Badlands / Glacier NP Towing ???

[dlkershaw]

Good morning: A travel / towing question:?

22FB Bambi 3,800 LBS dry...2014: Jeep GC 6cyl, 300 HP / 260 ft LBS torque / 8 speed Trans, electronic brake controller.
We are planning a trip to the Badlands and Glacier NP for summer 2018, from South Jersey. We have traveled extensively through the Catskills, Adirondacks and Appalachians, no problems with ups or downs.......no overheating of the trans or engine ( gauge for both)

Can the GC handle the load of the western trip.....not sure of % of inclines or altitude.. Looking at the GC / 8cyl Hemi, ( 360 HP / 390 Ft Lbs torque) more HP and torque but a big price tag. I am not a truck guy..... not interested in a diesel ( a different thread, for another day !
I appreciate any advice / Thanks to all / always helpful....

[Mollysdad]

IMO, as long as you're happy with the performance, and the brakes now, you'll be fine.
I'd avoid the mountain passes in Colorado and stick to the northern rockies which aren't quite so dramatic.

People buy vehicles to tow a smaller trailer over a mountain pass, and then spend 0.001% of the time crossing the mountains. 0.999% of the time it's a daily driver. Take your time, go at a reduced speed in the mountains and soon, the pass will be behind you.

In GNP you won't be towing the trailer. (rules) Outside the park it's flat. The area around Rapid City and the badlands isn't mountainous.

This forum is loaded with folks (god bless them) that have a lot of disposable income, so buying a $80K truck to tow their Airstream is just common sense...to them.

I dream of the day I return to GNP, the most beautiful place in America. But don't tell anyone, I want it to remain unspoiled.

[Rpatrick16]

I agree with the previous poster in that if you've been happy with what you all ready have you should be good to go. I have that same trailer and initally pulled it with a 2016 For Explorer with a similar motor to yours..not eco boost. Living here in the norther rockies you should have no problems with our mountain passes. Yes, they are steep but taking your time you will be fine.

We pulled our 22FB up to Mt Rushmore last fall and were able to park it on top of the mountain ($12 fee see attached photo).

The drive from the Rapid City area will take you northwest into Montana and that is mostly flat. Most of eastern Montana is prairie until you get to the Livingston area...there you will encounter the mountains.

Once you are at GNP all the campgrounds are located close to the entrances of the park or just outside of it. There's an excellent KOA at west Glacier that I can highly recommend. It's about a mile and a half from the western gate.

If you are planning your visit after the first of the July you will encounter large crowds....so plan early. The major attraction inside of GNP is the "Going to the Sun" road which generally opens around the first of July. I would suggest you check out the GNP Facebook page as it will give you the latest info.

I live just 150 miles south of GNP and 240 miles north of Yellowstone. If you want more info send me a PM. I'll be happy to share more info.

Have fun and enjoy Montana....it's a wonderful place to live!

[Gearheart]

The GC has enough power to tow your rig. Keep it below 60 MPH for stability. At higher speeds there is a tendency for the trailer to start to sway. It's all ok until it isn't. Once the tail is trying to wag the dog things can go south in a hurry. I have a F150 super crew and we almost lost it because some idiot caused us to take evasive action. Thankfully DW had slowed down already (saw it coming)and the resulting sway was not enough to put us into the ditch. When tail starts to wag the dog a big dog is a good thing.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

One of the interesting factoids: Grade percentage wise, the east has some pretty crazy stuff. We don't have it going on for quite the miles and miles as out west. You also don't have the pull up hill at 20% reduced engine output (like you would going over a nutty high altitude pass).

The bigger question is: how fast do you want to go? If you run around in the high mountains all the time, going slow - not so much. For a one time trip, I don't see the problem. Watch temperatures carefully and be prepared to pull over if needed.

As mentioned above, as long as you stick to the simple route, you don't hit much that is nutty at all. The PA turnpike likely worse (in many ways ...) than what you see in Montana If you decide on a side trip once you are out there - yes, you may be going a bit slow ... Now that we're here how about gong to ... is a *very* common thing ... I have data on this

Bob

[Len n Jeanne]

The others have given you good advice. You cannot tow a trailer over Going-To-The-Sun road, so either drop it at your campsite, or at one of the parking lots in the park set up for that purpose. The drive is well worth it but it is very popular, so if you cannot get up to Logan Pass early in the day, you might find the parking lot up there completely full. Glacier is one very popular park, so the early bird gets the parking spot.

