Ford 10-speed ... how hot is too hot?

[panamerican]

Originally Posted by jaybauman

This may not be doing what you expect. The shape of differential covers are specifically engineered so that the distance between the inside of the cover and the ring gear provides maximum lubrication to the ring/pinion interface.

Yea, I saw that. I have been using the Mag-hytec for nearly 20 years on various vehicles. It's a very well designed product and I have combined about nearly 180k towing with both the deep trans pans and the rear diff covers. Banks is correct, you should choose carefully and Banks has a stellar reputation. Once you get the modding bug, it's hard to stop.

[DCPAS]

Originally Posted by panamerican

Straight off the Amsoil website (below). BTW, the notion of not using aftermarket ATF is ridiculous.

While I agree with you, that is not the right product for a 10 speed. The 10 speed transmissions use a lower viscosity fluid than that one. That said, Amsoil does make such a fluid.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by panamerican

Straight off the Amsoil website (below). BTW, the notion of not using aftermarket ATF is ridiculous. Do you think the manufacturers manufacture their own oils? Nope, they spec it to oil providers. As long as the oils meet the manufacturer specs, there are ZERO issues using aftermarket oils of any type and nor will they void warranties.

Additionally, let me be clear, unless you live in temps lower than -30 and drive regularly in below -30, there is ZERO need to add cooler with a bypass...and honestly if you are going to drive in extreme cold, you are going to warm it up, unless you are foolish, fire it up and stomp on it. I will say that the factory installed trans cooler that the new cooler replaced DID NOT have a thermo bypass and that was OEM- GM. The pour point on Amsoil ATF is good to almost -64F!

My TV is not a daily driver, but it's used for hauling, traliering and bad northern climate. I have over 50k miles on Amsoil, deep pan and a trans cooler without thermo bypass....but I do have oil to water before it goes oil to air, but even then that transfer is minimal.

My prev tow vehicle was a daily driver and had the same as outlined above. 135k miles in northern climates, towing, etc. No issues at all


Your results can and will vary.




Cold-Temperature Fluidity
Cold, thick automatic transmission fluid lengthens shift times and reduces fuel economy. Signature Series Synthetic ATF is wax-free and delivers extraordinary cold-flow properties. It helps improve shift response, energy efficiency and warm-up times.

Applications
AMSOIL Signature Series Multi-Vehicle Synthetic ATF is recommended for transmissions, hydraulics, power steering systems and other applications that require any of the following specifications:

Allison C-4, TES-389; BMW 7045E, 8072B, LA 2634, LT 71141; Chrysler ATF+4*, MOPAR* ASRC, 68089195AA, 68049954AA; Ford MERCON*, MERCON* V, ESP-M2C166-H, FNR5, M2C924-A, XL-12; GM DEXRON* II, DEXRON* III, AutoTrak II; Honda/Acura ATF-Z1; Hyundai/Kia SP-II, SP-III, Red-1; IDEMITSU K17; JASO 1A; JWS 3309,3314, 3317; MAN 339 Type V-1, 339 Type V-2, 339 Type Z-1, 339 Type Z-2, 339 Type Z-3, 339F; Mazda ATF-M III, ATF-MV, F-1; Mercedes Benz 236.1,236.2,236.3,236.5,236.6,236.7,236.9,236.1,23 6.11,236.81, 236.91; Mitsubishi SP-II, SP-III, ATF-J2; Nissan Matic-D, Matic-J, Matic-K, 402; SAAB 3309; Shell 3403, LA 2634; Subaru ATF, ATF-HP; Suzuki 3314, 3317; Texaco ETL-7045E, ETL-8072B, N402; Toyota Type T, T-II, T-III, T-IV; Voith 55.6335, 55.6336; Volvo 97340, 97341; VW/Audi G 052 162, G 052 990, G 055 025; ZF TE-ML 03D, 04D, 05L,9, 11A, 11B, 14A, 14B, 14C, 16L, 16M, 17C, 20B, 20C, 21L.

Believe what you like...you ARE the only one that is able to decide what you should do.
POI...I use Amsoil exclusively, but still don't consider their ad verbosity as Gospel

Disclaimer....I know nothing.
My progression…GM Knuckle Buster, Grease Monkey, Mechanic, Auto Technician, Computer Assisted Parts Changer to an Associate with dirty hands and a desk.

Bob
🇺🇸

[jcl]

Originally Posted by panamerican

Straight off the Amsoil website (below). BTW, the notion of not using aftermarket ATF is ridiculous. Do you think the manufacturers manufacture their own oils? Nope, they spec it to oil providers. As long as the oils meet the manufacturer specs, there are ZERO issues using aftermarket oils of any type and nor will they void warranties.

