National Park Closure?

[HeadWest]

There has been a bit of rumbling in the news that there might be a government shutdown starting April 29th if a new budget is not passed. We are planning a trip down to the four corners area including Moab and Mesa Verde from end of April to mid May and am getting a bit apprehensive about this situation.

Was anyone in these areas during the shutdown in '13 and were you able to travel into some of the closed parks (especially Arches and Canyonlands) or did they have them gated off?

[Len n Jeanne]

They were gated off when we visited Zion NP in 2013, but then opened. Interestingly, the merchants in Springdale, Utah were really upset, as it is the gateway community, and staged a protest march into the park when their incomes plummeted. The state stepped in with extra funds. And this is in a deeply red state!

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/11/us...-shutdown.html

Probably you could continue your visit to the area if you look up some Blan B parks. The state parks systems should be open; and actually a lot of the western public lands (Bureau of Land Management, US Forest Service are too vast to be tightly controlled, and are bisected by all kinds of state, federal, and county roads and highways.

There is a whole lot of wonderful desert BLM land around Moab. If you contact the town's information center, http://www.discovermoab.com/visitorcenter.htm they should be able to help you.

Dead Horse Point state park near Moab is highly commended. Commercial RV parks should be open, even if ones on federal lands are closed.

[InterBlog]

FWIW, I'm showing my age with this one, but I was locked out of Mammoth Cave National Park in October 1990, during what was, at that time, the longest federal shut-down to date. There were no contingencies or alternatives available.

[caronair]

Yes everything was shut down - as someone above said there are a lot of State Parks and BLM land BUT if you are going specifically to enter Arches and Canyonlands and govt shuts down you will most likely NOT get in... actually had to explain to some French tourists as to why the National Parks were closed- very sad!

[PKI]

If they shut down, there is access to beautiful landscapes in the general area of the parks. The Eastern entrance to Moab off I70 follows the river that is the border of Arches and there is significant scenery to experience. Just no arches. Bryce has structure outside the park and you can see most of Capital Reef from the highway. It won't be the same, but the area is still interesting even without the parks proper. And best of all, you have good reason to come back in the future.

The four corners will be a better destination in a few years when they get the improvements completed. It is a revenue generator for the tribes, so not a bad place to visit if that picture is on your bucket list.

You might consider the Western side of Colorado as an alternative for part of your trip. We towed down 550 and it is beautiful, but quite tight and twisty with interesting grades and motorcycles that get in the way. The riders see it the other way, but the point is that it's popular and a bit crowded. The train out of Durango might be a better way to see the sights, but it is a steam train and not as clean as your shiny rig.

Good luck on the trip. Pat

[mojo]

Originally Posted by PKI

The four corners will be a better destination in a few years when they get the improvements completed.

What are you talking about?

[PKI]

Originally Posted by mojo

What are you talking about?

When we visited the site last fall, there were buildings that appeared to be under construction. The existing parking was a rough and rolling dirt lot with no organized layout. It looked like there was a plan for close parking and the existing was in use pending completion. It may have improved over the winter. Anyone have an update? Pat

[jimmini]

No Government shut down.

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[HeadWest]

Thanks everyone for the comments and suggestions. I think we will try to head down a little earlier then originally planned and just roll with whatever happens. There are plenty of places that we want to explore in the area that are not part of the National Parks.

[mojo]

Originally Posted by PKI

When we visited the site last fall, there were buildings that appeared to be under construction. The existing parking was a rough and rolling dirt lot with no organized layout. It looked like there was a plan for close parking and the existing was in use pending completion. It may have improved over the winter. Anyone have an update? Pat

Still don't get it. The four corners is a regional area where four states come together. What buildings?

[xrvr]

Originally Posted by mojo

Still don't get it. The four corners is a regional area where four states come together. What buildings?

There are venders, etc set up at the four corners monument. At least there were a few years ago. These venders are in buildings. My guess you have never been there, it's a one time thing.

[mojo]

Oh I have been to the Four Corners Monument....very forgettable and a rip-off. Not even located in the correct geographical spot.

[xrvr]

Agree.

[McDave]

Originally Posted by mojo

Oh I have been to the Four Corners Monument....very forgettable and a rip-off. Not even located in the correct geographical spot.

Does this mean there is not a place that is marked such that you can actually put your feet in two states and your hands in two other states? You just have to pretend to do it? Tell me it ain't so, Joe! I could pretend to do it in my backyard!

[tjdonahoe]

We might all be better off if our government did shut down and leave...

[PKI]

Originally Posted by mojo

Still don't get it. The four corners is a regional area where four states come together. What buildings?

There is a developed site at four corners. It is a stadium design with seating facing the four corners point. There is a marker in the middle and vender stalls integrated in the wall structure that encloses the stadium area.

However, the area and structure outside the main structure does not seem to be complete. Looks like restrooms, primarily, but they had no water, were taped off as a hazard, and looked incomplete.

This is not a Federal Park. It is operated by the Tribal government that controls the Four Corners Area.

Not trying to be the expert here. We just went there. No research prior, during, or since. We had this site on our travel bucket list for about twenty years and were glad to check it off. We had hoped to get a picture of our pups with a paw in each state. They don't allow dogs in the stadium area, so we watched several folks do the picture thing with their kids and rolled.

edit - spend a minute and look it up on Google Maps. Cost to enter was $10.

Travel safe. Pat

[eubank]

Sure, it's worth a little visit. I generally then try a mutton taco or somesuch from one of the vendors. Tasty stuff!

And, yes, it turns out that the marker is a bit off. No big deal. You'd be surprised by how many old borders are not exactly in the right place by modern GPS standards. In some cases, big bucks get involved, but in most cases, it's benign.


Lynn

[A W Warn]

The state's corners are correct as marked by the monument. The original survey was off, but the states agreed to accept the original survey, so the monument is the lawful boundary location.

Some good reading here, https://www.ngs.noaa.gov/INFO/fourcorners.shtml, where this quote came from.
"A basic tenet of boundary surveying is that once a monument has been established and accepted by the parties involved (in the case of the Four Corners monument, the parties were the four territories and the U.S. Congress), the location of the physical monument is the ultimate authority in delineating a boundary. Issues of legality trump scientific details,"

[Ken J]

Whoa - they charge for that and have stadium seating ? - last time I was there you just drove up and looked at this little marker - how things change


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