Looking for advice on Our first adventure Mtn West

[AirPuff]

Hi everyone, first post here. Our kids (12, 9, 5) have finally reached the age where we can do adventurous summer trips. To date, we have mainly focused on the beach and the lake, which has been great, but we want to take it up a notch this summer. We are looking for advice on a few things and as beginners, really look forward to learning from all of the experts in this community!

About us, we are a young, adventurous family, with an old soul mentality. We like to find off the beaten path areas, but also love seeing the big main attractions and want to make sure our kids get a glimpse of the beauty of America before they get too old. We hope this summer is one of many to come, and would love to do the west coast, Pacific Northwest, far north east, and other beautiful sections of the country in future years. We also have two amazing three year old, yellow labs that will be along for the ride with us!

1) for the trip, we are planning on leaving in early to mid June and returning home in mid to late July. While we know this is the busiest time, it is what it is with school calendars and such. We live in Birmingham and plan on driving to Colorado with one or two stops in between. We then want to hit Rocky Mountain national Park, then head south to Telluride, where my husband has some moderate off-road trails he wants to do around the Ouray and Silverton areas. We then plan to head to Moab for arches, Canyon lands, and more off-road trails. We were then thinking to head south west to the Grand Canyon, then up to Zion and Bryce Canyon. From there we will go through Salt Lake City and end up in Jackson hole so we can get to the grand Tetons and Yellowstone immediately afterward. We then close out our trip with a stretch through Montana including horseback riding, maybe around the Missoula area and finally arriving in whitefish for a launch into glacier national Park. My husband has spent a little time in Colorado, Utah, Montana, and Wyoming, but we have never done so, without being on an airplane first.

2) my husband has a Lexus LX 570 which is the same thing as a fairly new Land Cruiser. It can tow I think 8000 or 8500 pounds. Given our family of five and two dogs, we are leaning toward a 27 or 28 foot airstream. We really like the layout of the international 28 RV, but are just now beginning our search. The idea of our oldest two kids on the couch bed, and our youngest on the dinette bed seems like a good fit for us, providing enough space, and separation so that hopefully they all stay happy and same throughout the trip. We have never owned an airstream or a travel trailer/RV, so this is a new world for us! We definitely look forward to any advice you are willing to lend!

3) since we have never planned a trip like this before, we have no idea what you experts use to help organize and plan your logistics. So far we have simply put dots on a map that are spaced out about right for single day drives, connecting all the dots mentioned in item number one above. Beyond that, we really haven’t done much. What are you guys using to help organize and plan logistics such as campsite, reservations, attractions, hiking trails, and important areas of interest that you want to make sure you do not miss in each park, and always thinking three or five days ahead on where we are going next so we don’t get in a bind. Maybe there is an app for this? We also know there are certain campsites that you must reserve months in advance, so getting ahead of those is also going to be Key.

We apologize for the long post and thank you in advance for any help and guidance you can pass along. We are in the very early stages of planning and have learned that it’s always best to ask those who know earlier rather than later!

[field & stream]

Sounds like a wonderful trip for you and the kids……except it sounds like two or three wonderful trips spread over two or three years! My guess is you will have to cover 6-8,000 miles in about as many weeks. You won’t be able to spend any quality time in your destination stops.

There are other considerations too: the southwest will be HOT, reservations will be hard to impossible at this point in the national parks you mention (the reservations window opened a couple of months ago), and even finding space in nice RV parks is no sure thing.

I totally support your goals, and hate to be a wet blanket, but in my opinion you really need to divide this into two or three different excursions.

In any event, get moving now and fast on reservations. And best wishes for whatever you decide to do.

[Hans627]

First of all welcome to the forum. It is a great place to learn and share.

You have obviously spent a good bit of time looking over maps/internet to get ideas of where you want to visit. They are all wonderful places. But I agree with field & stream's comment about you being a bit optimistic about such a trip. For example, from Birmingham to RMNP is almost 1400 miles. Even with two stops that would average 466 miles /day, or 10 hours of driving. While doable it is not enjoyable, especially with 3 young kids and two dogs. And pulling a trailer is more tiring than just driving.

