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Old 07-15-2016, 05:40 AM   #21
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2003 25' Classic
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Thumbs up Welcome Aboard....

Priorities.....

First, get a capable, safe & comfortable rig that you LIKE, any modern TV will get better MPG's than 10 yrs ago.

When new, our first Burb got 10mpg towing, I did all kinds of mods & got it to 12.5, it took 165k to amortize the cost....I no longer fret the mpg's.

Bob
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Old 07-21-2016, 08:52 PM   #22
Ldytraveller
 
1998 34' Excella 1000
1990 29' Airstream 290
Algonquin Highlands , Ontario
Join Date: Nov 2015
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Best Towing Advice - Can Am, London, Ont. Canada

Quote:
Originally Posted by alphamale49 View Post
I just bought a brand new 2017 27 foot AS Serenity. New to RVing. I am not even buying a TV until I live in the AS for a while and understand what kind of hitch, etc I need. I'll have the AS towed around by professionals until then.
We are in our 3rd yr of RVing. The best thing we ever did was to consult Andy Thompson of Can Am RV in London Ontario, Canada. He is "the" expert in tow set ups. He writes articles on the subject for RV magazines. He has many American customers who bring their rigs to him for proper set up. Do yourself a favour and have a conversation with him before you make any definite decisions.
www.CanAmRV.ca 1 866 226 2678.

Hope you learn to love AS RVing as much as we do.
Cheers,
Carolyn & Ross Pawson
WBCC # 6201
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Old 07-24-2016, 09:08 AM   #23
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Fort Worth , Texas
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Advice on tow vehicle with best gas mileage

Starting from scratch is the best approach as the OP is doing. Yes, a turbocharged Diesel will be best on fuel, but that shouldn't be the only consideration as to "economy". Low initial purchase price and low operating cost go hand in hand.

But, first, one needs to know the annual cost for all miles travelled in a year. AAA and EDMUNDS both have calculators. Fuel is less than half, on average.

Modifying how one drives the single or multiple family vehicles during the year will have the greatest impact. 90% of us go to 90% of the same places 90% of the time. That's ripe for combining multiple trips into one. Avoiding cold starts. And then using a no left turn routing after going to the farthest point from the house via freeway (if possible). Use the warmed up vehicle to work back towards the house. On a Saturday. And drive not at all on Sunday.

I took the challenge from an engineer about raising my already very good town mpg. With the above and some improved technique, I increased town mpg by over 20%. That was enough that, extrapolated from that 1100-miles over the course of a year -- and at the then current price of diesel -- I just "paid" for 5000-miles of free RV travel with my rig.

In the same vein, on road operation is best controlled by planning all stops in advance. Gentler terrain, less traffic, and so forth (where FE is the overriding concern). Travel speeds of 58-63/mph are best for FE as well as safety. In a 300-350/mile day (longer is strongly contraindicated), traveling faster is of no benefit time wise. No lane changing or passing, remaining carefully lane centered, etc. A break every two hours. Fuel stops on same side of road travel. Combined meal and fuel, etc.

A bit of discipline goes a VERY long way. New habits. What one winds up with is (important) the ability to predict fuel cost for a given trip. This means recording all gallons and all miles. Year round. Any type of operation.

The best TV is the one which best suits DD duties AND can tow the trailer. Preferably, with fully independent suspension plus rack & pinion steering, as these specs trump all others for safe handling, steering and braking, solo or towing.

FE has its place, but NOT outside of the annual transportation budget.

Overall, towing one of these trailers is a 40% drop in FE from solo where the climate, terrain, speed and vehicle load is otherwise the same. Trends downward from there to 50%, but smarter choices in vehicle spec and operator training can move it towards (but not all the way) towards 30%.

MPG is a game of tenths. Whatever the combined rig spec, there is room for improvement afterwards (hitch, brakes, align, etc; as well as smarter operation).
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Old 09-17-2016, 03:54 PM   #24
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2015 28' International
Ofallon , Missouri
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Thumbs down Armada

I have a Nissan Armada with tow package rated for 9000lbs. I pull a 28' AS. My target speed is 63-65 using tow mode; any less and the torque drops to where it downshifts a lot; any faster and you're just burning gas; and 65 is safer than 80 imho. 63-65 turns out to be about 2200 rpm in tow mode.

