At what fuel price do you stop RV'ing?

[drairstream]

I think the only people it might affect are folks who didn’t pay cash.
Borrowing for a vacation vehicle wouldn’t seem to indicate adequate funding in the first place

[uncle_bob]

Hi

I think that if you dig into the numbers, folks who truly pay cash for cars, trucks, RV's, second homes and boats are very much in the minority. We live in a world where folks finance things .... In some cases it's based on finance rates being below what they think market returns will be. There are lots of reasons ....

Bob

[gator.bigfoot]

Well pretty soon you can only buy hybrids and then after that EVs. So perhaps you should be thinking what can I tow with an EV. ICE vehicles will soon be a memory. Europe is already on this road. They are ahead of us because of the EU. But the WEF will dictate it for the entire world. Don't forget who is pushing this agenda. It's just a matter of time.

[tjdonahoe]

Originally Posted by brick1

I find it hard to be concerned over the cost of camping while Ukraine is under attack from Russia. My thoughts and prayers for the people impacted.

Exactly…..

[tjdonahoe]

Originally Posted by gator.bigfoot

Well pretty soon you can only buy hybrids and then after that EVs. So perhaps you should be thinking what can I tow with an EV. ICE vehicles will soon be a memory. Europe is already on this road. They are ahead of us because of the EU. But the WEF will dictate it for the entire world. Don't forget who is pushing this agenda. It's just a matter of time.

Yea…my grandfather went from horses to a model T ford in 1917…

[mpsgolf]

An upcoming trip for us is S Utah. That would be around 3000 mi total for us. That takes around 250 gal at 12mpg.

The difference between $4 gas ($1000) and $2 gas ($500) is $500. Significant? Yes! Stop me from going? Not at $4. At some has price point though possibly; $6 gas makes it a $1000 higher trip.

[tjdonahoe]

Originally Posted by gettysburg

We will be camping the same amount this year. The economy keeps getting scarier by the day, so we're gonna enjoy ourselves whether we have to pay $6 or $8 for a gallon of gas. Sadly, $6 gas will be the least of our worries this summer. Enjoy your journey

Scared economy?…wow people are lined up to pay for 3.80$ gas and go inside the mini mart and pay $2.50 for a 20oz cold drink…I paid $5 for 16 oz glass of bud lite…and worry about $4.00 gas..lol..

[PC Conner]

Originally Posted by Big Red1

We were in Death Valley about a month ago and paid $6.70 for gas at the only station down there. Of course you look at the price and what choice do you have. We will probably still plan on using our Airstream and bite the bullet on the fuel costs although $7/gallon might give us pause. Big Red1

An answer to high fuel prices in the DVNP: only buy enough fuel to get you back to competitive area, Pahrump, NV. While the socialists don't like competitive capitalism, it is a wonderful thing. America First!

[richard5933]

Originally Posted by gator.bigfoot

Well pretty soon you can only buy hybrids and then after that EVs. So perhaps you should be thinking what can I tow with an EV. ICE vehicles will soon be a memory. Europe is already on this road. They are ahead of us because of the EU. But the WEF will dictate it for the entire world. Don't forget who is pushing this agenda. It's just a matter of time.

Or, maybe not.

Read an article this week talking about how Germany is looking at pushing back its deadline for stopping production/sales of ICE engines.

Lots of ducks to get lined up with all this, and no matter how many mandates there may be if the infrastructure is not ready the mandates will be only words on paper.

[PB_NB]

Today we hit about $185 per litre. If I use 3.7l per gallon we would be at $6.85 per US gallon. They with a conversion to USD we would be around $5.40USD/US gal.

We might see $2.00 per litre in the near future or getting close to $6 USD/US gal.

Our prices in Metro Vancouver have traditionally been higher than most places but now it seems like any ceiling on prices is coming off.

Time to plug the electric car in!

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by PB_NB

Today we hit about $185 per litre. .......!

Hi

Ok, I'd have to say that $185 ( US or Canadian) *is* enough to stop me from getting out and about. Liters or gallons, it doesn't matter. That's just to much. Time to hunker down and just order everything via Amazon Prime ....