Plus there is a learning curve to having/towing an AS (or any RV for that matter). Are you thinking of a new one or used?

In answer to your question about an app for trip planning, many people, ourselves included, use RV Trip Wizard (https://tripwizard.rvlife.com/). There are many videos on YouTube about how it works. It will do everything you are requesting.

Let us know which AS you decide to get and how your trip planning progresses. And don't wait in getting it. It doesn't have to be a trip across the country for you to find enjoyment and make wonderful memories for you and your kids!

All the best.

[jeffmc306]

AirPuff, welcome to the Airstream Community and Forums! Your story is very familiar to many of the readers.

One thing many beginners learn is what your vehicle can tow and its payload capacity are two different things. You’ll want to check the door sticker on both vehicles for that number.

The actual tongue weight on a 27’ or 28’ Airstream is closer to 1100 lbs. You need to deduct that from the vehicle’s payload then add the weight of your family, dogs and luggage. Compare that to the tow vehicle’s payload.

The other specs to watch are the vehicle axle’s GVWR. This is how much weight you can put on the front and rear axles. You’ll be able to measure that by going to a CAT scale at a truck stop.

Bottom line is you don’t want to ruin your dream by not having a proper tow vehicle. We’re on our 3rd tow vehicle, now a 3/4 ton truck with 2941 lbs of payload.

Good luck with your search!

[LBelle]

While we all have our different styles when it comes to camping I think you have far too much in your plans - I would guess you would be spending the majority of your time on the road rather than enjoying campsites, trails etc etc. And travel time is somewhat, or significantly, slower with a camping trailer. We are an older couple and do not like to travel over 250 miles a day...you might be able to handle more but with the kids I would suggest maybe not.
Paring your route down just means there is more in the years to come and you can actually see more of the national parks/areas that you visit - "less is more".
Another concern is the availability of camp sites at this stage - many if not most national parks are filled with reservations at this time and at least is Oregon and Washington that goes for state parks too. There are certainly other options - national forest or BLM sites but they may be without hookups, if that is important, and right now I fear some of these sites may not open due to the lack of staffing, many if not most seasonal staff have been fired.

[JBamadon]

As you say you are new to RV travel, you may want to start out with some shorter, less mileage trips this year. You will likely also need some experience to get comfortable with hitching, backing, set up camp, tear down camp and a little maintenance. A good book is “Newbies Guide To Airstreaming” by Rich Luhr. We plan trips with RV trip Wizard and Harvest Host. We also limit our mileage to about 325 a day as that’s about 6 hours moving. Kids and dogs need breaks and you will find that 6 hours easily becomes an 8+ hour travel. Going cross country we usually do 3-4 days of one night stops, then throw in a lay day to decompress.
Five people and 2 big dogs will fill up a 27-28 foot Airstream. Go to a dealer and sit in one with the door closed for 15 mins to get a real feel. Set it up for sleeping as well to get the idea what it will take every day. You can do it, it’s just going to be busy. A six week trip might be better suited for season two of camping so you get thru the initial boot camp adjustments and set everybody up for a lifetime of camping.
Read about Tow Vehicles here on the Forum. Payload capability is more important than Tow capability. There are lots of opinions on tow vehicles. Airstream’s have lots of storage but it’s not massive, so your truck may need to haul camping equipment/toys also. Make a list to see what I mean. Bring the list when you go see a trailer.
We applaud your plans and we really enjoy/recommend the trip you are going to take. I just suggest starting with little steps so you continue for a long time.

[overlander64]

Greetings AirPuff!


Welcome to the Forums and the world of Airstreams and Airstreaming!


I applaud you and your husband for planning such a wonderful adventure for your family!! Your children are at ages where they will be able to learn so much about our country from their travels.


