and took forever to warm up. In the late '70's. I did drive some big diesels and froze until they (and the heater) warmed up many miles down the road, but the transmission shifted fine. If they were left to idle when cold, they would hardly warm up at all; you had to drive them.

I do not miss carburetors even though I knew how they worked and how to rebuild them and am clueless with fuel injection and computers. Of course, if I want to play with them, small engines for snowblowers, RV generators, riding mowers and the like still have them and chokes too.

I still think the simplest answer to the transmission issue is the wrong fluid—if it is too thick, especially in winter, an automatic is not going to shift until the fluid gets warm.

The thread started with heat pump noise and as threads do, wandered into noise generally and then to people running engines to warm them up. I agree some diesels are really noisy when cold and sometimes when warm (usually when I hear a really loud one I see "Ford" on the vehicle). I do not like listening to them either. I always hope they drive away very soon. People who say something to the effect—"if you don't like the noise my machines are making, leave", do not have my respect. It has nothing to do with who was first in the campground; it does have a lot to do with fairness. I know some people are oversensitive and some approach you only after trying to stand it for a while and have become angry, but it is best to hear them out, put yourself in their place and work out a solution.

Gene

[Ag&Au]

Originally Posted by Gene

We've been discussing issues that have been raised by this post which was quoted by Slowmover:

"Because it takes quite a while for our truck to warm up to the point where it's usable and will shift out of first gear.

"Until a week or so ago, I thought this was completely normal for our truck, but it turns out it's not - apparently there are a couple issues that should be resolved today. Hopefully I won't have to do this any more. But we'll still probably warm it up at least a few minutes on those cold mornings before taking off, just like we would with a gas vehicle."

I tried to find the original post and couldn't, but maybe I missed it.

..........................................

Gene

Post #58

Ken

[Gene]

Thanks Ken.

Skater, is it fixed and what was the problem?

Gene

[r carl]

Maybe the seat was too far back.

[Skater]

Originally Posted by Gene

Thanks Ken.

Skater, is it fixed and what was the problem?

Gene

Sorry, I had forgotten about this thread.

I don't know if it's fixed yet - it didn't do it last time I drove it in the cold, but it had had a few minutes to warm up (cue the screams - but we were at home, and a "few minutes" was perhaps 5 minutes that time, because I was specifically trying to test this). We don't drive the truck regularly. Turns out the issue might have been some bad injectors keeping the engine from developing enough power for the computer to shift the transmission...or something like that.

Look, I'm not a fan of an idling diesel engine, believe me. It drives me nuts. I've said several times my next one will be gas because of the noise (although the newer ones are quieter) and other gripes. I told my wife the other day that I might go with a hand crank jack instead of power because of the noise if ours ever dies...she didn't seem thrilled with that idea, or the idea of moving from a diesel.

The issue is that the campground we usually cold-weather camp in (and our house, for that matter) is near some fairly busy roads, and it's not a big campground that takes a long time to get out of. The last thing I want to do is get into an accident because I had to pull out in traffic, then discover that the truck won't get above 10 mph on a 40 mph road. I'm hoping the several thousand dollars we spent on the truck just recently fixes the issue, believe me, because it's also not quite clear how long it takes before it'll shift - sometimes it's not an issue at all; other times I've been out on those busy roads, wondering if it'll shift or if someone will hit me first. If it were a larger campground, I wouldn't have a problem with starting it then just driving away, knowing it would likely warm up before we got out of the campground.

I don't know what time everyone thinks we get moving, but 9 a.m. is usually the earliest we'd have to go somewhere. That is sleeping in, to us. We're not out there at 6 a.m. making a racket. And, frankly, I look around campgrounds, and pretty much everyone else has trucks similar to mine, which have already been moved that morning, so...

And, as I said before, which was apparently ignored in favor of piling on, "warming up" is 5-10 minutes, at most. We're not talking half an hour here. I hate burning expensive diesel fuel that way. During our last trip I think I started the truck about 5 minutes before we went out of the camper, then I spent a few minutes getting snow off and winding up the block heater extension cord.

In warmer weather, we don't idle it more than the few moments you'd idle any vehicle before driving off while you're getting your seat belt fastened and such.

I don't intend to change my ways. Any more than other people drive too fast through campgrounds, cut through sites, ride their Harleys, allow their dogs to roam free and **** on my campsite (had that happen last spring), or any one of the other million things that people do that annoy each other. I at least can explain why I let my vehicle warm up a few minutes, and it's a safety issue.

I fail to understand what any of this has to do with heat pump noise.

[J. Morgan]

Idling 5 or 10 minutes (or even longer) at 9:00 AM or later shouldn't bother anyone. Idling for an hour starting at 4:30 AM, well that is different.

In this world, no matter what a person does there will be critics.

