Ford 10-speed ... how hot is too hot?

[WhereStream]

There seem to be plenty here who tow with Ford's EcoBoost V6 and the 10-speed transmission, so perhaps someone can help me with this question.

We have a new (2019) Ford Expedition, which has the V6 and the 10-speed transmission.

Recently took our 19-footer to a campground in Georgia — Black Rock Mountain State Park — that has a steep climb.

Heading up, the transmission got warm, then got warmer, then got hot — 230 degrees, at one point.

Wasn't that hot for long, but it still caused me concern.

I can't find in the owner's manual a range of acceptable operating temperatures. Does anyone know?

I'd like to know where "too hot" begins and what to do when the transmission temp gets way up there.

My Ford has the towing package, and is four-wheel-drive.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Most PCM's will go into limp mode with fluid temps somewhere above 260*

Ck"Limp mode" & transmission in your owners manual
If the vehicle has a temp gauge it's parameters will be explained there.

Bob
🇺🇸

[JJTX]

Originally Posted by WhereStream

There seem to be plenty here who tow with Ford's EcoBoost V6 and the 10-speed transmission, so perhaps someone can help me with this question.

We have a new (2019) Ford Expedition, which has the V6 and the 10-speed transmission.

Recently took our 19-footer to a campground in Georgia — Black Rock Mountain State Park — that has a steep climb.

Heading up, the transmission got warm, then got warmer, then got hot — 230 degrees, at one point.

Wasn't that hot for long, but it still caused me concern.

I can't find in the owner's manual a range of acceptable operating temperatures. Does anyone know?

I'd like to know where "too hot" begins and what to do when the transmission temp gets way up there.

My Ford has the towing package, and is four-wheel-drive.

Check to make sure theres an aux transmission cooler on it. It should have one if it has the towing package. If it does not, get one installed.

What engine does it have ? Theres two Ecoboost engines. I assume the expedition would have the 3.5.

Did you put the selector in TOW HAUL mode ? It should lock out the last couple gears to prevent it from shifting a lot.

The main reason of tranny heating up is excessive shifting. When towing on a grade, you should be keeping it locked to a specific gear where its not straining and not let it shift back and forth.

I pulled 10K+ Mountain passes last fall and my temp gague never went over 205F. I have the 3.5 Ecoboost in an F150

I will be doing the same thing next week on the way to Montana.

[Gary W]

I have experienced the same temperatures you did coming from Cody, WYO over Hwy 14 into Yellowstone. If you did not find the answer in your owner's manual then ask your Ford dealer.
My transmission temperature gauge has a yellow zone before the overheated red zone. 230 degrees is in the upper caution zone. Your transmission has synthetic fluid. You'll find the first transmission service is at 150K, there is no dipstick or fill tube for the user as it's a sealed system. My normal temperature is 190 empty or towing and will rise to 205 on a long hill.
Investigate for yourself but I think you are fine. I'm pulling a larger rig with a F150.

[n2916s]

In many cases, manually downshifting will help a lot — at higher RPM you are moving a lot more fluid through the cooling system. Nowadays, most vehicles use electric instead of engine driven fans and they will often be programmed to speed up at higher RPM as well.

[Daquenzer]

That seems a bit hot.
1) Should always be in tow haul mode.
2) I agree with other post that there should be a higher capacity cooling system.

I tow a 28' with that same engine and it doesn't get near that warm. But I have a max tow haul set up which has a larger cooling component.

[TravisH]

Hi,

Modern transmission run a LOT hotter! I used to be concerned with 180°!

New 2019+ Tundras WITH tow package have NO ATF cooler! A small heat exchanger and they run ~220°++ all day long! I gathered transmission wear is greater from low temperatures so they are more concerned with getting up to temp. If you think about it this makes sense as most trips are not long enough to get temps high enough quickly enough...

There's long threads about this on Tundra forums and one guy built a kit from pre-2019 parts and did not report substantial temperature drops. At the cost of ~$1000

As I understand external coolers have little effect on converter temps and only effect pan temps which are marginal advantages.

Those concerned have switched to Amsoil Signature Series ATF...Rated to 300°

[panamerican]

Originally Posted by TravisH

Hi,


Those concerned have switched to Amsoil Signature Series ATF...Rated to 300°

I run Amsoil ATF as well and it is rated for much higher temps....HOWEVER, even Amsoil will tell you that the bands and such will start to warp much over 250 degrees, maybe even less.