While I applaud your plan, I do agree with earlier posters who caution that you may be being somewhat optimistic in what can be covered in the the time frame of your plans. As novices to towing a large travel trailer, even an easier to tow Airstream, it will take some time to become accustomed to traveling with the combination of tow vehicle and trailer. There are as many opinions about towing speeds and reasonable towing distances for travel days as there are Airstream owners, but realistically very few cover as many miles when towing on a trip as they would on a similar trip without a trailer. I have been towing a travel trailer since 1980, and my 26-foot Airstream since 1995 -- during that time, I have learned that to really enjoy a trip 250 to 350 miles is about the maximum for a travel day with any hopes of relaxation along the way -- for my best fuel economy I limit my towing speed to 60 MPH on those rare occasions when I must use an Interstate but normally travel 55 MPH on the more scenic Secondary Highways. There is a certain amount of additional stress involved with towing a travel trailer so more frequent rest stops are beneficial to concentration and safety.


Something else that you might want to consider are the numerous historic sights that you will be traveling near as you make this trip. Seeing these sights could be quite educational for your children. Most of these sights will have suitable parking nearby for RVs.


As a hint from someone who began camping as a 10 year old in 1969 with his parents in a 8.5' Slide In Sun Way Truck Camper, our vacations were vastly different once we purchased that camper in 1969. Our first year was a learning year. My parents tried to do what they had always done with our car -- our travel day started at 8:00 AM and we traveled until near Dusk. We often arrived at the campground with everyone tired, cranky, and ill-at-ease. The days became a chore, and the sights were rushed, and quite honestly, I have few memories from that first year other than having to walk across a rickety foot bridge in Cherokee, North Carolina. What we did in later years with that truck camper and later tent campers was to begin our travel days at 10:30 AM, plan frequent stops (about 90 minutes apart), take in as many interesting sights as possible, and find a campground by 4:00 PM. It meant that we either had to extend our vacations or limit our miles traveled. I will have to admit that it was just my mother and I by the time that I was in high school and able to help out with the driving -- which meant that we had most of the summer available as my mother was a public school teacher.


Good luck with your investigation and decision! Your trip sounds like a wonderful experience for your family!!


Kevin

[AirPuff]

Hi everyone, I'm AirPuff's husband and co-planner on this trip. Thank you for all the wonderful advice so far, this is truly invaluable. We're definitely hearing a few themes throughout your replies that make us think we might need to massage our plans a bit. Here are a few things for clarification and a few thoughts/ideas. Sorry again for the long post - we're still very new at this!

Our Family:
It might help to understand a bit more about us. I'm 43 and AirPuff is 39 and we're both very active. Our kids are up by 7am every day (how we wish they'd let us sleep till 8 for once!) and always on the move. For example, we planned 2-3 days at Magic Kingdom once and had knocked out our itinerary by 2:30pm on Day 1 with the kids asking What's Next. AirPuff and I have learned that we have to slow ourselves and them down and really soak in the experiences. We've gotten better, but aren't perfect. We both do cross fit 2-3x per week and eat healthy. Our active/healthy lifestyle works, and I honestly feel I have more energy now than I did when I was in high school (not intended to be a bragging point, sorry if it sounds like one). Back before kids, the two of us completed most of the Southern sections on the Appalacian Trail on weekends spending multi-night stretches off grid filtering our own water and boiling water for dinners each night LOL. Simply put, as a family, when we want to move fast, we can as it's our comfort zone.

The Idea:
Up until this point, our kids have simply been too young to pull something like this off without them (and us) going crazy. However, we've seen over the past year that they are ready. They can make it 6+ hrs in the car without major melt-downs. But more importantly, I feel like they are curious about the world and don't know what they don't know. My parents never did camping trips - we went to the beach and played with kids in the neighborhood. AirPuff's parents did more, but always flying to destinations (Hawaii, London, Paris, Grand Canyon, etc). I love road tripping and overlanding, and I think that same love is currently dormant inside of our family. I really want to see if I can unlock and unleash it!

The Trip:
Maybe we were envisioning this incorrectly, but we saw this first trip as an Appetizer to the Mountain West. A way to see every iconic part for 2-3 days in order to let them experience it and for us, solidify an understanding of where we want to spend more time in the future. Maybe eventually even buying a place out there in the summers so we can get to cool spots faster/easier.