Additionally, let me be clear, unless you live in temps lower than -30 and drive regularly in below -30, there is ZERO need to add cooler with a bypass...and honestly if you are going to drive in extreme cold, you are going to warm it up, unless you are foolish, fire it up and stomp on it. I will say that the factory installed trans cooler that the new cooler replaced DID NOT have a thermo bypass and that was OEM- GM. The pour point on Amsoil ATF is good to almost -64F!

My TV is not a daily driver, but it's used for hauling, traliering and bad northern climate. I have over 50k miles on Amsoil, deep pan and a trans cooler without thermo bypass....but I do have oil to water before it goes oil to air, but even then that transfer is minimal.

My prev tow vehicle was a daily driver and had the same as outlined above. 135k miles in northern climates, towing, etc. No issues at all

Your results can and will vary.

Cold-Temperature Fluidity
Cold, thick automatic transmission fluid lengthens shift times and reduces fuel economy. Signature Series Synthetic ATF is wax-free and delivers extraordinary cold-flow properties. It helps improve shift response, energy efficiency and warm-up times.

Applications
AMSOIL Signature Series Multi-Vehicle Synthetic ATF is recommended for transmissions, hydraulics, power steering systems and other applications that require any of the following specifications:

Allison C-4, TES-389; BMW 7045E, 8072B, LA 2634, LT 71141; Chrysler ATF+4*, MOPAR* ASRC, 68089195AA, 68049954AA; Ford MERCON*, MERCON* V, ESP-M2C166-H, FNR5, M2C924-A, XL-12; GM DEXRON* II, DEXRON* III, AutoTrak II; Honda/Acura ATF-Z1; Hyundai/Kia SP-II, SP-III, Red-1; IDEMITSU K17; JASO 1A; JWS 3309,3314, 3317; MAN 339 Type V-1, 339 Type V-2, 339 Type Z-1, 339 Type Z-2, 339 Type Z-3, 339F; Mazda ATF-M III, ATF-MV, F-1; Mercedes Benz 236.1,236.2,236.3,236.5,236.6,236.7,236.9,236.1,23 6.11,236.81, 236.91; Mitsubishi SP-II, SP-III, ATF-J2; Nissan Matic-D, Matic-J, Matic-K, 402; SAAB 3309; Shell 3403, LA 2634; Subaru ATF, ATF-HP; Suzuki 3314, 3317; Texaco ETL-7045E, ETL-8072B, N402; Toyota Type T, T-II, T-III, T-IV; Voith 55.6335, 55.6336; Volvo 97340, 97341; VW/Audi G 052 162, G 052 990, G 055 025; ZF TE-ML 03D, 04D, 05L,9, 11A, 11B, 14A, 14B, 14C, 16L, 16M, 17C, 20B, 20C, 21L.

Your advice is ill informed. Are your referenced vehicles using the new Ford-developed joint venture 10 speed?

We are specifically discussing a Ford 10R80 transmission. It was developed to use a new design of low viscosity ATF. Your Amsoil reference above does not list the new Mercon ULV spec. Critically, it doesn’t claim that Amsoil meets any of the listed specs either, because Amsoil doesn’t believe in meeting manufacturer’s specs. They sell jobber, or will-fit fluids, that in Amsoil’s own words, are “recommended by Amsoil for vehicles that require those specs.” Those words aren’t an accident. They are the result of court action. Many are taken in by this approach; some get it and are fine with it. If you are using their products on older, lower tech applications, you very well may be fine.

I would use a fluid from any reputable fluid supplier that is certified to meet the manufacturer’s requirements. I checked the Amsoil website and saw no such fluid, even giving them a temporary pass on the fluid not actually meeting the spec.

As to coolers, my ZF (same design philosophy as the 10R) used a fluid to fluid heat exchanger. It used engine heat to warm the transmission fluid on a cold start. The transmission had a cold shift program that was designed to work with cold fluid. Overcooling with add on coolers kept the transmission in cold shift mode for extended periods of time. I guess if you were really serious you could reprogram the transmission and engine control computer. (Don’t try and do that)

Seriously, we are discussing a nearly new vehicle under warranty. If you want to hot rod it you are probably starting with the wrong vehicle.

[DCPAS]

Originally Posted by jcl

They sell jobber, or will-fit fluids, that in Amsoil’s own words, are “recommended by Amsoil for vehicles that require those specs.” Those words aren’t an accident. They are the result of court action.

Well, I stand corrected in saying they had such a fluid. Thanks for this; I did not know.

[jcl]

Additional info: I am in Canada, and use .ca sites. Amsoil in the US have a better web site and list a fluid for the 10R transmission, not the one listed above, although they don’t claim to meet the Ford spec with it.

Amsoil also says on their website that their ULV Mercon fluid is also their LV Mercon fluid. Ford says the two specs are mutually exclusive. It comes down to who to believe, the team that developed the transmission or someone else.

