Are Roads Getting Worse?

[Skater]

Much worse. Our politicians strip money away from infrastructure projects to support things like wars abroad, then act like they're doing us a favor by cutting "fat" out of the budget. Erm, infrastructure is NOT fat. They're called arteries for a reason.

And they're not going to get better. I was amazed when I realized a year or two ago that they are only now starting to consider replacing the Bay Bridge near Annapolis, MD; if you're familiar with these bridges, you'll know exactly why I think that's amazing (note, one of the options is not to replace it at all, but to build a new bridge farther south to reduce some load). If you're not familiar with these bridges, but happen to be familiar with Charleston, SC, think of the old Cooper river bridges - the similarities are amazing. For those not familiar with either situation: imagine an old bridge that has three lanes of traffic and no shoulder. Then imagine a second, OLDER bridge that has two lanes of traffic and no shoulder. Oh, and these bridges are several miles long. The backups are legendary, and sorry to everyone in a 10 mile radius if someone has so much as a flat tire.

We have road designs that should have been repaired years ago; my favorite example is I-83 between the Maryland line and York, PA. They built the on-ramps with zero merge area - you just get dumped into traffic. Climbing hills, just after turns, and (my personal favorite) behind the crest of a hill so it's basically close your eyes and hope for the best. Pennsylvania's solution to this dangerous design? Raise the speed limit from 55 mph to 65 mph for most of that stretch.

Add in the idiot drivers...and, you know, I used to enjoy driving.

[GetOutDoors]

Originally Posted by CrawfordGene

But you'll have plenty of civil engineers to built roads someday. Education is also a necessary investment for an advanced society.


Gene

I think most reasonable people realize the role education plays in our society. Equally, we must also realize, like everything else in the world of mother nature, there must be a balance.

For example, if we tax anything and everything for the sake of education, then what jobs will be available for those engineers once they are educated? If we cannot afford to fix roads today, then we won't be able to afford to hire all those engineers to build new ones tomorrow.

... I wonder what kind of lawsuits would be filed if a bus load of students were killed as a result of poorly maintained roads?

I, as a tax payer, do not want stuck with that bill ...

[MrUKToad]

As a recent arrival in this continent, I don't have the history to relate whether the roads are worse than before. I can say, though, that thrashing down the I75 from Detroit to Orlando last summer, the state of that highway was generally pretty good. The exceptions were the whole of the run in Michigan and around Cincinnati, where the roads were potholed and patched and generally pretty crummy.

Europe isn't any better, where the roads can also be poorly maintained, this in an area where taxation, certainly on road usage and gas, is generally much higher than in the US. France has some good roads but they are generally the ones with the tolls, and I don't mean the odd buck or two; these tolls are in the hundreds of dollars on a long run.

Given everyone's dislike of taxation, the road maintenance budgets are unlikely to get any bigger without some major changes in thinking. Will that ever happen? Maybe, maybe not. Until then, we'll just have to ride the bumps and maybe drive a bit slower.

[dznf0g]

My father, a WWII combat veteran once told me when I was a child, "Thank God we live in a country where we have the privelige to pay taxes...and thank God we have the right to pay not one penny more than we have to."

I want to pay taxes, I just want them appropriated and spent wisely and thriftily. Will somebody let me know when that happens?

[Gene]

Originally Posted by dznf0g

My father, a WWII combat veteran once told me when I was a child, "Thank God we live in a country where we have the privelige to pay taxes...and thank God we have the right to pay not one penny more than we have to."

I want to pay taxes, I just want them appropriated and spent wisely and thriftily. Will somebody let me know when that happens?

It will happen when people agree on what it should be spent on and who should be taxed. There has never been a time when full agreement has been reached, but after WWII there was a large consensus on taxes (aggressive progressive taxation; 91% on the highest bracket) and what to spend it on (infrastructure, social safety net, defense). It took two crises to achieve that—the Great Depression and the war (some will add a 3rd, the Cold War).

Maybe it will take another crisis. Many will be seriously hurt by that and that's a terrible cost to pay. Some will say debt is the crisis, but we had more debt proportionally after WWII and we thrived with higher taxes especially on higher incomes. Those high taxes paid off some debt proportionately and built the interstates. The civil rights era realigned politics. Civil liberties for everyone was a big plus, the development of ideologically rigid politics was a big negative. We now have oligarchs spending money to control politics to run the country—no nation thrives with such a system.