Towing:
Yes, none of us have ever pulled an AS/Camper/Travel Trailer across the country. With that said, I'm an engineer (ME/EE) who has a love for all things mechanical. Outside of work and family life, I spend my time restoring Toyota/Lexus vehicles in our 3rd car garage spot (just completed my 10th one). I also love offroad/overlanding (it's just in my DNA I think) and built a race truck and raced in the world's hardest offroad race for a few years before COVID hit. After placing in the Top 10, I checked that off the list and sold the truck to Toyota who now races it. The only reason I say this is because that adventure included trailering a 6,000lb vehicle on a 25' trailer from AL to CA and back multiple times. The race was held in Johnson Valley, CA (near Palm Springs) so we had to go "Off Grid" in a rental RV for 2-3 weeks each time with no water or electricity hook-ups. Some days it snowed. Others it was 90deg and sunny. Some nights the wind hit 40-50mph. It was at times scary, and others exhilarating. You truly feel alive.
Honestly the idea of getting a tow rig (my Lexus or even a Truck we buy specifically for this trip and then sell afterward), driving an AS across country, getting the camper all setup, fixing things that break, etc is one of the things I'm looking forward to the most. With little ones at home, I don't get that feeling of just "going and getting out there". I crazily miss those 3-hr stretches between gas stations in Utah on the Salt Flats and Nortnern NV on I-80 where you finally see how truly big and amazing our country is. I miss that feeling, but more than anything, I want our kids to see and experience it and think/hope they are old enough to appreciate it.

Destinations:
Moab is the mecca for offroading. We've been there and LOVE it. Outside of Northern CA (future trip on the Rubicon Trail), Ouray CO is the next place on my bucket list for offroading (Alpine Loop, Black Bear Pass, Poughkeepsie). I've also driven across most of UT, WY, and MT and love those sections of the country. So, simply put, CO, UT, WY, and MT are all must-haves for the "Appetizer" trip we were envisioning.

Our Fears:
With all that said, the National Parks honestly make me the most nervous. I think we can successfully "escape" and find spots in Moab, Ouray, Missoula, Whitefish, etc without a ton of planning. The National Parks are a different animal, and filled with uncertainty for us. We now realize that we are truly behind on these and are going to have to hope either a) we get lucky and a spot opens up in the park or b) we can find spots in neighboring towns (ex. Whitefish or Jackson Hole) and drive into the park daily (or even drive in and backpack/camp for one night, then back to the camper). Worst case scenario, we find the best spot we can, fill our tanks with fresh water, shower in a lake (LOL), hope for cool nights where we can turn off the AC, and trust that our Solar Panels can sustain us the rest of the way! From your posts, we now know that experts have been planning their exact spots in the parks for months and likely snagged them the first day reservations opened. So Yes, you're right, we are inevitably behind here.

I'm also 100% confident that the first few days will be rough. Not just the travel time. I fully expect the AL to CO and the stretch through Salt Lake City to WY to be pretty rough - I hope to complete them in 2-3 days max each and will recover in the destinations instead. But also, just the idea of the kids acclimating to life on-the-road and in a camper in general. We think having the dogs will help - they're a safety blanket for them for sure. It will be rough at times.

But, I'm also 100% confident that they will not only adapt, I'm excited to see then evolve. Seeing something they've never see before (ex. the stars in the dark of MT, the huge mountain tops of the Tetons) that will Wow them more than the technology based attractions that try to capture their attention minute-by-minute. That's what I'm looking forward to.

Immersion:
A theme of the responses above is one I'm very familiar with. A few years ago we bought a "fixer upper" in terrible shape on the gulf coast a few houses from the beach. Until then, we had done the normal 1-week at the beach each summer. Owning a place and spending months at a time down there allowed us to see a whole new side of the community and experience many things that visitors simply will never see or understand. I 100% believe this is also true of each of the national parks and "small towns" on our list. However, we simply have to work with the limited time School Calendars give us with our kids each summer (2.5 months at the most). We are simply going to have to write-off deep-immersion and instead settle for multi-day glimpses knowing that those will inform where we want to settle down more in future years. While our Youngest has many years to come, our oldest realistically only has a handful of summers with us before sports/college begin to consume our time. So, we have to take advantage while we can.

Logistics:
RV Trip Wizzard sounds like a perfect fit for our start. Thank you for those! We'll start digging in!