[xrvr]

Another thread that got off topic, sorry. Jim

[Ag&Au]

Originally Posted by J. Morgan

Idling 5 or 10 minutes (or even longer) at 9:00 AM or later shouldn't bother anyone. Idling for an hour starting at 4:30 AM, well that is different.

In this world, no matter what a person does there will be critics.

Maybe it shouldn't, but it certainly would bother me, especially if you were near me and the wind was blowing in my direction. Everyone seems to be only concerned with the noise, which is just a PITA. Breathing exhaust fumes is a health hazard. Internal combustion engines, even with all the pollution devices, emit a bunch of noxious gases, especially when warming up.

In this world, no matter how tolerant a person is, there will always be someone doing something thoughtless.

Ken

[Ag&Au]

Originally Posted by zigzagguzzi

Another thread that got off topic, sorry. Jim

There is a distinct advantage in some situations to "off topic posts".

In the case of another thread going on right now, the OP asked a question that only a very few people would be able to answer. It was a question about experiences with a particular model of a type of equipment. If only people who had that definitive experience replied, the thread would drop off the portal and into obscurity.

In this case the OP simply related a situation in which a neighboring camper complained about his heat pump noise. Since no specific questions were asked, my impression was he was soliciting general comments about how to deal with campground etiquette.

In a lot of other cases, the original specific topic has been beaten to death and has evolved into something different. Why start a whole new thread?

Any human conversation starts out with a given topic and then evolves as it takes place. Why should forum threads be any different?

As far as I am concerned if it would be polite in a verbal conversation, it should be polite in a forum.

If there are complaints about off topic posts, they should be coming from the originator of the thread. (my opinion)

This post is good example of what could be easily criticized and I would not argue about it?

Ken

[Gene]

I agree with Ken. Threads frequently go off topic if you define the topic narrowly. Discussion is dynamic and trying to quash a good conversation because it wanders is to deny human nature.

Skater, thanks for answering the question as best as you can now. Sounds like the injectors had been ready for servicing for a while and that (mysteriously?) affected shifting. Let us know how it works out when you get a chance to test it in really cold weather—I think it is coming back to the East.

I still think you do not need to warm up any engine for even a few minutes any more. Additionally, it wastes fuel and does pollute the area. But it is unlikely either Ken or I will ever be camped next to you since we live 2,000 miles apart. Good luck with that transmission—I appreciate the safety concerns you have and if you still have troubles, have the tranny checked thoroughly.

Gene

[xrvr]

I totally disagree! Off topic talk often leads to confusion on the OP part. Too many experts. Jim

[Ag&Au]

Originally Posted by zigzagguzzi

I totally disagree! Off topic talk often leads to confusion on the OP part. Too many experts. Jim

I'm sorry, but I find your disagreement disagreeable. In fact since you totally disagree, I find it totally disagreeable.

My intent was to help your self esteem, by saying that you had not committed an offense. However, in the future, I will allow you to continue apologizing without interference. I will withdraw my support so as not to cause conflict.

As for me, I shall continue to wander off topic blissfully as I do not consider myself an expert, no do I expect others will.

Ken

[SteveSueMac]

Originally Posted by Ag&Au

I'm sorry, but I find your disagreement disagreeable. In fact since you totally disagree, I find it totally disagreeable.

My intent was to help your self esteem, by saying that you had not committed an offense. However, in the future, I will allow you to continue apologizing without interference. I will withdraw my support so as not to cause conflict.

As for me, I shall continue to wander off topic blissfully as I do not consider myself an expert, no do I expect others will.

Ken

Take it to the Argument thread :-)

[Ag&Au]

Originally Posted by SteveSueMac

Take it to the Argument thread :-)

I was thinking about it, but decided it would be too hard to drag everyone else with me. Another thought would be to take the whole topic to Masseyfarms's Any topic thread, then the whole issue would be moot.

Ken

[xrvr]

My self esteem is fine, yours? I agree with your disagreement, but I also disagree with your disagreement on my disagreement. Oh heck!, this is fun, no hard feelings. Jim

[Ag&Au]

Originally Posted by zigzagguzzi

My self esteem is fine, yours? I agree with your disagreement, but I also disagree with your disagreement on my disagreement. Oh heck!, this is fun, no hard feelings. Jim

Naw, my self esteem has always sucked. I'm so humble, sometimes I just can't believe it.

No hard feelings ever. I just like to mince words, not emotions.

Now I think we are off topic on the "off topic" topic.

Ken
.

[xrvr]

I disagree, I think we are on topic for the off topic forum, but this is not the off topic forum,waita minute, I am confused and that is hurting my self esteem. Have a good one, jim

[urnmor]

Well I will bring it back to somewhat on topic as I have had tent campers complain about the noise from my Honda's 2000 during non quite hours.