Even the mention of political history is so toxic to some, the mods may be upset by this post, but it is just history.

Gene

[Aage]

Up here in Canada, while it's true that lots of roads have deteriorated, in general they still seem pretty good, at least in my home province of Ontario.

When we drive to Québec, the next province, RIGHT at the border, there is a HUGE difference (and it's not a good difference).

We used to make the joke, "Welcome to Québec" when the car started pitching rocking and rolling, but that got old with the years.

ps: Gene, we had no income tax until WWI. How in heck did we get by? Of course, no cars made a difference...

[dznf0g]

Gene, I'm wit ya. But the last time(s) we had big debt, we actually made something. We actually had a manufacturing base. We gotta start making stuff again and stuff that people really want. Apple is good but it's only a start. We need Apple like innovation all throughout the manufacturing sector.

[zlee]

I want to pay taxes, I just want them appropriated and spent wisely and thriftily. Will somebody let me know when that happens?

Maybe when it's possible to elect someone who isn't bought by big money interests?

Ah, politics.

We have an amazing amount of money in this country, more than enough to go around and give everyone lots of services and dare I say it "entitlements". The biggest problem is that the politicians and big corporations all want more than their share of pie. I don't mind when they're about 40-60% dishonest, as we're pretty much rich enough even for that, but they've been getting overly greedy the last half century or so, and the middle and lower classes are really starting to feel the pinch now.

We should be able to have good roads, which, honestly, for the most part we do. We should also be able to have education, which has been steadily getting worse. Big Money interests suck the entire system dry when they're allowed to do so.

Something as simple as the corn growing lobbies or the soybean growing lobbies cause backlash in our medical systems, because those lobbies have prevented science from widely informing our medical systems that the oils cause obesity, diabetes, cancer and other ailments. (Huge source of omega 6s, which we need, but not in the amounts those oils have.)

We've had the possible technology for electric cars for quite some time, but the oil lobbies have kept funds and research for development from being done. Imagine what our world would look like (and how much money we'd have from not being in wars and other such political machinations) if we didn't have interests in the middle east?

Anyway, politics aside, I regularly drive between Colorado and California, and out and about other places less often. The roads got considerably worse about 3 years ago, and now are slowly getting better. This time coming out of California (where I was born), I didn't feel like I had to take life and limb in hand going the speed limit on the roads, and many of the potholes I've noticed the last few years seem to be being repaired.

eta: this was on interstates, though. 101 still sucks.

[Gene]

Originally Posted by Aage

ps: Gene, we had no income tax until WWI. How in heck did we get by? Of course, no cars made a difference...

Sleighs. Now you have snowmobiles.

Who needs roads in Canada?

Gene

[Mike Leary]

We hit a chuckhole the other day coming west toward Phoenix on I-10 that should have blown the right front were it not for my Goodyear 12-ply.I'm thinking of founding a web site called "crummy roads.org"

[redwoodguy]

Bad Roads Due to Bad Construction

In addition to neglect - which affects many of our roads - I have noticed another maybe more disturbing phenomenon: bad construction. Here's an example.

There's a stretch of US 101 NB from Cloverdale to Ukiah which was repaved about 3 years ago. But, you could barely go 50MPH without launching your car into space because of the huge swales built into the paving surface. Ok, then they tore it up in portions again, and repaved once more. Slight improvement, but seriously not much better. I was through there last week and they are working on it again. But still, you can't drive 65MPH in a car. It seems to my eye to be a 100% incompetent paving job. This kind of stuff is very common on the roads I travel in Ca.

So, even when the finally put some money in to the roads, they seem to be getting sub-standard work - e.g. low bidder quality.

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by redwoodguy

Bad Roads Due to Bad Construction

In addition to neglect - which affects many of our roads - I have noticed another maybe more disturbing phenomenon: bad construction. Here's an example.