Overall, the big skies of the Mountain West are definitely calling us. We know it'll be hot (but it can't be that much worse than 100deg with 100% humidity that we see in AL/FL), we know the road-day sprints, where required, will be long (but they can't be worse than the 24-hr stretch I did once on the way back from CA to AL). We know the parks will be packed (but maybe we can find less crowded escapes somewhere).

The open road and the feeling of wandering and experiencing is calling me. AirPuff and our kids don't even know what that feeling feels like yet. I'm excited to see if/how it grows inside of them and gives them that desire to go that they can carry with them in life. Sorry again for the novel .

[AirPuff]

Husband again. One quick post on the tow vehicle. I think we have 2 options, with both requiring compromise.

1) Lexus LX570 + 27-28' AS
Pros: It can do the trails in Moab/Ouray that I'm really excited about. It will be really comfortable for the kids during the long stretch sprints. And I have confirmed that it can pull the trailer via friends with the same LX570 who have pulled the same AS setup for years on similar trips.

Cons: It will be tight space-wise during those longs prints. MPGs won't be ideal, but the cost of gas is way less than the cost of a new vehicle. It certainly cannot tow as well as a F250/F350 or equivalent.

2) New Truck + 30'+ AS
Pros: It will have plenty of power for towing, plenty of room for the kids and storage in the bed, and maybe better MPG since it's truly built for this.

Cons: I cannot do the offroading/overlanding/off-grid stuff that I'm excited about. So we'd likely have to rent Jeeps/Broncos and Side-by-Sides in Moab and Ouray. This is fine, except they won't let you do the really iconic trails that are on my list (ex. Black Bear Pass isn't allowed).

We're still thinking through both options and will have to settle either way as an ideal solution simply doesn't exist. With #1, we will need to build-out our LX570 (it's stock currently). With #2, we will need to buy a truck and then plan to sell it afterwards or store it somewhere as I simply don't want it as my daily driver (I'm just a Toyota/Lexus enthusiast through-and-through).

Thanks again for letting us get away with these super long posts and for your advice/experience in advance.

[RickyNelson]

Airpuff Fam - welcome and congrats! Like with anything in life, the best plans will change or get interrupted so allow yourself some wiggle room and a chance to pivot if needed. As much offense as you are playing with the details, play defense when driving. No matter how aggressive or how relaxed, your kiddos will remember this and all your others AS adventures forever.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

We can easily drive for 12 hours in a car. If we're towing something closer to 6 hours is a pretty long day. Why?

You get up and do the "normal stuff". You are sharing one very small bathroom with the entire group. You then do breakfast in a very small kitchen. Everything needs to be cleaned up and put away after all this. There is limited room so "more hands" may not really speed things up.

You then need to get the campsite broken down. Just what's involved is a "that depends" sort of thing. If you unhitched it's not going to be a "zero time" kind of event.

Next up you drive for a bit to get "back on route". Campsites that are reasonable to stay at typically are not going to be right there on the interstate. If they are, you all must have a very high tolerance for noise .

Once you are back on route, things like getting gas (or any sort of stop) take more time with a trailer in tow. There are a *lot* of places you can get into but not get back out of. You need to avoid pulling into places like that . This takes a bit of planning and likely a "drive by and see" before you do this or do that. More time spent.

Towards the end of the day's drive, you pull off route and head for your campsite for the night. You may well get there and be a bit surprised. Being surprised in the daylight is far easier to deal with vs the same thing in the dark. It is not at all unusual for there to be a check in process (even for a free site). There also will likely be some "fun" involved parking in the designated location.

Now you need to "set up camp". Just what's needed is variable. If you unhitch (as you may well do), there's some time just for that.

Now it's time to unpack the kitchen and get cooking on small set of appliances. Yes, it can be done. No, it's not as fast as "at home".

Eventually it's time for bed. Same issue with the tiny bathroom .... If some of the crew sleep in improvised locations, those need to be set up.

Sounds like the full plan? ..... not really ....

I'd suggest that *seeing* the place you just pulled over at is part of what you should be doing. No matter where you are, there's sure to be something interesting to go do. Allowing an hour or three for this is a really good idea. Blasting through the country means you miss a lot of stuff.