Bob

[PB_NB]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

Ok, I'd have to say that $185 ( US or Canadian) *is* enough to stop me from getting out and about. Liters or gallons, it doesn't matter. That's just to much. Time to hunker down and just order everything via Amazon Prime ....

Bob

Damn decimal! I glad you figured it out

[Daquenzer]

Originally Posted by gator.bigfoot

Well pretty soon you can only buy hybrids and then after that EVs. So perhaps you should be thinking what can I tow with an EV. ICE vehicles will soon be a memory. Europe is already on this road. They are ahead of us because of the EU. But the WEF will dictate it for the entire world. Don't forget who is pushing this agenda. It's just a matter of time.

Not for a long time yet. Europe is a completely different kind of market than the U.S. Hybrid vehicles are outpacing BEV sales in the U.S. by considerable amounts. My guess is we will see more hybrid sales where one can travel back and forth to work etc using electric only, but then have the ICE for longer trips.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by Daquenzer

Not for a long time yet. Europe is a completely different kind of market than the U.S. Hybrid vehicles are outpacing BEV sales in the U.S. by considerable amounts. My guess is we will see more hybrid sales where one can travel back and forth to work etc using electric only, but then have the ICE for longer trips.

It is important to distinguish between fossil fuel vehicles that have a hybrid feature to improve mileage (but which are not electric vehicles) and plug in hybrids, which can be an EV for short trips and use the ICE engine for longer trips. The figures being promoted showing the growth in hybrids often confuse these two categories. If a hybrid can't be plugged in to charge, it is no more an EV than is an ICE vehicle with a 12V battery for starting.

Looking at the US sales results for 2021, hybrids outpaced EVs, as you noted, but only the non plug in hybrids. Plug in hybrids came third. See the first graphic. Source here: https://insideevs.com/news/566900/us...-sales-2021q4/

It can be challenging to predict trends based on smaller sales results, as it is early in the change over. California has almost 40% of the US EV sales, and while the results aren't the same in other states yet, it is a better basis for forecasting. The California data can be used to gain some insight on what happens as the market matures. See the second graphic with California results for hybrids, plug in hybrids, and BEVs. Plug ins (hybrid and pure BEV) outdid non plug in hybrids.

Source here: https://insideevs.com/news/566362/ca...ar-sales-2021/

Add to this that as noted above, ICE engines have a sunset date. That doesn't bode well for the longer term success of hybrid vehicle sales.

[airdreamers]

Can't believe how quickly people react to the movement in the price of gas etc. For the moment travel less, less gas. Remember how the high prices affected us before. Sell, why? Give it time don't overreact.

[richard5933]

Originally Posted by jcl

...Add to this that as noted above, ICE engines have a sunset date. That doesn't bode well for the longer term success of hybrid vehicle sales.

They have a sunset, but as we see happening in Germany right now those sunset dates are still rather flexible. Goal setting is a good thing, but sometimes reality gets in the way.

No politician who wants to keep his/her job will pull the plug on ICE vehicles (yes, pun intended) if they aren't certain a viable alternative exists. It's all well and good to have sunset dates, but if those dates come around and things aren't in place for people to get around like they need to lots of politicians are going to be packing. I'd suspect in some countries something like this could lead to more widespread instability, so I'm guessing that they'll be watching those sunset dates carefully and adjusting as needed.

[gator.bigfoot]

Originally Posted by richard5933

They have a sunset, but as we see happening in Germany right now those sunset dates are still rather flexible. Goal setting is a good thing, but sometimes reality gets in the way.

No politician who wants to keep his/her job will pull the plug on ICE vehicles (yes, pun intended) if they aren't certain a viable alternative exists. It's all well and good to have sunset dates, but if those dates come around and things aren't in place for people to get around like they need to lots of politicians are going to be packing. I'd suspect in some countries something like this could lead to more widespread instability, so I'm guessing that they'll be watching those sunset dates carefully and adjusting as needed.

Well I hope you can get enough people to think the way you do. With the MSM moving people's minds in the other direction good luck.