There's a stretch of US 101 NB from Cloverdale to Ukiah which was repaved about 3 years ago. But, you could barely go 50MPH without launching your car into space because of the huge swales built into the paving surface. Ok, then they tore it up in portions again, and repaved once more. Slight improvement, but seriously not much better. I was through there last week and they are working on it again. But still, you can't drive 65MPH in a car. It seems to my eye to be a 100% incompetent paving job. This kind of stuff is very common on the roads I travel in Ca.

So, even when the finally put some money in to the roads, they seem to be getting sub-standard work - e.g. low bidder quality.

BTW, I'm diggin' those new mirrors in your Avitar!

[triplenet]

I have been driving since 1965 and my opinion is that the roads are in the best condition ever! Plus, cars and trucks are the best ever.

We have taken many road trips, mainly Ark to Neb, Ark to Ottawa, ON. Also west to NM and to CO.

I remember the past family trips from NW Ark to Ontario in the late 50's. Rt 66 was a 4 lane treat, but best remembered as a fond memory. My main memories of those trips were going thru downtown Gary, IN. We did part of the old Rt66 trip to NM in 2010 and will do it again.

Consistency of signage, lane markings, road improvements have made the roads better and safer.

Now, if something could be done with the DWT (driving while texting). More common than DWI, so much more dangerous.

[Gene]

Originally Posted by redwoodguy

So, even when the finally put some money in to the roads, they seem to be getting sub-standard work - e.g. low bidder quality.

Possibly true. US 50 from Grand Junction to Delta, Co., was completely rebuilt and 4-laned from around 2000 and for several years after. It is bumpy and some parts have been repaved. The state and the contractor should have known the Colorado Plateau is clay, some of it very expansive and you have to build for that. No one was watching.

The arrogance of contractors who take enormous time to build anything and make it very hard to get through the area is also difficult to live through.

Gene

[Eric H]

I agree that it doesn't matter what side of the aisle one is on, neither side has kept our infrastructure up to date, now many studies say we need at least 2 TRILLION dollars to get it back up. Study: $2 trillion needed for U.S. infrastructure - The Washington Post
This includes roads, electric grids, water and sewage, etc. Some may think we pay a lot of taxes, but what is that money getting spent on? Not rebuilding our electrical grid and transportation system.... unless it's to transport troops I guess...We have so much debt we can't get anything done...

[redwoodguy]

Originally Posted by CrawfordGene

The arrogance of contractors who take enormous time to build anything and make it very hard to get through the area is also difficult to live through.

Gene

Oh brother! That's whole 'nother thing. I can't believe how slow some of these projects go. Sometimes you drive by and there will be 6 workers on a 8 mile long project. They put those K-rails up and they are there for years on end.

[redwoodguy]

Originally Posted by triplenet

I have been driving since 1965 and my opinion is that the roads are in the best condition ever! Plus, cars and trucks are the best ever.

.

Cool. It is good to hear that opinion from someone with so much experience! Thanks!

[redwoodguy]

Originally Posted by dznf0g

BTW, I'm diggin' those new mirrors in your Avitar!

Me too! The recommendations I get around here are awesome!

[TRfour]

Originally Posted by Mike Leary

We hit a chuckhole the other day coming west toward Phoenix on I-10 that should have blown the right front were it not for my Goodyear 12-ply.I'm thinking of founding a web site called "crummy roads.org"

It's the bridges that scare me more!!!! ... Kinda puts pot holes in a hole different perspective, at least where I come from!!!! (Do Not Blink) while out and about!

[vinstream]

In Colorado, a chemical called "Mag Chloride" is sprayed on the roads so the the freezing point of the road way changes to a much lower point; However, the roads and more so the bridges are taking a pounding! This liquid salt is eating away the steel bridges at an alarming rate! It also pays havoc on concrete, not to mention what it does to the underside of cars! I took my T.V. to the shop because I heard a funny noise in the front-end, the problem was drive train seal failed due to... you guessed it "MAG CHLORIDE" ... My Mechanic stated that 2 out of 5 cars he works on are plagued with mass amounts of corrosion and seals failing due to this stuff!
The purpose of this stuff is to make the roads safer to drive on in cold winter conditions, I believe that its simply not worth the mass destruction on the bridges, roadways, and the safety of your vehicle, just so people can travel 5 to 10 mph faster!

Do other states uses this chemical and if so do you see the damage it is causing? It seams "TO ME" that this stuff should be ban!!!