Now, toss in three kids plus a very small trailer (that's tight for just two adults ....) you get into a whole lot of added this and added that.

Bob

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by AirPuff

Husband again. One quick post on the tow vehicle. I think we have 2 options, with both requiring compromise.

1) Lexus LX570 + 27-28' AS
Pros: It can do the trails in Moab/Ouray that I'm really excited about. It will be really comfortable for the kids during the long stretch sprints. And I have confirmed that it can pull the trailer via friends with the same LX570 who have pulled the same AS setup for years on similar trips.

Cons: It will be tight space-wise during those longs prints. MPGs won't be ideal, but the cost of gas is way less than the cost of a new vehicle. It certainly cannot tow as well as a F250/F350 or equivalent.

2) New Truck + 30'+ AS
Pros: It will have plenty of power for towing, plenty of room for the kids and storage in the bed, and maybe better MPG since it's truly built for this.

Cons: I cannot do the offroading/overlanding/off-grid stuff that I'm excited about. So we'd likely have to rent Jeeps/Broncos and Side-by-Sides in Moab and Ouray. This is fine, except they won't let you do the really iconic trails that are on my list (ex. Black Bear Pass isn't allowed).

We're still thinking through both options and will have to settle either way as an ideal solution simply doesn't exist. With #1, we will need to build-out our LX570 (it's stock currently). With #2, we will need to buy a truck and then plan to sell it afterwards or store it somewhere as I simply don't want it as my daily driver (I'm just a Toyota/Lexus enthusiast through-and-through).

Thanks again for letting us get away with these super long posts and for your advice/experience in advance.

Hi

I would suggest that a 30' AS is pretty tight with three kids and two adults. You will have very limited storage and a *lot* of stuff to bring along. Going smaller / lighter simply makes this even more difficult to deal with.

If this is a "do it once and sell everything afterwords" sort of deal ( = sell the truck afterwords )..... that sounds pretty costly. I'd suggest renting a Class A (and passing a driving test) or Super C instead. There is a *lot* of learning / equipment involved even with a rental. Still it would be cheaper.

Bob

[coasttocoast]

My thoughts about travel-
Don’t go anywhere where the temps are above 75 degrees.
Avoid interstate highways as much as possible.
Avoid campgrounds as often as possible.
Don’t drive long distances in one day.
Don’t cook in your rig- eat take out.
Travel as lightly as possible.
Take lots of photos with a camera, not a phone.

[field & stream]

Important: in the National Parks you cannot park your car along the side of the road overnight. You cannot take your dogs on the trails, or wandering off into the woods either. Backcountry camping is very limited, requires reservations which you are too late for, and does not allow dogs.

I am pretty sure that you love your dogs, but I am certain that grizzly bears hate them. There are 1,000 griz in the greater Yellowstone area. Taking your dogs into the Yellowstone backcountry would be like taking your pet worm to a trout lake for a swim. Not good for humans either: griz weigh several hundred pounds, run as fast as a horse, have reflexes like cats, and can climb trees and swim. As someone said: “what’s your plan?”

Since you are focusing on National Parks, I constructively and respectfully suggest you research their policies.

[215Airhaus]

Your most limiting factor is the mileage. Until you have towed, and towed days on end, you don't know how draining it can be. When you tow you are using all of your senses all the time, because you have to in order to stay safe. I would adjust the entire itinerary based upon a max of 300-350 per day, and that's a lot. Although the joy is in the journey, you don't want to be driving all the time.

One other point, I have a little concern regarding your tow vehicle with a trailer that size. Please confirm with a professional that you are going to be good to go with that set-up.

Let me say this, the trip will be epic. I promise that. Enjoy it and the love of your family.

Cheers!