Two big factors on mileage are the terrain (flat or mountains) and how fast you drive.

We have just competed a 3,600 mi trip from Seattle to St Louis in all kinds of terrain. I get almost 12 in mostly flat terrain, 10-11 in mountains / high altitude where you're in 3rd a lot with 3000-3500 rpm. Average for entire trip 11.5.
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Old 09-18-2016, 04:08 AM   #25
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2015 27' FB International
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowmover View Post
Starting from scratch is the best approach as the OP is doing. Yes, a turbocharged Diesel will be best on fuel, but that shouldn't be the only consideration as to "economy". Low initial purchase price and low operating cost go hand in hand.

But, first, one needs to know the annual cost for all miles travelled in a year. AAA and EDMUNDS both have calculators. Fuel is less than half, on average.

Modifying how one drives the single or multiple family vehicles during the year will have the greatest impact. 90% of us go to 90% of the same places 90% of the time. That's ripe for combining multiple trips into one. Avoiding cold starts. And then using a no left turn routing after going to the farthest point from the house via freeway (if possible). Use the warmed up vehicle to work back towards the house. On a Saturday. And drive not at all on Sunday.

I took the challenge from an engineer about raising my already very good town mpg. With the above and some improved technique, I increased town mpg by over 20%. That was enough that, extrapolated from that 1100-miles over the course of a year -- and at the then current price of diesel -- I just "paid" for 5000-miles of free RV travel with my rig.

In the same vein, on road operation is best controlled by planning all stops in advance. Gentler terrain, less traffic, and so forth (where FE is the overriding concern). Travel speeds of 58-63/mph are best for FE as well as safety. In a 300-350/mile day (longer is strongly contraindicated), traveling faster is of no benefit time wise. No lane changing or passing, remaining carefully lane centered, etc. A break every two hours. Fuel stops on same side of road travel. Combined meal and fuel, etc.

A bit of discipline goes a VERY long way. New habits. What one winds up with is (important) the ability to predict fuel cost for a given trip. This means recording all gallons and all miles. Year round. Any type of operation.

The best TV is the one which best suits DD duties AND can tow the trailer. Preferably, with fully independent suspension plus rack & pinion steering, as these specs trump all others for safe handling, steering and braking, solo or towing.

FE has its place, but NOT outside of the annual transportation budget.

Overall, towing one of these trailers is a 40% drop in FE from solo where the climate, terrain, speed and vehicle load is otherwise the same. Trends downward from there to 50%, but smarter choices in vehicle spec and operator training can move it towards (but not all the way) towards 30%.

MPG is a game of tenths. Whatever the combined rig spec, there is room for improvement afterwards (hitch, brakes, align, etc; as well as smarter operation).
very well explained. Discipline while driving is everything...I would NEVER get the same FE when not in cruise control for example.
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Old 09-18-2016, 10:48 PM   #26
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Steve 6919 has a point. Check out the future:

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/tesla-use...03332623.html?
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Old 09-18-2016, 11:37 PM   #27
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1999 34' AS.. Close to 10,000 pounds (scale weight).
2012 Chevy Silverado crew cab Duramax 2500HD, 4x4.

Duramax alone, 12 MPG when in "REGEN", 18-20 MPG when running properly.
Dmax and AS... 10-12 MPG..as low as 9MPG using a grocery store brand (big diesels fill up a lot there..so I thought I was ok)

You might think gas power is better... Maybe for in town frequent start and stop..

Soapbox warning... Skip to end or on to next post.

Our Dmax HATES biodiesel. Yes, hates. MPG drops over 2MPG when running close to 5% bio... More when diesel is diluted further with more "bio"...

I once filled up at a major truck stop and towing the AS, I was hitting 14-15 and the "regen" cycles diminished.

I have little faith that diesel is consistent across refills. This is a known issue in the Marine Towing industry and petro exploration. While there are to many factors affecting the "fuel use" across numerous tows, you should see the gunk some suppliers pump... I have seen that in marine vessel inspections (marine surveyors). Also the number of fuel filters some loads clog up... Really inconsistent.

In Texas the governmental arm monitoring fuel quality says "if you want the fuel you pay for, use dispensers with separate hoses"... �� Yup.. My MC used less than 5 gallons to fill on an average fuel stop and I noticed varying performance changes. When I asked the government they said "oh, we pump at least 5 gallons on the single hose dispensers befor we sample.... Because not doing that causes varying test results due to mixing of the fuel grades. ".