The park has free and convenient shuttles, but we heard from another member this summer that there were long waiting lines for them. A fun but not free alternative might be to book seats on one of the concession's red touring cars.

We normally get to Glacier about once a year, but didn't this year due to the forest fire smoke. Our favourite spots are on the northwest side: Bowman and Kintla Lakes. I wouldn't haul the AS up there but they make a nice day's outing. The long bumpy road keeps out a lot of the front-country tourists.

[Rivet Rocket]

Just returned from Black Hills/Bad Lands, 3,000+ miles from Michigan. Have a '17 22FB pulled by a '17 Hyundai Santa Fe. Zero issues, max altitude was 7,000+ ft., 8% grades. Towed fine at 63 MPH, slower going up and down elevations. You should be fine, just take your time and use caution.

[dlkershaw]

Thanks to all for your responses, very helpful, Rpatrick16, I appreciate the great photo, very encouraging, .... looks like our setup will work just fine. The route information and ideas will help plan our trip. Road to the Sun is a must for us......Safe travels to all !

[Mollysdad]

Things I learned as a flatlander out west.
1. Get gas when you get to half a tank. I scared myself many a time thinking I'd just go to the next exit only to discover it's 75 miles away.
2. Custer State Park just south of Mt. Rushmore is an undiscovered gem.
3. Don't be afraid to go slow both up and down mountain passes. You won't be alone, and the roads are built to accommodate a passing lane.
4. The area on the west side of GNP is totally beautiful. So many small lakes and scenic areas. On the east side, not so much.

[Rpatrick16]

Originally Posted by Len n Jeanne

The others have given you good advice. You cannot tow a trailer over Going-To-The-Sun road, so either drop it at your campsite, or at one of the parking lots in the park set up for that purpose. The drive is well worth it but it is very popular, so if you cannot get up to Logan Pass early in the day, you might find the parking lot up there completely full. Glacier is one very popular park, so the early bird gets the parking spot.

The park has free and convenient shuttles, but we heard from another member this summer that there were long waiting lines for them. A fun but not free alternative might be to book seats on one of the concession's red touring cars.

We normally get to Glacier about once a year, but didn't this year due to the forest fire smoke. Our favourite spots are on the northwest side: Bowman and Kintla Lakes. I wouldn't haul the AS up there but they make a nice day's outing. The long bumpy road keeps out a lot of the front-country tourists.

Regarding your favorite spots....you're "spot on". Bowman has got to be one of the most beautiful spots "on earth". And, as you've stated attempting to pull a trailer there is a "very bad idea" as there is no way it can be done safely.

I was at both of those lakes last week and meeting on coming traffic requires one or both vehicles to have to literally scrape the bushes on both sides of the road.

[demijac]

If you can handle the steep grades back East, the West will be a piece of cake. You will find that in general, when compared to the mountains back East, the mountain routes out West will feature longer but less steep climbs. The worst we've ever encountered out West was a seven mile 9% descent coming out of Death Valley headed towards Bishop. Not sure about the Bad Lands. Glacier has a total rig length restriction (approx 25 ft for TV + trailer) on the Going-to-the-Sun Road and there were a few sections of that road that were more like 1 1/2 lanes wide instead of two lanes wide so that restriction definitely makes sense on a crowded road.

Hope this helps.

[Johndews]

We were introduced to a new tool by a neighbor at an RV park in Custer, SD this Summer that might be helpful to others. It is a Mountain Driving Atlas (MountainDriving.com). It is available by Region. We bought the Western States for our trip. The atlas is available in printed form and online. The online version downloads a data base, so internet connectivity is not necessary to use it.

Each state has its on atlas with all roads delineated. Every pass or hazardous area is
denoted with a yellow triangle. Cross ref the triangle to a description page that describes in plenty of detail the location, duration and grade of every pass. It includes the number and location of sharp, low-speed curves and any other issue that might create a towing challenge. Best $17 we've spent in our now 2 years of RVing.