[Mikebrady62]

Welcome AirPuff and family!
Your trip sounds amazing and your family will surely love it. I would certainly make this a 6 week trip over a 4 week if you can. If you can't, I would still go. From the sounds of it, several nights of boondocking doesn't scare you in the slightest and that is perfect. I would make loose plans as you go and not worry about too many reservations. We like to skip the busy national park camping and stay just outside the NP. We stayed in Cody WY for a day then got up early and got to the East gate entrance to Yellowstone as it was opening. Spent the morning catching many of the famous sights there and headed out to the eastern edge of Idaho in a RV park on Henrys Lake. (no reservation until the day before) then went back again the next morning as the park opened. Many of our NP visits are this way.
We have been unable to find a RV park to stay in that is close to where we want to visit but there are so many places and so much BLM land out west to stay on for free with no reservation necessary. Those sometime end being a 2-3 day stop because there is so much to do, see and hike.
I say have a great time and don't worry too much about reservations if you like to boondock.
Safe Travels!

[Forester2]

Another limiting factor to consider is the length of your camper and tow vehicle. If you look at Natl Pk, State Pk and even Natl Forest reservation sites, the longer your rig, the fewer camp sites are availible. Remember, most of your time hopefully will be spent outside. The addition of a screened shelter like a Clam make for nice additional space while taking up minimial space.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

If you want to camp *in* the National Parks when "school is out", best to plan ahead. Reservations for the campgrounds open up some number of months in advance. Being on your computer at the right time is a really good idea. It is not unusual for them to "sell out" in a few hours.

Yes, some number of spots are "first come first serve". You can head over at 6AM with your trailer all hooked up and get in line. You may have to do this a couple days in a row to get a spot.

A "typical" answer is to camp outside the park and drive in each day. There are usually a number of commercial campgrounds to pick between. As mentioned above there also are other options.

Not mentioned yet as part of this are hookups. Your trailer uses power to do stuff. You need to hook it up to water from time to time. You also need to dump tanks. A "full hookup" site lets you do this. Not all sites have full hookups. Often you have a choice between no hookups and a great vies vs full hookups and a "parking lot" setting.

If you have pets, that will limit which campgrounds you can pick in some cases. Here in PA they have "no pet" zones. That applies to a lot of places. They also need to "go for walks" and "stuff" gets collected to be put in the trash when they do. That takes time. How much time depends on the pet (and the number of folks available).

While letting the kid walk the dog sounds like a great idea, there are "concerns". There's a picture around here somewhere of me and my sister coming back from dropping off a trash bag in Yellowstone. We could not figure out just why our parents seemed to be yelling at us. (Ok, at 10 years old that's not unusual ). The picture very clearly shows Momma Bear and here three cubs trotting along a ways behind us.

Fun !!!

Bob

[uncle_bob]

Hi

So, you go over and do some shopping for your AS trailer. You all go over and spend a few hours trying to fit into each example of this / that / the other model or floor plan You take a look at the storage and seating. You try to work out where the pets will fit. Everybody sees if the seats work after an hour sitting in them. (There will be really rainy days ....).

Eventually you work out what size and floor plan works for you. There's then the "used vs new vs order in" decision. Each has its own benefits and drawbacks. If it's order in, there will be a "months" sort of wait.

Now that you *know* what sort of trailer you have picked, you head off to work out the tow vehicle. Forcing a giant trailer to work with a tiny tow ... yikes. Does everybody (us included) go over with the *hope* that the vehicle they have will work? Sure they do. If you will be doing long trips with a big load, don't let that push you into a bad solution.

The day arrives and you go over to pick up your trailer. If it's new, the dealer will ( = should) spend a couple of hours going over the various systems on the trailer. If it's used, who knows about that part. Even *with* the 2 hour information dump, best advice is to spend the night at the dealer and "find things". In the morning you just might have an hours worth of questions to ask.

Part of that process will involve picking a hitch and getting it set up properly. This is *not* a simple decision. There are tons of threads here debating just what you should do.

Somewhere about this point, the folks at the local "kitchen stuff" store are going to notice a measurable increase in sales . There's a lot of "how do I fit this" sort of back and forth. There is not a lot of room and efficient storage that uses all of it is vital. If you get that done in less than five passes ... it's a world record

Best now to plan a half dozen "weekend trips". Go someplace close to home. That makes the "run back for the thing I forgot" a whole lot easier. You will learn a lot on each of these trips. You likely will adapt your gear a bit as a result. You might add a tent to the mix ( hint: wet tent in the morning is not a lot of fun ... we spent decades dealing with that ....). As you add things your total weight goes up.