Climbing off soapbox...

The Dmax is good for doing the job... All day long...never a Heat, handling or power issue. My sons father in law has same truck in gas and 2x4... Gets 6-7MPG towing similar weight trailer at 60-65..
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Old 09-25-2016, 10:30 PM   #28
Vintage Kin
 
Fort Worth , Texas
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Advice on tow vehicle with best gas mileage

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkottum View Post
Our Ram 1500 Ecodiesel gets 16-17 pulling our Airstream 25 FC in normal conditions. Most of our driving is without the Airstream where it delvers 28-29 mpg on the highway. It is the 8-speed transmission that makes the complete power train here, and the 3.92 axle gears work well with a mid-size Airstream.

The are several SUV's with turbodiesel engines in the 3.0 liter range that deliver great economy and the owners are quite happy with them towing their Airstreams.

As an aside, have you ever run the same route solo and then hitched where the truck weighs the same but for the TW? This would be the accurate percentage penalty in fuel consumption. 40% is a given no matter TV spec (1966 or 2016), but you "should" be less than this given the same route and travel speed.

Sure would be interested to see it if you ever did the experiment. I'll do it some point, and would be interested in any other TD truck pulling one of our trailer types does it. But especially the ED. The one tons push too much mass. The 3.OL ED "ought" to be the champ in least penalty.

As it stands, it's barely above what my four plus ton truck can do solo, and not really higher than my 65' 17k-lb rig sees in the South Central US.
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Old 09-25-2016, 11:02 PM   #29
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Forgot to add two things:


1) A test should be at the same travel speed. (I'd sure recommend the use of cruise control for back to back consistency).

2) I run at 58/9-mph. I currently sit on a 40% towing penalty (both my vehicles need some TLC to bring to best performance).

Granted, the half ton versus one ton and respective trailers might be said to be in different classes (I'm at near 65' combined and over 17000 in weight), but the thread topic covers both.
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Old 09-28-2016, 04:43 PM   #30
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I have seen pictures of an Airstrem being towed by a bicycle and I would think that is the best mileage. 😉


"It's supposed to be a challenge, that's why they call it a shortcut. If it was easy it would just be 'the way'." ~ Rubin, "Road Trip"
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Old 09-28-2016, 05:48 PM   #31
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Alexandria Alexandria , Virginia
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- TV: 2016 RAM 3500 Crew Cab 4x4 SRW w/ 6.7L Cummins Turbo Diesel
... not really broken-in yet (less than 5K miles) ...
- Trailer: 2017 Classic 30'
- Conditions: Flat-land highways, basically around 500' elevation (mean)
- Average Speed: 65mph (the embedded photo shows the dash with 56mph average speed ... this includes two separate 5-minute idles to let the turbo's cool down at rest stops and explains why the average speed doesn't indicate ~65mph)
- Averaged 15 mpg throughout this small journey through the flatlands ...
- Qualifiers: there was generally little to no traffic and we moved at speed throughout ... I realize this small snapshot is meaningless, but, it is indicative of what we saw on flat the highways between NJ and VA throughout our towing. Although we also drove considerable mileage without the TV connected (these statistics with photo ONLY include highway mileage with the trailer connected).

If I didn't want a big boat also, a 2500 would have been a much more comfortable ride than our 3500. The 3500 without a payload/towed-trailer is a ridiculously stiff and jarring ride ... but with the load, it really smooths out. I'd imagine the 2500, under load, would ride much like a 1500 empty. Sweet.

Also, I very, very much appreciated the "automatic" exhaust brake mode on our TV... I understand there are many who enjoy towing with gas engines, but for me, given my little experience as a "newbie," I certainly appreciate the extra braking the turbo diesel provides--even if only to maintain a given speed on a descent without significant engine RPM creep.

Good luck with your decision!
Rich
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Old 09-28-2016, 07:27 PM   #32
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Did almost 10000 miles this summer, Ontario to West coast and back. Lots in the mountains, 2016 Duramax in front of a 27ft International.
The average mileage was 13mpg for the whole trip. I was really impressed and most days we towed at 55 to 70 mph.
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