I put in an aftermarket cooler, a pretty robust one at that and my trans temps on the flatlands were always between 150 and 175, compared to 175-185 pre cooler.

I did the same trip Gary W did between Cody and Yellowstone and my trans temps peaked at about 200, maybe 205 for a few mins. Without that cooler there would have been no doubt in my mind that I would have hit 230.

Also consider a deep transmission pan. Takes longer for overall fluid to heat and not a lot longer for it to cool. I believe it allows an extra gallon or two of trans fluid (depending on unit you select). It really is simple when you think about it....put two pots of water on a stove, one 3/4 full, the other 1/2 full and see which boils first. I also run a larger rear diff cover too (same reasoning), also with Amsoil fluid in it.

** One word of caution** Make sure you use the correct transmission fluid. More modern automatic transmissions need a different trans fluid that regular ATF. Friend has a new Ford Class C and he can't use the regular ATF. There is a significant difference, so make sure to check.

Bottom line, the cooler you can keep your trans, the better off you'll be. 200 or south is a good line to draw. I personally think 230 is too hot.

[4mer Paddler]

Originally Posted by WhereStream

There seem to be plenty here who tow with Ford's EcoBoost V6 and the 10-speed transmission, so perhaps someone can help me with this.

Okay. Not the same. I've got the GMC 2500HD 6.0 litre towing my 29' Excella. Last year September pulling up Steamboat in BC, temp hit 210 degrees and started smoking before I could pull over. Upshot, replaced filters and fluids in Whitehorse and continued in to Dawson. Two weeks later, back in Whitehorse with blown catalytic converter, most likely caused by tranny fluid blowin' out two weeks earlier. Expensive lesson. Watch the tranny temp.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Cooler is NOT better...engine & trans temps should remain in their operating range.
As I noted above the powertrain control module will go into limp mode if the transmission is overheating. 260-300* for GM.
If you really want to extend trans life flush the system and add a remote filter.
Some come with a gauge.

Explain how trans fluid caused a cat converter failure.
Rich mixture, unburned fuel,...yep

Bob
🇺🇸

Our '95 Burb

[Rootbeer2014]

Originally Posted by Daquenzer

That seems a bit hot.
1) Should always be in tow haul mode.
2) I agree with other post that there should be a higher capacity cooling system.

I tow a 28' with that same engine and it doesn't get near that warm. But I have a max tow haul set up which has a larger cooling component.

I agree

[JJTX]

Every vehicle and tow combo is different, folks.

If the dash/computer does not show an indicator of overheating, it's likely just fine.

However, if the OP believes things were over-heating somewhat, the best thing to do is to STOP somewhere and let it idle for a few minutes. --

DONT SHUT IT OFF!!

That should drop the temps a few degree's if it actually is getting too hot. Especially if theres still more pulling to go.

If your going down hill by that point or leveling off, keep going. Keep it moving, try not to strain the engine.

Modern vehicles now have variable grill louvers. I didnt even know that until I got my 2015 F150. The grill intake closes at-speed to help with aerodynamics.

[jaybauman]

Originally Posted by panamerican

...I also run a larger rear diff cover too (same reasoning)...

This may not be doing what you expect. The shape of differential covers are specifically engineered so that the distance between the inside of the cover and the ring gear provides maximum lubrication to the ring/pinion interface.

Whenever you change this distance (e.g. larger cover, flat cover, etc.) you change the fluid mechanics inside. For flat covers, the impact is lots of work done on the fluid which raises temperature--and the increased aeration greatly reduces lubricant functionality. For larger covers, the distance between the cover and the ring gear means you're not necessarily providing optimum quantity of lubricant (and cooling!) to the internal parts.

Check out the first 10 minutes or so of

this video

by Gale Banks. By no means am I endorsing his products...but I think these experiments show why you have to be extremely intentional when changing functionality of differential covers.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

Cooler is NOT better...engine & trans temps should remain in their operating range.
As I noted above the powertrain control module will go into limp mode if the transmission is overheating. 260-300* for GM. .

Bob

This.

Do not install additional cooling. The transmission is thermostatically controlled and sees more wear from cold starts.

This vehicle has the tow package, but all models have transmission cooling. The tow package has a larger engine cooling radiator.

Also, do not use aftermarket transmission fluid in this transmission.