One thing you *will* need practice on is backing the trailer into a campsite. It's not as simple as some videos make it look. No, it's also not as hard as some others would claim. You very much want to get that practice in on real campsites. Best to do it when the sun is out and nobody is exhausted from a long day's drive.

As part of this, there's a fun place called the CAT scales. You will see big trucks pulling through them on a regular basis. You do need weight numbers to know if things are ok. Yes you can go into the "overkill" range on a tow vehicle. The closer you are to "max" the more often you will need to visit the scales.

It also is not uncommon to decide after a few trial runs that you need to "tweak" things in the trailer. Hooks here and there are a very common thing to add. Changes to the entertainment system are not unusual. There may be a Starlink in your future . Lots of stuff that gets worked out *before* the big trip. In most areas there's plenty of time between the campgrounds opening up and the end of school.

Is this a complete list of *everything* nope, not even close. Is it a terrifying experience? No, it's actually a lot of fun. It's a whole lot less fun if you try to compress it into a short time period.

Ready to go on that giant trip? Maybe. I'd suggest that a couple two week trips are a better "next step" than one giant trip. Get used to how fast you empty the fresh water / need to dump the waste (that will factor into trip planning in a big way). Get used to how long you can go without shore power (also a trip plan biggie). Learn how to manage both water and power so you can stretch that out ....

Again, this is a fun thing to do. It also is a bit involved. There is a lot of learning along the way.

Bob

[jeffmc306]

Originally Posted by AirPuff

Husband again. One quick post on the tow vehicle. I think we have 2 options, with both requiring compromise.

1) Lexus LX570 + 27-28' AS
Pros: It can do the trails in Moab/Ouray that I'm really excited about. It will be really comfortable for the kids during the long stretch sprints. And I have confirmed that it can pull the trailer via friends with the same LX570 who have pulled the same AS setup for years on similar trips.

Cons: It will be tight space-wise during those longs prints. MPGs won't be ideal, but the cost of gas is way less than the cost of a new vehicle. It certainly cannot tow as well as a F250/F350 or equivalent.

2) New Truck + 30'+ AS
Pros: It will have plenty of power for towing, plenty of room for the kids and storage in the bed, and maybe better MPG since it's truly built for this.

Cons: I cannot do the offroading/overlanding/off-grid stuff that I'm excited about. So we'd likely have to rent Jeeps/Broncos and Side-by-Sides in Moab and Ouray. This is fine, except they won't let you do the really iconic trails that are on my list (ex. Black Bear Pass isn't allowed).

We're still thinking through both options and will have to settle either way as an ideal solution simply doesn't exist. With #1, we will need to build-out our LX570 (it's stock currently). With #2, we will need to buy a truck and then plan to sell it afterwards or store it somewhere as I simply don't want it as my daily driver (I'm just a Toyota/Lexus enthusiast through-and-through).

Thanks again for letting us get away with these super long posts and for your advice/experience in advance.

If you want to tow with your LX570 I’d suggest contacting Andy at CanAm who specializes in modifying vehicles to tow Airstreams. There’s another section on AirFourms dedicated to Porsche/Audi/Touareg towing and Andy’s helped many of those folks.

He will take your phone call and discuss your options. Don’t forget you’ll need to extend your mirrors to see around the wide body Airstreams.

I did find a review of towing with an LX570 and in his experience, the shorter wheelbase does contribute to instability with a closed trailer. It’s all about compromises…

I’d much rather tow with an SUV than a 3/4 ton truck but the reality is our Touareg TDI didn’t have the payload for us to feel safe. Same with a RAM 1500 that only had 1220 lbs. of payload. Towed fine, plenty of power but was over the rear axle’s GVWR and at times, felt like the tail was wagging the dog.

The most precious cargo you’ll carry is not the trailer; it’s your spouse and children. If you can get the LX570 set up to safely tow without risking them, go for it.

The other option is to get a capable truck to tow a 27-30’ that would come with trailering mirrors and plenty of payload (plus the bed for storage) and have your spouse drive the LX570 when you want to do off-roading. That way you can have your cake and eat it too!