[gypsydad]

I agree with others on this thread, that you should be fine for the 22'Sport with your TV. We towed a 25' for few years with a Tahoe and it worked out ok for our needs at the time.

Glacier is fantastic place to visit, but timing is key now days.... Earlier in the year before school is out or after September when school starts again the park is less crowded, for sure. We live close in summer time and visit 4-5 times each year. The last 2 years have been crazy, if you want to stay in the park. Complicating things, several of the campgrounds now require reservations in all or part of the campgrounds. You can check out the flow, make reservcations ahead, and generally see when the "first come/first serve" camp sites are filling up on this site before going to get an idea of how traffic is. https://www.nps.gov/glac/planyourvisit/camping.htm
Complicating the overcrowding, many of the larger RV camp sites are taken by 1 or 2 people tent camping while I see the tent camping areas half full.

There are several campgrounds outside the park also, but they can get costly. You can drive around the park from East Glacier to West Glacier using HWY 2, which is a good road. The Going to the Sun highway has 21' total length restriction and it is VERY crowded; when you go, go early on this one--hikers get up there at sunrise around 5-6am and the parking lot does fill early.

Bowman lake is about an hours drive from West Glacier area, even though less than 40 miles. It is pretty but it is not recommended to bring a trailer up there, let alone an AS. Last 5 miles or so are very bumpy and narrow road.... Nice day trip while staying in West Glacier area, and the general store/bakery in Polebridge is a must stop for huckleberry breakfast rolls or macaroons on the way!

Glacier has several fantastic lakes. Here is Bowman (note smoke from fire this year was bad); Other pics are of Swift Currant kayaking, and St. Marys...before fires. Hope you enjoy your trip!

[dcasr]

Originally Posted by dlkershaw

Good morning: A travel / towing question:?

22FB Bambi 3,800 LBS dry...2014: Jeep GC 6cyl, 300 HP / 260 ft LBS torque / 8 speed Trans, electronic brake controller.
We are planning a trip to the Badlands and Glacier NP for summer 2018, from South Jersey. We have traveled extensively through the Catskills, Adirondacks and Appalachians, no problems with ups or downs.......no overheating of the trans or engine ( gauge for both)

Can the GC handle the load of the western trip.....not sure of % of inclines or altitude.. Looking at the GC / 8cyl Hemi, ( 360 HP / 390 Ft Lbs torque) more HP and torque but a big price tag. I am not a truck guy..... not interested in a diesel ( a different thread, for another day !
I appreciate any advice / Thanks to all / always helpful....

___________________
If you are not in a hurry on the grades, you'll do fine. In SD from Wall to Rapid City there are some grades going down into river bottoms and up, just take your time. In GNP the Marias Pass Hwy 89, is an easy pass from the East side over to the West side. If you want to go North to the Many Glacier and St. Mary areas, which are fairly spectacular, you should go North at Browning using Hwy 464 to Babb. Road into Many Glacier flat but very bumpy, so go slow (10 mph) when you see rough spots coming. If you are going South from Babb on Why 89 to St. Mary, you can go into the park and camp at Rising Sun, and drive the Sun Road unhooked.

From St. Mary South on Why 89 to East Glacier there are some fairly steep grades, not long, but they will put you in a lower gear, and the road overall is so scenic and curvy that it isn't conducive to speeding anyway. Also usually some construction, as the winters are hard on the roads.

If you go early in June as we did, expect some nights to be in the low 40s, so test out your furnace first. If you are inside the park, there aren't hookups so you'll need solar or a generator as you can go through a battery pretty fast (1 day or less). Weather near perfect around July 1-August 15 and thats when 10 million other people want to come. Campgrounds on the West side are at at lower elevation than the East side, and more densely forested.

With your short wheelbase you should seriously consider the issue of sway, since the winds do blow across the prairie and the 18 wheelers really roll when they hit the 80 mph stretches in SD, WY and MT and you will be going MUCH slower (I hope). If you don't have a Hensely or ProPride hitch and don't want to get one, or don't have a hitch that has sway control built into it like some do, then do buy a friction sway control, and use it. Also carry a trailer spare tire, it is a very long way between places to buy tires and you don't want to be driving on 3 tires for 70 miles or more at 35 mph. I carry two spares for my 29' Excella because I have run over something that took out both of my trailer tires on one side.