The ZF that the 10R80 transmission in this vehicle was inspired by, used a 260 F alarm mode, with engine power reduced so the transmission would not be damaged. The same 10R transmission is being used in Mustangs and owners are seeing 250 F in track use. I think Bob is very close with his reference to 260 F being the warning level.

Ford lists up to 215 F as normal operating mode.

230 F is hot, but not alarming. I would ensure that tow haul mode is being used, or shift manually to see if that reduces the transmission temperature on climbs.

This transmission makes use of torque converter lockup mode to increase efficiency, and this reduces fluid temps. It maintains lock up during shifts in higher gears. The most likely reason for high trans temperatures is it operating in other than torque converter lockup mode, eg too high a gear. The Ecoboost has lots of torque at low revs. Use a few more revs.

Jeff

[WhereStream]

Interesting. Thanks for all the replies.

I was pulling in tow-haul mode. Always do.

My previous “truck” was a Suburban, 2004 vintage, which had a 4-speed automatic and no temperature gauge. If it every ran hot, I didn’t know. I added an external cooler for the transmission, out of general caution.

This transmission likes it warm. Just driving around town, not towing, it is 190-200 degrees.

[JJTX]

Originally Posted by WhereStream

Interesting. Thanks for all the replies.

I was pulling in tow-haul mode. Always do.

My previous “truck” was a Suburban, 2004 vintage, which had a 4-speed automatic and no temperature gauge. If it every ran hot, I didn’t know. I added an external cooler for the transmission, out of general caution.

This transmission likes it warm. Just driving around town, not towing, it is 190-200 degrees.

200-230 is probably normal range. I wouldn't worry about it unless you start seeing dash indicator lights.

As I said, nothing wrong with stopping at the crest of a hill and letting it idle a couple minutes. You'd prob see temps drop a few degree's by doing this.

You'll be fine I bet. I would not wait to 150K to do a transmission fluid change though. My truck will get a fluid change at around 65K. Maybe a bit before. But the 150K Ford says, is hogwash. Speaking of " numbers " posted by Ford.

[GetawA-S]

Wherestream,
I’ve been to Black Rock Mountain and am not surprised by your experience. Your transmission is fine. I award you a Gold Gumption Certificate for making the trip.

[AFTER TAXES]

install large aftermarket trans cooler......works like a champ !
maybe on side of frame rail

[ROBERT CROSS]

Ok...I give up

If you insist on installing an after market trans cooler, (most P/U's already have a cooler),make sure it has a by-pass thermostat, so the fluid reaches operating temp BEFORE being aftermarket cooled.
Much more important in colder climates, the transmission hates cold fluid.
Anyone else remember those long Winter shifts?

Bob
🇺🇸

[panamerican]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

Ok...I give up

If you insist on installing an after market trans cooler, (most P/U's already have a cooler),make sure it has a by-pass thermostat, so the fluid reaches operating temp BEFORE being aftermarket cooled.
Much more important in colder climates, the transmission hates cold fluid.
Anyone else remember those long Winter shifts?

Bob
🇺🇸

Originally Posted by jcl

Do not install additional cooling. The transmission is thermostatically controlled and sees more wear from cold starts. Also, do not use aftermarket transmission fluid in this transmission.

Straight off the Amsoil website (below). BTW, the notion of not using aftermarket ATF is ridiculous. Do you think the manufacturers manufacture their own oils? Nope, they spec it to oil providers. As long as the oils meet the manufacturer specs, there are ZERO issues using aftermarket oils of any type and nor will they void warranties.

Additionally, let me be clear, unless you live in temps lower than -30 and drive regularly in below -30, there is ZERO need to add cooler with a bypass...and honestly if you are going to drive in extreme cold, you are going to warm it up, unless you are foolish, fire it up and stomp on it. I will say that the factory installed trans cooler that the new cooler replaced DID NOT have a thermo bypass and that was OEM- GM. The pour point on Amsoil ATF is good to almost -64F!

My TV is not a daily driver, but it's used for hauling, traliering and bad northern climate. I have over 50k miles on Amsoil, deep pan and a trans cooler without thermo bypass....but I do have oil to water before it goes oil to air, but even then that transfer is minimal.

My prev tow vehicle was a daily driver and had the same as outlined above. 135k miles in northern climates, towing, etc. No issues at all


Your results can and will vary.




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Applications
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