I agree that EVs aren't ready. And there is not enough lithium or charging stations. And the heck wants to wait 35 minutes charging their cars. But in the meantime we are making a ton of money on them. The car companies keep coming to us for more batteries and as the technology keeps changing some of them don't even make it to production. I was over in the UK working with a prestigious UK manufacturer of luxury sports cars and they canceled the BEV battery right after we worked on it for the last 2 years. They kept the PHEV but not the BEV. Now we're quoting on the next generation of the BEV. A billion dollars right down the drain.

For the last year we've been working with one of the 3. Delay after delay after delay and redesign after redesign.

Don't think you're EV or hybrid will ever last like your current vehicle's. And nor will they be collectible.

[richard5933]

Originally Posted by gator.bigfoot

Well I hope you can get enough people to think the way you do. With the MSM moving people's minds in the other direction good luck.

....

You mention MSM and my mind went right to thinking of all the other fads that had the same kind of arc.

Guess we'll see over time.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by richard5933

They have a sunset, but as we see happening in Germany right now those sunset dates are still rather flexible. Goal setting is a good thing, but sometimes reality gets in the way.

No politician who wants to keep his/her job will pull the plug on ICE vehicles (yes, pun intended) if they aren't certain a viable alternative exists. It's all well and good to have sunset dates, but if those dates come around and things aren't in place for people to get around like they need to lots of politicians are going to be packing. I'd suspect in some countries something like this could lead to more widespread instability, so I'm guessing that they'll be watching those sunset dates carefully and adjusting as needed.

Minor details. Germany is debating whether to still allow ICE vehicles as long as they don’t burn fossil fuels, only synthetic fuels.

There have been some good studies and articles about the impact of new ICE vehicle sale sunset dates. Essentially, that the bans serve more to send a signal than to restrict sales. The point is that if a manufacturer is planning on selling a significant % of their product with fossil fuel engines by that date, they will be out of business, eg bankrupt, before the bans come into effect.

The auto industry, and the fossil fuel industry, live on volume. Large volume. Assume a 50 % switch to BEV by whatever date you like. Long before the mandate kicks in based on current trends. How will those manufacturers who don’t switch, survive? I suggest that they won’t. They will be DOA. The bans simply encourage them to get with the program. In their own interest. If they don’t, it doesn’t much matter. They won’t be here, for economic reasons.

Toyota has been one of largest auto manufacturers. They have made some very good vehicles. But they bet against BEVs. They had a lead in hybrids and squandered it as EVs rose in popularity. They bet on hydrogen. That was a failure. And now they are playing catch-up. They may fail. Instead of debating the future bans, we could discuss which legacy auto manufacturers will make it. And which won’t. Ford just defined their biggest competitors as Tesla and Nio. (Ni who?) Not BEV competitors, vehicle competitors. That was unimaginable several years ago. GM announced that they are the leader in EVs. Despite their sales history. Which one of those two do you think is not long for this world? The one who is behind and knows it? Or the one that is behind but thinks they are leading?

The debate around the future bans on ICE should be seen in the light of Kodak, BlackBerry, and other similar companies that failed to adapt when technology
change came along. The bans are simply a message from government that they want that industry to survive, and so want them to change with the times. Because organizational inertia is huge. And legacy manufacturers aren’t good at change. The hardest change is for those who have been successful under a different set of assumptions. That former success blocks change.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by richard5933

You mention MSM and my mind went right to thinking of all the other fads that had the same kind of arc.

Guess we'll see over time.

I think it is an error to consider BEVs as a fad. They are simply better vehicles. There are currently issues with range, with charging infrastructure, and especially with towing, but they are still better vehicles overall. Check out the % of people who have switched who plan to go back.

I spent a career working with IC engines, diesel and natural gas. I collected and restored cars. I special ordered manual transmission versions of vehicles. I owned a late model Morgan, a modern incarnation of a 1953 car. I belonged to car clubs. And I won’t own another ICE vehicle. When you lose the car nuts, the motorheads, it’s over. Now it is just a case of watching it play out.