Enjoy God's special spectacular country.

[Len n Jeanne]

Originally Posted by Rpatrick16

Regarding your favorite spots....you're "spot on". Bowman has got to be one of the most beautiful spots "on earth". And, as you've stated attempting to pull a trailer there is a "very bad idea" as there is no way it can be done safely.

I was at both of those lakes last week and meeting on coming traffic requires one or both vehicles to have to literally scrape the bushes on both sides of the road.

Hey, thanks. I might mention that these lakes are super places for paddlers. We actually did a an overnight canoe trip once, leaving the Bambi at home, on Kintla Lake. We slept in the back of our truck at the drive-in Kintla Lake CG, and then paddled to the hike-in/paddle-in CG at the head of the lake, which took just a few hours. We tent-camped there for two nights, doing a day hike to upper Kintla Lake on our in-between day.

For folks unused to paddling in the mountains, just a word of caution that the winds can be super strong and pick up really fast, even on small lakes, and unpredictable due to up- and down-drafts and convectional thunder storms. We've gotten caught by monster waves--thankfully without capsizing. We always hug the shore. The big lakes at Glacier-- McDonald and St. Mary-- are fine when calm but it's best to try for early in the morning.

The Two-Medicine and Many-Glacier areas are beautiful, with crowds intermediate between the busy Going-to-the-Sun and the Bowman-Kintla area.

But wow. So beautiful. Super photos, Gypsydad!

Normally we'd put in a plug for a side trip to Waterton Lakes Provincial Park on the Canadian side of Glacier, but apparently they closed early for the season due to forest fire danger.

[Wayne&Sam]

We tow our 25' with a Durango Hemi. We go out west almost every year. We've never had a problem with grades.

BTW, if you want to see steep grades, try the Gaspe Peninsula. Short but steep.

[Mollysdad]

BTW, If you're camping on the west side of GNP, like in Kalispel or Whitefish, I'd go up the western side of the park. If you go up the east side to St. Mary's, you won't be able to take the "Going To The Sun" road to get to the west side and there are no shortcuts.

We took I-90 to Missoula, then 93 along Flathead lake. It's beautiful.

[WestieHouse]

I tow our 23 FB FC with a 2014 Jeep GC EcoDiesel which has the same towing specs as the 2014 hemi (7200 lbs /720 tongue wt). I agree with Mollysdad except Crater Lake is my favorite place.

We have over 35,000 miles in all the major North American mountains. We just finished much of the Blue Ridge Parkway and have been through north and south Rockies several times, the Siskeyous, Cascades, Canadian Rockies, the Grapevine in Southern Cal, Cape Breton, and the Adirondacks.

Our only reservation is the payload of the Jeep GC. But if you can live with that you won't get a more economical (16.5 mpg overall) or comfortable towing experience.

We love that we can go anywhere after unhitching and that our overall length is just under 40 feet. There are few places we cannot travel easily.

[WestieHouse]

Do be carefull about your route through Custer SP - it is gorgeous and undiscovered (hike Harney Peak - the tallest peak between the Rockies and Pyrenees). But there is at least one very narrow and short tunnel to be aware of in the park. The wild donkeys and mountain goats are special wildlife to observe.

[WestieHouse]

The Jeep GC 8 speed transmission stays cool on all our trips (wr have the factory installed tow package). The oil temp can creep up, but we have never had to stop to allow cooling, though I do turn off the AC if the ambient temp is above 75 degrees. We have 93,000+ miles on original and recently inspected brakes (35+k towing our AS) and never a problem on descrnding grades up to 8% (yesterday in NC for 6 miles between Grayson Highlands SP in VA and Elkin NC). I recently had a panic stop on I-65 in Indiana (my first while towing) between two 18 wheelers. The one behind me swerved into the median to avoid rear ending me. Our rig stayed perfectly aligned and no jack knifing or swerving. I didn't have time to use the manual trailer braking on our Produgy 3 controller, but it worked perfectly nevertheless. I do have a very well tuned WD and anti-sway hitch and carefully use a CAT scale at the start of every trip. I check tire air pressures every travel day and torque lug nuts at least weekly when traveling,