[WhereStream]

Originally Posted by GetawA-S

Wherestream,
I’ve been to Black Rock Mountain and am not surprised by your experience. Your transmission is fine. I award you a Gold Gumption Certificate for making the trip.

It was quite the climb!

Interesting park, in that it was built by the mighty Civilian Conservation Corps (reverent pause) ... another of CCC's many gifts to Georgia.

Road is narrow and twisty. The CCC had no idea people would be pulling trailers up there. Camping at Black Rock Mountain is like visiting a time machine.

[GSP9]

I have a 3.5 ecoboost with the 10 speed. One time last summer when it was pretty hot out, mine got up around 210-215 while towing. Can’t remember the exact temp but it made me wonder how hot is too hot. I did a little research online and in some Ford forums and remember reading anything less than 230 is ok. 230 and above you’re going to want to keep an eye on it. Wish I had a link as to where I read that but I just put that 230 in the back of my head as a guide for future reference.

[rsweisner]

I largely agree with JCL. My 2 cents from my experience with the same transmission in my 2019 Ford Ranger. I had Ford change the tranny fluid at the 50k mile mark with at least half of that towing my BCX. Multiple trips through the Rockies, Tetons, Yellowstone, Blue Ridge Mountains, etc. Tech told me the fluid wasn’t burnt but was ready for a change and the 50k interval was about right for how I use my Ranger. Daily driver, off road exploring, larger than stock tires, and towing. The Ranger delivers max torque at 3k RPMs while easily pulling in tow mode. I personally wouldn’t change a thing other than my tranny maintenance interval. Spend the $200 at a Ford dealership. No hassle and it will be done right without the guesswork.

[SeaLevel]

Originally Posted by WhereStream

It was quite the climb!

Interesting park, in that it was built by the mighty Civilian Conservation Corps (reverent pause) ... another of CCC's many gifts to Georgia.

Road is narrow and twisty. The CCC had no idea people would be pulling trailers up there. Camping at Black Rock Mountain is like visiting a time machine.

We are heading there tomorrow. I'm looking forward to the drive, and I will report back on the transmission temperature etc., although this will be with a 2020 Silverado 1500 6.2L 10-speed with the max trailering package, and we are pulling a 25' AS.

[panamerican]

No I do not believe that normal Amsoil ATF will work in a Ford transmission, however, if there is a reader out there savvy enough to the task, the assumption is that they will do their own research.

Amsoil has a specific oil for the newer transmissions, because you are all right, normal ATF cannot be used in newer number of transmissions. If you also read my post I said you need to make sure the oil you put in meets man spec, I posted the spec for standard ATF as that is what I use to simply show that 3rd party oil vendors meet manufacs spec, I was not suggesting a person with a new vehicle use the oil I shared and did not implicitly suggest they do.... however one doing their due diligence can easily find their specific application and match that to the oil vendor of their choice.

My overall general comments suggested:

1) Non OEM oil is fine for new or not new as the auto manufacs don't produce their own oil
2) Whatever you put in **MUST** meet manufac specs
3) You can safely put in a trans cooler or upgrade with no ill effects unless your vehicle is used in extreme cold conditions (meaning colder than -30F on a reg basis)*

* based on what the specs of your oil can handle...my post suggested the trans fluid I use has a pour point to nearly -64F.


Your mileage and exp may and will vary. No one here is talking hot rodding.


What a tough crowd...

[AFTER TAXES]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

Ok...I give up

If you insist on installing an after market trans cooler, (most P/U's already have a cooler),make sure it has a by-pass thermostat, so the fluid reaches operating temp BEFORE being aftermarket cooled.
Much more important in colder climates, the transmission hates cold fluid.
Anyone else remember those long Winter shifts?

Bob
����

they do.......in front on radiator and fluild runs in the radiator.
the one we use on all of our classic cars - trucks, is about 11x11''
in size, nice big fan. The grills on older cars are small. trans temp. runs 180-200

[GettinAway]

Originally Posted by TravisH

Hi,

Modern transmission run a LOT hotter! I used to be concerned with 180°!

New 2019+ Tundras WITH tow package have NO ATF cooler! A small heat exchanger and they run ~220°++ all day long! I gathered transmission wear is greater from low temperatures so they are more concerned with getting up to temp. If you think about it this makes sense as most trips are not long enough to get temps high enough quickly enough...

There's long threads about this on Tundra forums and one guy built a kit from pre-2019 parts and did not report substantial temperature drops. At the cost of ~$1000
Those concerned have switched to Amsoil Signature Series ATF...Rated to 300°

Off topic.. My 2012 Tundra has the trans oil temp gauge, but from what I’ve read it just a warning light pretending to be a temp gauge. We went over lots of passes last month in WY, and the gauge was dead center the whole time. Never moved. I don’t have a lot of faith in it’s accuracy.